RE: Lipo VS A123  
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RE: Lipo VS A123 - 1/8/2008 11:37:07 PM   
mightynova63


 

Posts: 7
Joined: 1/8/2008
From: Milpitas, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Black & Deccker vpx battery has 2 of the new A123 1100mah 17mm battery's in it (17.88 batt bat+charger 34.63 at walmart)

(in reply to dick Hanson)
       Post #: 26

RE: Lipo VS A123 - 1/9/2008 7:03:48 PM   
fnsooner


 

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/9/2008
From: , OK, USA
Status: offline 		Excuse me for crashing this thread, but there's alot of info here and thought it would be good place to
ask a couple of questions about the A123 batteries.

I bought a couple of Black and Decker vpx tools. The charging time for the battery packs are 5 to 6 hours. From reading through
several of these threads, I am wondering why so long? One hour charges would be great.

Is the only restriction to getting one hour charging times, Black and Decker?


It also seems like the only advantage Lipo's have, is the top end speeds.
So my question is- If A123 Systems added a little more on top of each cell and produced 3.6V, would the top end
advantage of the Lipo batteries disapear?


This is interesting http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/1/6/214231/3451 Be sure and read the comments.

Thanks




(in reply to mightynova63)
       Post #: 27

RE: Lipo VS A123 - 1/9/2008 7:19:47 PM   
Red Scholefield



Posts: 5042
Joined: 12/8/2001
From: Newberry, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I've made up a 4S pack using the VPX Black & Decker packs and charge them on the CellPro at 3 amps. No problems so far. They make a decent replacement for a 3S2100 LiPo, a bit shorter run time, but you can recharge in 20 minutes.

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Red S.
AMA 951 Leader Member
Disclaimer: What I have written here are my thoughts and in no manner shape or form reflect the views of RCU

(in reply to fnsooner)
       Post #: 28

RE: Lipo VS A123 - 1/10/2008 12:56:58 AM   
everydayflyer



Posts: 954
Joined: 8/21/2005
From: Buchanan, GA, USA
Status: offline 		I have no idea why B&D decided to supply such a slow charger as guess it was cheaper to make.
I charge 4S VPX packs at 5A(max. recommended by A123 Racing) in approx. 12 minutes and I have charged them at 10A in approx. 7 minutes . I charged one 4S pack at 10A over 50 times with no noticeable lost of capacity or performance.
Battery chemistry determines voltage so they can not just put some more on top.


Charles

(in reply to fnsooner)
       Post #: 29

RE: Lipo VS A123 - 1/10/2008 11:36:25 PM   
mightynova63


 

Posts: 7
Joined: 1/8/2008
From: Milpitas, CA, USA
Status: offline 		The B&D charger only charges at like 230mah so less then a 1/4 amp

everdayflyer what are you charging with and what balance

(in reply to everydayflyer)
       Post #: 30

RE: Lipo VS A123 - 1/10/2008 11:45:29 PM   
mightynova63


 

Posts: 7
Joined: 1/8/2008
From: Milpitas, CA, USA
Status: offline 		sorry everdayflyer you told me that . im new to all this balancing so i need some help if i were to run 2s parallel (1100mah) i will get 3.3v 2200mah and then run them in series to 2s parallel for a total of 6.6 at 2200mah for a total of 4s how would i wire my balancer

(in reply to mightynova63)
       Post #: 31

RE: Lipo VS A123 - 1/11/2008 2:07:43 AM   
everydayflyer



Posts: 954
Joined: 8/21/2005
From: Buchanan, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Nonimal voltage per cell is 3.3 so 2s is 6.6V and 4s 13.2. 2S2P is 6.6V 2200 mAh.

How you connect for your charger / balancer depends on the brand and number of cell in series and how they are connected in parallel if they are paralleled.

You really need to first really understand series and parallel. Next you need drawing for you balancer showing connections for 2,3,4 cell packs.


quote:

everdayflyer what are you charging with and what balance


Depends on the pack size. I have many chargers and balancers.
My favoite factory charger balancer is the Thunder power TP1010C charger and TP-210V Smart Balancer combo.

My most often used charger is for 3S 2300 pack only and is a homemade one. I call it a Zip charger as it is really mostly a length of Zip(lamp) cord.


Charles

(in reply to mightynova63)
       Post #: 32

RE: Lipo VS A123 - 1/11/2008 10:07:29 PM   
cyclops2


 

Posts: 2003
Joined: 12/23/2005
From: Frenchtown, NJ, USA
Status: offline

fnsooner.

All my 4 packs charged in about 1 hour. You may have a bad pack or charger.

Rich

(in reply to everydayflyer)
       Post #: 33

RE: Lipo VS A123 - 1/12/2008 5:00:55 PM   
fnsooner


 

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/9/2008
From: , OK, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyclops2



fnsooner.

All my 4 packs charged in about 1 hour. You may have a bad pack or charger.

Rich


Hmmm,
I'll have to look into that. Are you using the VPX charger?
I haven't actually timed it yet. The manual says 5-6 hours and it was definitely at least three hours to charge mine.

I have used the screwdriver alot this week. I will charge it and see what happens.

These chargers daisy chain to each other(indefinitely I guess). This may also be why such a wimpy charger.

Everydayflyer
Thanks,
The reason I asked about adding a little on top to get 3.6v, was that I was trying to figure out why the 3.3v. Isn't 3.6v kind of the standard. I see alot of people trying to adapt from 3.6v.





< Message edited by fnsooner -- 1/12/2008 5:01:30 PM >

(in reply to cyclops2)
       Post #: 34

RE: Lipo VS A123 - 1/15/2008 2:44:27 AM   
everydayflyer



Posts: 954
Joined: 8/21/2005
From: Buchanan, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Everydayflyer
Thanks,
The reason I asked about adding a little on top to get 3.6v, was that I was trying to figure out why the 3.3v. Isn't 3.6v kind of the standard. I see alot of people trying to adapt from 3.6v.


Well like I posted cell voltage is determined by makeup (chemistry) and not by size. Size determins capacity.

Battery cell voltage is listed as nonimal voltage. Ni is 1.2 per cell but in fact can be 1.45 fully charged and 0.9 is considered empty so 3 cells could be 3.6 / 4.35 or 2.7.

A single A123 cell is considered charged at 3.6 but settles to 3.45 and is considered empty at 2.

How strang is it that 2300 A123 / DeWalts are loisted as 10 cell -36 v (3.6 per cell ) while VPX are listed at 7 volts for two cell (3.5 per cell) which is really closer to actual.

Most cordless power tools are listed at 1.2 volts per cell. 7.2,8.4......12,14.4,18,24,.
Guess if DeWalts were listed as 35 it would sound less powerful to many.

A LiPoly is fully charged at 4.2 and empty at 3.0 but should not be discharged below 3.7-3.8 no load.

A lead acid is nonimal 2.0 but a 6 cell 12 volta car battery is fully charged at 12.6 and empty at 12. They are often charged to approx. 14.5 and are empty at 10.5 under load.

Charles

(in reply to fnsooner)
       Post #: 35

RE: Lipo VS A123 - 1/15/2008 6:37:09 PM   
fnsooner


 

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/9/2008
From: , OK, USA
Status: offline 		EDF
you da man.
Thanks

(in reply to everydayflyer)
       Post #: 36

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