Preditor Modifications?

Preditor Modifications? (Full Version)

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shmo46 -> Preditor Modifications? (3/2/2002 10:17:01 PM)
Just got started in B open combat last week. What a blast! I lost my wooden plane in the first round, but i am hooked. Decided to get a couple EPP Preditors for the next meet. Cool little kit. Looks like a wild flyer. The questions i have are: Would a longer fin, or wing tip do das make it easyer or better? Lightening holes or not? Ultra cote or Econocote? 4 Oz tank or 6? Hitech 85MG or 225MG? Goop or ? Thicker plastic for home plate needed? Magnum 28 or MVVS 26 combat? or? opinions? Shmo

Slocum -> Preditor and Endro (3/4/2002 9:16:34 AM)
I have both a Preditor and an Endro. In the instructions they say to use only Ultracoat and I have been happy on both birds. They are the only planes I have flown into the ground at full throtle and had up in the air minutes later! I built both acording to plan. Check out crash pictures Here: [URL=http://www.poseyflyers.com/sale/sale.htm]Crash Pictures[/URL]

GalenB -> Preditor Modifications? (3/6/2002 11:57:14 AM)
I just finished my Predator and flew it this past week end. I have an O.S. .25FX on mine and it flies great! It's very fast and do not exceed the recommended 3/16" elevator throw. I had mine set at 5/16" and it would snap out of a loop. My only suggestions are to pre-stage the components to set the CG before gluing everything in. Even after putting the Rx and tha battery just behind the front brace my engine ended up at the very end of the mounting beams... I built mine pretty much per the instructions. I did cut out the squares of foam shown in the instructions to increase roll rate, and I used the bi-directional tape all the way across the top of the wing instead of stopping at 2/3rds span. Mine is very stiff and with 1/2" of elevator thow the roll rate is very fast. I can hand launch mine myself as it pretty much flies out of your hand when you release it. Cheers! Galen

shmo46 -> Preditor Modifications? (3/6/2002 4:09:28 PM)
Nice web site Rslocum! Full throtle into the ground and not smashed all to heck? definately the plane for me! Looks like you guys are big Morris fans. Have seen the Balsanova, but none of the others. Just ordered the Top cap. Hopefully it will not end up in a website crash page! Tempted to try the MVVS49 with it. Any good? Galen, Thanks for the heads up on ballance and control limits. Just started the first preditor today. Should be able to try it this weekend!

GalenB -> Preditor Modifications? (3/6/2002 11:08:19 PM)
To answer the original questions: I used HS-225MG servos. The guys at TufFlight convinced me they we necessary... I used an Expert SL-300 for the throttle since I had it lying around. I did build the throttle pushrod out of two rods connected via a fuel tubing sleeve... I used both Shoe Goo and Goop. I also used UltraCote and would recommend that you do too. I went to the trouble to find the 3M bi-directional strapping tape. It can be ordered online or bought at your local Staples if you have one. As stated I did the lightening holes, but do not think I would recommend it. It was a time consuming PIA... I like the roll rate, but am unsure about my crashworthiness now... I used a 6 oz. Hayes fuel tank. I think a 4 oz. might be sufficient for actual combat as I get 20+ minute flights at half throttle now. I have not flown mine in combat and do not know how much full throttle yanking and banking are involved, but I can guess there will be a lot. How long does an average battle last? I made no changes to the fin or the home plate. Cheers! Galen

shmo46 -> Preditor Modifications? (3/7/2002 3:22:43 AM)
Hi Galen, I think i will take your advice on the 225's, ultracoat, and not cuting any foam that i don't have to. If memory serves, Combat is 5 minutes, starting and pre combat flight goes 90 seconds, so you need fuel for about 7 minutes. Decided to check another plane using a magnum 28 and 6 OZ tank. I ran pretty rich (Peak - 1400) and got 10 minutes on the ground @ full throtle. So under the same conditions i should get 6.6 minutes out of the 4 ounce, Pobably will work if keep the throtle down before combat starts, and of course running a little leaner, but with foaming the manual warned about, it is just a little close for comfort, besides, 20 minute half throtle practice flights sound good. well i guess it is time to just get this done, and start chasing tail! :D Thanks, Joe Shmo

Dave McDonald -> Preditor Modifcations (3/7/2002 10:21:39 AM)
Shmo, IMHO, adding wingtips or changing the fin isn't worth the trouble. Originally I was going to put lightening holes in my Predator, but forgot to cut them out before covering it. In hindsight, I'm glad they aren't cut out because I'm not so sure it would have survived through several midairs, and one radio failure. I would definitely use Ultra cote instead of Econokote. I use a 6oz tank with an OS 40FP. That gives enough time to get airborne, fly 5 minutes of combat, and still have enough fuel to setup the landing approach. Besides, there's no rule that says you can't use a partially full 6oz tank.......but it sure it tough to put 6oz in a 4oz tank! Hitech 85MG or 225MG? No experience with either one so I won't guess. But avoid using sloppy servos or your chances of having elevon flutter will go way up! I used Futaba S-148 servos with the LDM ball bearing conversion on the elevons. So far, no flutter....even during full power hot pursuit dives. This was my first experience with using Goop, and I was impressed. I would recommend giving it a try. In my area, K-Mart has it. Thicker plastic for home plate needed? Nope. It works perfectly as designed. Magnum 28 or MVVS 26 combat? Can't help you here. I opted for an OS 40FP instead. Opinions? The Predator is an extremely rugged combat design that flys well. But I deviated from the instructions and moved my balance point back to 8 5/8" from the hingeline, and added 2 degrees of downthrust to the engine to improve the flying characteristics. For additional details about my Predator, go here: http://mypage.yhti.net/~dmcdnld/predator.htm

littlepiston -> Preditor Modifications? (3/10/2002 10:20:22 AM)
were can i get one?

shmo46 -> Preditor Modifications? (3/10/2002 10:33:46 AM)
Hey Little, Try [url]www.tufflight.com[/url] or your LHS can order them.

littlepiston -> Preditor Modifications? (3/10/2002 10:35:37 AM)
did not work! Forbidden You don't have permission to access / on this server. Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Apache/1.3.22 Server at [url]www.tufflight.com[/url] Port 80

Slocum -> Try again later (3/10/2002 10:39:24 AM)
It looks like the server is fubar. Check back in a day or two. That is the right address.

littlepiston -> Preditor Modifications? (3/10/2002 10:40:37 AM)
ok thank you

FlyingGreg -> Preditor Modifications? (3/20/2002 10:08:36 PM)
Hey Shmo: You will love the Predator. I have two that have survived many combat events and high speed encounters with mother earth with no lasting damage--and a few of the mid-airs have been spectacular. I built mine according to the plan, 225 MG servos and 6 ounce tank. Even with the throttle servo protector suggested by Tufflight, I stripped my servo during an crash and since it is glued in, etc. was not able to easily replace. My point is not to skimp on the throttle servo. I detracted from the plan by covering one of my birds with rip stop nylon prior to Ultracote--made it very strong with little weight gain. I fly one with a Norvell .25 plain bearing that really cooks and the other with a TT Pro-.25 that is adequate, but not really a barn burner. I tried wing plates. Looked like a Clingon fighter, but really didn't role any faster. The four ounce tank will provide enough run time for a normal five minute heat, but the problem is, it's hard to get good fuel draw of the entire tank--expecially when you are banking and yanking in combat. I am trying a 5.5 oz Tetra bladder tank this year that the pylon guys use. I moved the 6 oz tank forward, drilled a couple of holes in the home plate and wire tied the tank right behind the engine. I needed the nose weight anyway so it has worked well. I agree with the person that recommended laying out the servos, battery and receiver prior to cutting holes for them. Both my Predators came out tail heavy by installing the equipment as shown on the drawings. As for larger fin, I started that way but am now flying both with a fin that is smaller than the one shown with no adverse effects. The guys I fly combat with are flying T-Rex's and Bat Tricks--both extremely durable and highly specialized combat ships, but I would pit the Predator with any of them with respect to performance and durability. Good luck!

shmo46 -> Preditor Modifications? (3/21/2002 5:46:14 AM)
Thanks Greg, Rip stop sounds like a great idea. Turns out i have some Icarex (lightest ripstop) sitting in my closet! Do you have to spray the rip stop with 3M 77 before attaching the ultracote? Unfortunatly i did skimp on the throtle servo thinking the tube link would protect it enough. I am wondering if there is a better way to do the throttle linkage. Maybe a shorter length of fuel tube? Dubro servo saver do das? Maybe i'l come up with something and have something to contribute back to this thread. Almost done with the first one. Looking forward to trying this out this weekend! Thanks again, Joe

Slocum -> Throttle servo (3/21/2002 5:52:16 AM)
Don�t over engineer the throttle servo. If the fuel line is too long it won�t separate. Separation on impact is GOOD!

Raymond LeFlyr -> Preditor Modifications? (3/22/2002 3:02:16 AM)
I have never mastered the underhand launch for 1/12 scale models and it looks like the Predator would have to be launched that way. Is there some secret I don't know? Would it be uncool to put something on the bottom so that I could launch it "overhead"?

lpanetta -> Preditor Modifications? (3/22/2002 3:45:53 AM)
Raymond Don't worry about the underhanded launch. This plane has so much power it will fly out of your hand with a very gentle toss. I hold my TX in my right hand and hold the Predator in my left hand down by my knee. I give it a slightly nose up, gently toss and it is flying immediately. I love this model, what a great flying airplane! I built the plane as per the Tufflight directions. I also had to put the engine pretty far out on the rails to balance properly. I run the OS 25FX with a 9 x 4 APC prop. Lawrence

GalenB -> Preditor Modifications? (3/22/2002 5:16:24 AM)
My Predator flies out of my hand using an underhand toss just as Lawrence's does. It's not a problem... Cheers! Galen

Dave McDonald -> Handlaunching a Predator is a piece of cake! (3/22/2002 6:51:58 AM)
Ray, I agree with Lawrence and Galen. Under-handlaunching a Predator is easy. You basically just hold it out in front of you, and give it a gentle push at a slightly upward angle. With the light wingloading, it only has to travel a few feet before it's flying. In fact, with my 40FP, I launch it at about 2/3 throttle. And if you do happen to mess up the launch.....I seriously doubt that it would damage your Predator. They are rugged!!!

FlyingGreg -> Preditor Modifications? (3/22/2002 11:41:48 PM)
I have two Predators. One with a Norvel .25 that is very easy to launch since the Norvel is so powerful. The other has a TT Pro.25 without the awsome power of the Norvel and takes a little more care. In a recent B combat event, Rick Fraley attempted to launch for me using the discuss throw method. We had a strong wind directly in the launch direction which made launching anything on that day a challenge. Anyway, Rick gives it a good toss, except nose was pointing up. Actually did 3/4 of a torque roll about 2 feet off the deck--crowd went wild! We had several skip launches that day as well. Its amazing how those Predators would skip off the asphalt runway and keep running.

Wteagle103 -> Predator (3/23/2002 9:45:23 PM)
I reccommend staying away from using MVVS 26 combat engine. I had a Norvel 25bb on mine, then I switched to MVVS. The hype about MVVS having more power, well I did not see it. There was no performance increase. The performance actually decreased because of weight increase. I ended up pulling the MVVS off and putting the Norvel back on.

TT2 -> Preditor Modifications? (3/26/2002 5:15:42 AM)
>>Would a longer fin, or wing tip do das make it easyer or better?<< The stock fin works fine, but nobody said you can't experiment! I would keep as much weight off of the wingtips as possible for better roll rate. >>Lightening holes or not?<< EPP is pretty light (1.3 lbs per cu. ft.), so the amount of weight savings IMO wouldn't be worth the added effort or the sacrifice in strength. >>Ultra cote or Econocote?<< I used Ultracote on my Predator. I thought about trying rip-stop nylon or maybe Micafilm (since I have some laying around). I might experiment on some scrap EPP and see what happens. >>4 Oz tank or 6?<< I used a Hayes 6 oz. tank with a Magnum .28xl and could fly FOREVER. 4 oz would easily last 8 minutes which is all you really need. >>Hitech 85MG or 225MG?<< DEFINITELY 225MG, and maybe 85MG for throttle. >>Goop or ?<< I used Goop on my first Predator. I've been experimenting with polyurethane glue (Probond, Gorrilla glue, etc.) with outstanding results bonding EPP to Lexan, balsa, my worktable (oops!), etc. I'm sure poly glue is much lighter and you don't have to worry about total coverage since it will 'foam' out to fill up the voids as it cures. It sands well unlike goop which does not sand at all. >>Thicker plastic for home plate needed?<< Several full-speed-straight-into-the-ground crashes with mine say no...just have a hefty supply of nylon bolts and nuts. The kit comes with steel nuts...switching these to nylon is a very easy way to save weight. >>Magnum 28 or MVVS 26 combat? or?<< I've been torturing my Magnum .28xl with 20% Byrons 2000 car fuel with a little castor mixed in, and it runs like a swiss watch. I've probably got three gallons through it, and it just keeps getting stronger. Very reliable and powerful engine, and you can't beat the price. I've also got a bushed Norvel .25 on a Sickle...and those engines are SCREAMERS with a MA 9x4 prop mine was hitting 16,700-16,800 rpm! Watch them fingers! I can't remember what the .28xl tached out at, but I always used APC 9.5 x 4.5 (I think...I'll have to look) with great results. Anyway, I think the Magnum is probably a little more powerful than the Norvel, less finicky, more durable, and a few oz heavier. I flew against a guy (who went on to be the national Open B 2000 champ) that ran a MVVS 26 on a Predator. That combination was bad-ass without a doubt. I don't know if the engine was modified or not, but it probably was. If you're not competing on a national level, the Magnum will be fine. If you are, forget about the MVVS and buy the Jett 30! -Tom Needless to say, it was easy to SEE! [IMG]http://home.centurytel.net/rcstuff/Predator02.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://home.centurytel.net/rcstuff/Predator03.jpg[/IMG]

catboater -> First flight impressions (3/31/2002 9:02:12 AM)
Flew mine for the first time today with Galen and had a blast. Flys wayyyyyyyy better than I thought it would. Mine is a dog when compared with some of the set-ups I've read about in this thread. I'm running an OS .25 FP with some left over 5%N-25% castor c/l fuel but it still flys great. First launch didn't work out well but a new prop and I was in the air on the next try. I did lawn dart it once at full throttle and only needed a new prop and one new nylon bolt. I don't like Ultracoat on foam though. No matter what I did I couldn't keep it from wrinkling, but on a combat plane, who cares?! I went cheap on the servo's too, Tower Hobby for the elevons and an 825 for the throttle. This is my first combat bird so I skimped not knowing if I'd like it. I do! IMHO it was a PIA to build. Not a simple weekend project as advertised, especially if you've got a family. Get one. You won't be dissapointed with it once it's in the air!

shmo46 -> Preditor Modifications? (3/31/2002 11:33:41 AM)
Hey guys, Thanks for all the great input! My first preditor turned out great! Was one heck of a handfull before getting the trim and throws set, but once it was dialed in, it was a dream. Just flies out of my hand like it knows what i want it to do. Ended up with the 6OZ tank, Magnum 28 with 9X6, 270 mAh bat, High tech 85 and 225MG servos, Ultra coat over Icarex rip stop, balance point at 8.5 inches, .25 inch elevator throw, .35 inch aileron throw, and about 40% exponential. I have a second kit to build in the next week or so, gona give it all the same treatment, except i'l find some regular weight Rip-stop covering and and maybe try the 4 ounce tank. The fuel tube throtle link gave me a bit of trouble shutting down for landing, so i think i will try using electrical spade or bullet conectors so the pushrods can't slide around when fuel gets in the joint. Thanks again, Shmo

FlyingGreg -> Preditor Modifications? (4/3/2002 1:12:15 AM)
TT: That is probably the best looking Predator I have ever seen. I have two that have been run through the mill.

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