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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/29/2012 4:40 AM   
Kmot



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Status: offline 		20x10 three blade seems like a lot of prop for this engine, but I am not sure about that.

5 glow plugs together draw a lot of amps. A 4000 mAh battery might be okay for a couple of starts but I do not think it would last long if the plugs are hot all the time.

If weight is critical, you could swap that 4000 NiMh for a larger capacity 2S LiPo and keep the weight the same. The NiMh is around 14 oz. An equivalent LiPo could be around 7600 mAh.

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/29/2012 10:21 AM   
Carosel43


 

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Status: offline 		I agree with kmot that the prop seems a little overkill. Also 3 blades are not so efficient. I would try a something from the 20x8 20x10 21x8 range in 2 blade props. I flew my 22lb model on a classic master 20x10 (not a great prop) the the model was well powered. As you may have seen i am going to try the 21x8 as soon as my glow issue is sorted out. Ideally i think the engine shoud run at no less than 6600rpm on the ground and no more than 7500 with best performance around 7200.

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/29/2012 1:57 PM   
SrTelemaster150



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kmot

5 glow plugs together draw a lot of amps. A 4000 mAh battery might be okay for a couple of starts but I do not think it would last long if the plugs are hot all the time.


If weight is critical, you could swap that 4000 NiMh for a larger capacity 2S LiPo and keep the weight the same. The NiMh is around 14 oz. An equivalent LiPo could be around 7600 mAh.


Holy crap! Even W/5 separate modules, a CDI could be used W/O a weight penalty. 4000 Ma drain for 5 modules (800 Ma each) would give 1 hour max, 45 min safe flight on that capacity NiMh..

When C&H gets their single module radial systems developed, I think the drain might be less. Since the fuel requirement will drop by about 25% the total AUWfior a given flight time envelope would actually favor CDI.

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/29/2012 4:27 PM   
Reverend



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Status: offline 		Dear Carousel,



yours truly,
Rev



I put six flights and four litres of Fuel on the engine today. The Stearman and the 400 are a match made in heaven. Flys absolutely brilliantly, completely "unleaded" and is great to land. A couple of guys where making fotos and one or two where filming. i will try to get a hold of yome material.
Having this small radial at the field was really THE Showstopper. We had a guy doing great 3D flying with a 2,3m Katana and I wasn't really thinking when I decided to testrun the engine. Well, soon enough no one was watching the 3D show anymore and everyone was standing around the Stearman...

After the sixth flight while taxying back I ran into a small mole hole and nosed over striking the prop. I didn't think much of it but when I was back in the pits I wanted to restart the engine and it blocked mechanicaly...What great new suprise awaits me tonight when I disassemble it yet again!?

I will keep you posted.

Rev

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/29/2012 6:26 PM   
Kmot



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Status: offline 		LOL @ the "L" sign.

Uh oh. Sudden prop stoppage, in the full size engine world, required an engine teardown by FAA regulations. Might be a twisted crankshaft.

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/29/2012 7:41 PM   
Carosel43


 

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Status: offline 		HA! cheers rev, i would have flown mine today but theglow driver issue prevented it. i did however fly my jayracer and was most amaised how the laser 300v pulled around the 22lb barge that is the jayracer.

As for the damage to your radial it sounds unpleasant, but im suprised it would give out just from a prop strike at low rpm :c

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/29/2012 11:08 PM   
Reverend



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Status: offline 		you guys are not going to believe this...

Opened up the engine and I found this...

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/29/2012 11:20 PM   
Reverend



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Status: offline 		right, after the first wave of frustration I think this will sum it up.

1. Forensics:
The way I see it, the Chinese C-Clips are plain rubbish. As you can see, the european one fitted is still in place. The other three have changed their mind about hanging on to the link pins. The nose over caused the now loose link pins to pop out.

2. Luck:
Concidering 1. the nose over actually saved my plane and probably the engine because in this way it happened on the ground @ idle speed and not in the air at full throttle.

3. Looking on the bright side:
- Tore down the most important parts and there is no real damage apart from the scratches and dents caused by the c-clips.
- The only parts I need are new c-clips. The Bearings are all good as is the cam and all the cylinders
- I am getting dang fast disassembling the 400

4. Lessons learned:
Fellows, it all boils down to a top gear top tip: GET RID OF THOSE CHINESE PIECES OF CRAP C-CLIPS. At some stage or another they will fall out, the link pins will change their mind about being LINK pins and will wander off to go find another job in the crank case.

Rev


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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/29/2012 11:53 PM   
Kmot



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Status: offline 		Wow. Lucky indeed. Thanks for the report.

I believe those c-clips must be for one time use only. Removing, and then re-installing is apparently a no-no.

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/30/2012 1:11 AM   
SrTelemaster150



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Status: offline 		Wow, dodged a bullet on that one!

Just when I start to think that I might be interested in one of these engines, something like this occurs.

It's a shame because the engine has so much potential too.

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/30/2012 4:12 AM   
jaav


 

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Status: offline 		Hey Rev.. come to think of it, when Im working on Chonda bike engines and remove clips they will usualy break or deform and Im using proper tools...Looks like the clips are made too hard...
Good save of the engine..

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/30/2012 6:20 AM   
Reverend



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quote:

ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

Wow, dodged a bullet on that one!

Just when I start to think that I might be interested in one of these engines, something like this occurs.

It's a shame because the engine has so much potential too.


I think the engine still is brilliant. Like tom said, those clips are the problem. apart from em making the mistake of reusing them, I think they are just too soft and they ürobably expand more than the Pins when they get warm. I say this because I know of at leastmfive other cases here in Austria/Germany where a clip has gone astray. These clips have not been reused .

So, you fs400 owners, best exchange thos clips for some quality ones right out of the box!

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/30/2012 6:27 AM   
Kmot



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Status: offline 		Save us the trouble of measuring.

What is the clip size needed?

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/30/2012 6:27 AM   
Reverend



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ORIGINAL: jaav

Hey Rev.. come to think of it, when Im working on Chonda bike engines and remove clips they will usualy break or deform and Im using proper tools...Looks like the clips are made too hard...
Good save of the engine..


Not quite saved yet but I think it will be all right

I really feel the urge to kick myself hard for not using new ones...

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/30/2012 6:30 AM   
Kmot



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Status: offline 		Oh, and to be technically correct, the FS400 uses "E" clips.

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/30/2012 6:35 AM   
Kmot



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Status: offline 		Bartender!! E-Clips for everyone in the house!

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/30/2012 7:41 AM   
Reverend



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Status: offline 		tom,

thanks for the description.

To my defence, they are called c-clips in german :-)

rev

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/30/2012 9:48 AM   
Carosel43


 

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Status: offline 		Thats outrageous, for all 3 clips to come apart like that is just crazy. I now feel like i should strip mine as i used the same clips after my rebuild (although i did give them a tweak with some pliers to push them back together) but i really dont think i can face taking it all apart again. That said i will have to if it explodes again. sigh. one thing i will say though is that its clearly run for quite a while like that as there seems to be a larde number of little scratches inside the case. but, you were bloody lucky thats for sure! Do you have any idea how old your engine is? i know mine is from about 1996 and i would love to know if these problems are restricted to engines over a certain age

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/30/2012 11:41 AM   
jaav


 

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Status: offline 		Here is Australia, we call them Jesus clips...and I have called them all sorts of names.[>:]

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/30/2012 1:12 PM   
SrTelemaster150



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Reverend


quote:

ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

Wow, dodged a bullet on that one!

Just when I start to think that I might be interested in one of these engines, something like this occurs.

It's a shame because the engine has so much potential too.


I think the engine still is brilliant. Like tom said, those clips are the problem. apart from em making the mistake of reusing them, I think they are just too soft and they ürobably expand more than the Pins when they get warm. I say this because I know of at leastmfive other cases here in Austria/Germany where a clip has gone astray. These clips have not been reused .

So, you fs400 owners, best exchange thos clips for some quality ones right out of the box!



Oh I agree that the engine is a wonderful design. It's an OS 300R5 knock off & OS engines are wonderfully designed.

It is just the right size for a lot of round engine models, a better size than the original OS 300R5. It seems to make good power & it sound awesome.

It just seems like such a crap shoot given some of the posts in this thread.

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/30/2012 1:44 PM   
Carosel43


 

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Status: offline 		its a great engine for the price, i would like it to be slightly longer stroke however so its got a little more torque. perhaps i will have to design one

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/30/2012 5:01 PM   
frets24


 

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Status: offline 		Wow! 100 e-clips per pack. That's a steal if they're good ones. What are your thoughts on the SS clips? Are they as durable as the black steel? Might be nice to not have to worry about corrosion on one less part.

E-clips are a funny part anyway. When working as a maint officer for military helicopters at Ft. Rucker, AL I questioned the quantity of "Circlips" we seemed to be using since there are very few places on an aircft that these would be safe to use. The answer was that they are NEVER re-used and if they get scratched during installation they are discarded as well. Even a light scratch acts as a "score-line" like for glass cutting and can cause a premature failure/break under stress.


Added:
Might a "spiro-lox" ring be an improvement over the e-clip?

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/30/2012 5:18 PM   
Reverend



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ORIGINAL: Carosel43

Thats outrageous, for all 3 clips to come apart like that is just crazy. I now feel like i should strip mine as i used the same clips after my rebuild (although i did give them a tweak with some pliers to push them back together) but i really dont think i can face taking it all apart again. That said i will have to if it explodes again. sigh. one thing i will say though is that its clearly run for quite a while like that as there seems to be a larde number of little scratches inside the case. but, you were bloody lucky thats for sure! Do you have any idea how old your engine is? i know mine is from about 1996 and i would love to know if these problems are restricted to engines over a certain age


my engine is 2008 so actually not that old. changing the rings is actually a minor task. loosen the intake manifolds, pull off the carb and open the 5 screws holding the backplate. I think the whole job can be done in one hour.

it took the longest getting that $#!@@ keleo ring off on mine...

i am only stripping mine down totally so I can thoroughly clean the engine and do not overlook a piece of minced e-clip along the way...

rev

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/30/2012 6:59 PM   
retransit



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Status: offline 		Tom, what's your source for the E-clips?

Bob

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RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul - 9/30/2012 7:07 PM   
Kmot



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Status: offline 		I dug out my factory original link pins and measured them. The diameter of the pin is 6.5mm and the diameter of the area the C-E-Circlip goes is 4.0mm.

Rev, it's all good. Like frets24, I normally refer to them as circlip's myself.

Bob, that page is from McMaster-Carr. http://www.mcmaster.com/#e-clips/=jipm50

I re-used my circlip's also, and ran the engine several times, as seen in the videos I made. I probably got lucky in that they did not fail.

I currently have my engine mounted on my test stand, ready to run with the new Olivier R.I.M. manifold. But I think it would be better to be safe than sorry. So I am going to order the new e-clip's from Mcmaster and pull down my engine and replace them.



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