no esc?

no esc?
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no esc? - 12/23/2007 5:42:38 AM

gabbonator

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From: , AUSTRALIA
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tell me if its a dumb thing to do but is there anything stopping you from not using an esc? instead have a switch between your battery and motor which is servo operated and at the other end of the movement have a parachute switch. so servo one way for full throttle and for brakes shoot the chute. cheaper and easier than having a esc and you dont have to worry about it melting.

Post #: 1

RE: no esc? - 12/23/2007 8:18:24 AM

snellemin

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From: Tomball, TX, USA
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Switches are used in brushed dragsters, which are becoming a thing of the past here. There is not enough time to activate the parachute once you hit the finish line at 132 feet. The whole race takes at max, 3 seconds or less.

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RE: no esc? - 12/24/2007 2:29:03 AM

gabbonator

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From: , AUSTRALIA
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brushess is expensive

i already have stuff that could handle a 6t motor which would be about as fast as a mamba brushless anyway. so i dont see the point in forking out 200 bucks which i could put towards an EFI system on my big car. as for braking, could you use disk brakes?

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Post #: 3

RE: no esc? - 12/24/2007 5:01:28 PM

Bodyman1969

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From: Linton, IN, USA
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What kind of noticeable differences are there between brushed and brushless in a 2-3 sec race? It kind of compares carbs to fuel injection in real drags.....injection may be the future but some guys can make a carb eat injectors for lunch. I cant see dropping 2 bills for brushless when there are brushed motors doing what they can do. This is only a personal observation!

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RE: no esc? - 12/24/2007 5:28:57 PM

snellemin

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I see your point.
Brushed motors require maintenance. It takes alot of effort to keep a drag brushed motor going for a day at the track. With a brushless setup you will have more time tuning at your track then cutting your commutator and swapping brushes.

I wouldn't compare a brushed motor to a carb motor. But rather a carb motor to a lipo battery and fuel injection to Lithium ion. On has a flat discharge rate whereas the other fluctuates,sorta kinda.

But speed wise between the two type of motors in a 2-3 second race, the difference is slim. But the way you apply the two different motors in dragracing is different. Brushed motors it's abivious to choose a low turn motor, whereas with the brushless it's the other way around. Voltage is used to make the power rather then amperage.

The mamba motor is popular for dragracing, but it's a low qaulity motor. The speed control is awesome though. But nevertheless, the mamba is capable of running 118MPH in a dragster, something that a brushed motor would just go up in smoke.

Disk brakes can be used, but I only see that used in big scale RC where a cheaper ESC is used. Haven't personally seen any in a brushed system.

Visit the www.Hamdrl.com forum for more dragracing info. There are guys there that run brushed setups and are just as fast as my brushless truck.

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RE: no esc? - 12/24/2007 5:52:20 PM

Paul Songas

Posts: 37
Joined: 5/13/2004
From: Blaine, MN, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: snellemin

I see your point.
Brushed motors require maintenance. It takes alot of effort to keep a drag brushed motor going for a day at the track. With a brushless setup you will have more time tuning at your track then cutting your commutator and swapping brushes.

I wouldn't compare a brushed motor to a carb motor. But rather a carb motor to a lipo battery and fuel injection to Lithium ion. On has a flat discharge rate whereas the other fluctuates,sorta kinda.

But speed wise between the two type of motors in a 2-3 second race, the difference is slim. But the way you apply the two different motors in dragracing is different. Brushed motors it's abivious to choose a low turn motor, whereas with the brushless it's the other way around. Voltage is used to make the power rather then amperage.

The mamba motor is popular for dragracing, but it's a low qaulity motor. The speed control is awesome though. But nevertheless, the mamba is capable of running 118MPH in a dragster, something that a brushed motor would just go up in smoke.

Disk brakes can be used, but I only see that used in big scale RC where a cheaper ESC is used. Haven't personally seen any in a brushed system.

Visit the www.Hamdrl.com forum for more dragracing info. There are guys there that run brushed setups and are just as fast as my brushless truck.

Do you have proof a brushed motor would go up in smoke??? I don't think it will. It's never happened. The only reason a mamba car runs so well, is becasue it's light weight with the lipo cars. Roy Anderson went 98.9 MPH 2 years ago in a 52 oz. car. The lipo cars are 28-30 oz RTR. That's the only difference. I have yet to see a Brushless motor at the same weight and same power outrun a traditional brushed motor if the guy knew what he was doing.

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RE: no esc? - 12/24/2007 6:18:56 PM

snellemin

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On of my old brushed motor did go up in smoke, pushing 15 volts. Same thing happens in my sons powerwheels that are designed for 6 volts, that cry when 24V is going through them.
The thing is that most don't know what they are doing with brushless. It's still new and there are way more motors to choose from. I personally have maxed out my Rustler dragster which keeps up with the brushed promod's. I will be going to a prostock platform as soon as my brushless setup arrives. Then I will see how hard it is to get a 1000 watt system going in a light vehicle.

< Message edited by snellemin -- 12/24/2007 6:20:28 PM >

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Post #: 7

RE: no esc? - 12/24/2007 9:42:24 PM

Paul Songas

Posts: 37
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From: Blaine, MN, USA
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Old Brushed motors? You talking RAE pro drag motors? or hobby shop specials off the wall?? RAE Drag motors have run on over 20 volts no problem. Only reason a motor would go up in smoke is lack of maintenance.

Also, I doubt your brushless rustler can run with a brushed pro mod.

Your Rustler can run low 1.70s/high 1.60's at over 80 mph? wow.

< Message edited by Paul Songas -- 12/24/2007 9:49:19 PM >

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RE: no esc? - 12/24/2007 11:59:50 PM

bucci

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brushed is a thing of the past

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RE: no esc? - 12/25/2007 4:07:24 AM

absolutemayhem

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From: , VA, USA
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thoese brushed motors are good. i wonder why no one has run one off a MAMBA MAX ESC with 4 s lipo.... anyone got the balls..

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Post #: 10

RE: no esc? - 12/25/2007 6:35:15 AM

gabbonator

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nobody has really answered the question, do you need an esc? you dont really need throttle control in a drag race so i cant see why you would. and if this is the case then, surely, brushed motors would have an advantage because they are not limited by speed controllers unlike a brushless.

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Post #: 11

RE: no esc? - 12/25/2007 7:24:28 AM

Paul Songas

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From: Blaine, MN, USA
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Switches work good for drag racing, on a track that has been sprayed and has good traction. For street racing or something like that, I would say use a high rated ESC so you have some throttle control to keep traction.

A brushless will not work with microswitches, it needs a speed control. I have seen guys here run the mamba ESC with no problems. The biggest problem I see with the Mamba is they jump backwards a bit at the hit of the throttle from time to time.

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Post #: 12

RE: no esc? - 12/25/2007 9:53:19 PM

ac hauswald

Posts: 143
Joined: 3/13/2004
From: Houston, TX, USA
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Personally, I prefer using an ESC. I used one with both my Rustler conversion bracket truck and my bracket/2.50 Index Rail before going over to BL.

I like the throttle control option it allowed me. Yeah, most of the time, if I had to get off the throttle I lost. BUT, there were those times I 'pedaled' and won. Very few, but to me, worth it to run an ESC.

Most of the guys running bracket and index here in Texas use an ESC. I really didn't see a use of micro switches until racers "moved up" to FC or TFE. One re-curring challenge with micro-switches is that they tend to weld themselves in the closed position and the driver experiences a run-away. I've never used them, so maybe it was an application problem. I've heard some of the fast brushed guys have run multiple micros to spread out the current flow, but they'd have to weigh in on that.

Bottom line. If I were still running a brushed motor, I'd opt out for an ESC. But then, I've never won a championship or set low E.T. or high speed at any event. But, I have won some local money races, so for me, ESC works.

Oh! Merry Christmas everyone!

AC

< Message edited by AHR43 -- 12/25/2007 9:55:00 PM >

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Post #: 13

RE: no esc? - 12/26/2007 4:54:11 PM

Bodyman1969