UTM

Randy thanks for the offer. I'd jump right now if I haden't just returned home from the LHS. I was planning on buying one of those CSRC motors but on further inspection I would not be able to use it without getting a begger ESC. I currently run the align 35A and the max current draw on that motor is 45A. I ended up buying a standard align 430L 3550. I should think that the preformance of that motor will be similar if not identical to my sonix that just bit the dust. the stats are virtually the same. That will get me by for now. I plan on putting a Hacker in there for next years flying season. It's only a 2800KV but a torque monster. By then I'll have some metal grips and CF blades and will maybe run a 16t pinion on it. I've read many accounts of that being a fantastic setup for most 450s. I believe BarracudaHocky uses that motor in his mini titan.

So thanks for the offer Randy but I'll be passing for now.

finally a warm day without wind. It's about 70 degrees and still. Here I set with heli not flying. Seems like it always works that way. Don't know what I'm still typing for I;m headed to the bench to put the new motor in. I can see a backflip coming this afternoon

Uri

J-MICHAEL

Uri ~

I agree on the Hacker Brushless Motors... There awesome indeed ! I have one installed in my Logo waiting to unleash some power...LOL...! Maybe after winter....

Glad ya got a fix to your 450 though... The Align should work fine... My Align motor always got warmer than it should, and I've heard others complaining that they run hotter than the norm, but like ya said, it will be fine for a temporary fix...


Have a good one & happy flying !


~ Jeff

soloboss

Jeff- you might try making a set of skids from thin wall tubular aluminum. Or just lose the skids and land on 4 legs.
There are WAY too many spokes in the main gears - snip every other one. Or you can use the Dremel and sand them to a thin wafer with a thin cross viewed section from above and broad in direction of travel. That should maintain a good modulus and save weight. You might also drill holes in the perimeter of the gear between the spokes.
If it had regular servos there's a lot of weight to be saved by drilling the covers, but that's not the case here.
The "windows" could be removed since you have taped the seams.
Could a guy use a coat of polyurethane sprayed inside the canopy rather than tape? The spray would tend to seal the joints. I don't know if a full coat would weigh less, but I get the feeling you'll let us know when you try it.

Too much fun!! I gotta get one soon.

Solo

J-MICHAEL

Mark ~

WOW.... see what I mean.... You need to hurry and get one, and help us youngsters out with this MCX...!...LOL... The gear idea is an EXCELLENT idea by far... Yes, removing the extra spokes is a must ! And I agree, less weight/mass for the tiny motors to spin... I'll definately give ya full credit on that one.... I may keep that one a secret, as I've already revealed everything else it seems...LMAO... I just got done doing a flight and have been noticing my tracking for the upper blades is off quite a bit... Even in the video you saw inside the small guest house it was like that... Well... I took out the whole flybar assembly out of the head, and re-positioned it so the link attaches to the other ball-link on the opposite blade and Ta-DA...! Perfect tracking.... I gotta get back in the swing of things with these coaxials, as its been awhile with em... A little rusty, but have all winter to re-educate myself...

Well the Dremel might be busy tonight.... Hurry and get one ! Go sneak out to Dave's, and when he's sleeping grab his...! Look by his pillow....


Take care,


~ Jeff

soloboss

Jeff, ya gotta post the results so we all know if it's worth the bother.
Oh and one more thing.
Nuts.
I forgot it while I was typing.

Stupid human . . .

soloboss

AHA!! It came back to me.



Nuts . . .



Oh yeah, lose the weights on the flybar and just make it longer. Use tiny shrink sleeve and add CF rod. Longer is the same as heavy, it just weighs less. Now there's one for the textbooks.

And I quote, "Longer is the same as heavy. It just weighs less".

Brilliance comes in many forms. Frequently it's disguised as ggofy. Yep, and other times it's disguised as goofy.
It's gonna be a long night. Maybe I'll boot up the racing sim and work on my car's settings. Sim racing is every bit as tough as sim flight. I cheaped out and didn't get the force feedback so it's like driving a car with electric steering and no feedback.

RMG2

I'm wondering if Uri tried out his new motor and pulled a back flip like he was threatening???

stump3r

I hate to post this but here it goes......no video tomorrow, I'm grounded until at least Tuesday with the 200. Broke the damn tail pitch control arm and you guessed no parts. Our stock order won't be until Tuesday. So me being me I did buy the microheli CNC upgrade version. No more crappy plastic ones.

Oh man you guys have me itchin for an MCX now. If the wife didn't just drop a bundle at Costco I would run out and hit the hobby shop for a pnp version.

J-MICHAEL

Sorry to hear about the Gaui Shane... But no worries... You have all winter to play... Oh you so need a MCX ! Such a riot in small spaces... You can 'tap' the ceilings, fly around like your a madman, and there sooooo tough from being so lightweight ! I've smacked mine into everything and still have not had to replace a single part....LOL.. You may even train the youngsters on one perhaps... Or maybe the ol' lady...?! [8D] Hek.... Just run into town really quick, go to one of those busy intersections, and hold up one of them cardboard signs that says "Will Work For MCX".... Desperate times calls for desperate measures ya know.... Just make sure ya hurry, as Brog might beat ya to that good spot on the corner..... Hek.... I might beat ya both there, as these MCX's are so fun I may have to get another... But I'll share the corner with ya guys... We'll park the bus down the road...............


Cheers,


~ Jeff

choppersrule

Jeff Michael and Soloboss,

Jeff, I couldn’t hold back any longer, you got me to where I HAD to make some modifications.

Looks aren’t everything, RIGHT! Well, I shortened the tail boom to 69 mm. Trimed excess off
the canopy and vertical tail fin. Chopped the flybar to the metal, then took it for a maiden flight,
and there was some tail vibrations. Back to the drawing board. Got the dremel out and touched
upped one side of the flybar, it got better. So, after three, minor grindings on the flybar all is solid
now. I moved the swashplate links down one hole on the servos, to improve response of cyclic
control. Also, I made holes in the top and bottom of the canopy and lots of holes in the vertical
tail fin. I used a paper clip, sharpened at one end and a Micro Torch. I just heated the paper clip
and melted holes wherever I wanted. Fast and easy. Just don’t overheat the paperclip.

After all the modifications, this little rascal, just races around. Yikes!

Oh, I didn’t wax my blades, but I did put a drop of silicon spray on them and buffed it with a
cotton ball. Looks good and really cuts through the wind too. Slippery is better. LMAO

Thanks for all the TIPS.

Dave

J-MICHAEL

Dave ~

Awesome...! Anything sure helps the little rascal huh..? Its stormy here today... I haven't done much of anything really. I want to grind on the MCX but I'am running out of plastic to grind.... LMAO... No, kidding... Just have had a migraine all day, so flying a few packs with it here and there though. I do want to grind on the gears as Mark had suggested... I have a couple extra's just in case... I really need one of those micro scales. My scale is just a gram scale and doesn't go down to 0.1 increments, and having the MCX that scale doesn't cut it... I'll order one from Heli-Direct maybe tomorrow, or if I got motivated I'll make the Trek to Harbor Freight...

Great pics of the MCX ! Remember what ya taught me a long time ago.... Performance first, looks second... I follow that... Who cares what she looks like, but it looks great to me. With all these pics of the MCX here on the board lately, I bet Solo's been panting like a puppy eh ?! LOL....


Take care Chief !


~ Jeff

soloboss

J-Michael and Dave - great stuff guys. I feel left out. I figured that everyone was going big / badder / faster with those single rotors and I'd be here all by myself with a micro copter. And now I'm STILL bringing up the rear! ARRGGHHHHH!

From your great pics, Dave, I understand how the 'servos' work, I think. The little motor pinion turns the larger gear in the rack and that turns a jack screw driving the linkage arm. From the photo it looks like moving the linkage up or down just re-positions the linkage. It doesn't look to me like it changes the rate of movement. But I haven't actually seen one so I may well be missing the whole point of it.

But I do see things to consider.

MINOR: The is the size of the rack. It looks like holes could be made to remove plastic and lighten the heavy case that the jackscrew runs in. You might get a half gram from that. And you might also ruin a $60 board. When I get mine I'm going to leave it alone.

Significant: I see from Dave's photo, the angle of the 5 in1 board. The board is vertical. The linkage is not parallel with the board, so the action is not linear. If the board could be remounted, canted slightly back so the board is parallel with the axis of the linkage, the servos would have more "effective" throw. A movement of 3mm of the linkage driver would equal 3mm of swash ball movement. I'm thinking there is a 15° disparity between the linkage centerline and the travel plane of the servo driver. That has to yield a measurable disparity in the amount of movement of the swash compared to the servo and the swash is coming up short. It's very much the same concept as with our 'normal' servos - making the servo arm 90° to the swash linkage.

If we can get a larger pinion for the motor the response of the servo could be a LOT more active.

Dave, doesn't melting plastic just move it? If you use a paper punch or Dremel milling tip to remove plastic you'll remove weight. I do see where melting holes will stiffen the structure because you are adding thickened sections around the holes without adding weight. Lighter and stiffer is what we want.

That's enough for tonight.
Now I need a report from Dave about the response of the two positions of the response settings. Since you've added a good bit of energy to the little bugger, does the slower position return the flight to docile?

Heck, I'm having fun and I don't even have one yet! Talk about a cheap thrill . . .
Good night guys.
Solo

J-MICHAEL

Solo ~

Lets just say MAJOR SIGNIFICANT....[8D] Now that's exactly what we were looking for from the start ! Forget the rest of the little doo dad mods... This by far I noticed the biggest improvement... I canted the board by simply just cutting the top bracket mount (of two) shorter... I left the bottom the same, re-inserted the screws and tight as a whistle again... Much better throw. I had to use the other screw, as before I had only used one to hold the board... It makes sense also having the angle like that. In the pics below you can see the before and after. Also you can see a picture of our Vapors which use the same board design, and they even have that installed at the 90 degree angle in which we want... No time tonight for grinding gears, but maybe tomorrow... I felt this servo alignment had more priority for the moment and it did... This thing REALLY pushes in and harder than before. And I notice any little thing, as I know the little bird pretty good so far from vigorous testing... I've even been keeping track of all battery times to see of any improvement in flight times in relation to changes or tweaks with the heli....

Plus the cool thing is do you see where the little servo gears are at the bottom of the servo are at ? Well now that the board is canted, it pushes those wheels farther away from the battery... Since I have my skids more low-profile from stock, and the MCX sits lower now, it made the front of the battery very close to those gears before. Now the batt sits very far away from the board. I even had to cut out my middle brace on the battery holder from when I did make the skids more low-profile... And also a portion of the inner shaft, as it extended a bit past the collar on the bottom gear and I didn't want it poking the battery. So now the battery is snug under the gear nicely...

Good find, and discovery on this mod... Your name is all over it... Stamped and certified...LOL...


Cheers,


~ Jeff

xyster101

Ahh yes, the window licker OCD boys are going nuts on the mCX! I have a great and better idea for an ultra light flyer:

Get a small battery powered fan
Get a large feather from your pillow
Turn on the fan and keep the feather in the air with it!

On the difficulty scale this will be harder then the CX and easier then a CP. It will teach hand eye coordination and the ability to "read" the feather's movements and react before the new direction is needed, much like flying a CP. The feather will weight less then your mCX, it will not break in a crash and the tx is super cheap and simple to use with only one button!

Since I have moved on to flying CP machines over the feather, I went out yesterday and flew. Did great and was inverted for close to 10 seconds. I have all orientation down good except the rudder, I still push that the wrong way while hovering. I also think my original stock battery is shot. I came in fast towards myself and flared hard, the blades definitely slowed down a lot and I was not sure if it was going to stop with full positive!

Uri,
Sorry to hear about your motor. How many flights did you have on it? Glad you were able to land safely!

soloboss

Max,
I have a 4" diameter fan that I use to cool charging batteries. And I found a feather outside. With some practice, I can hover it fairly well, but it crashes if I get too close to walls or large furniture. I also have a problem with ventilation eddy currents and ceiling fans.

I tried it outside in nearly calm conditions, but it got away from me. It does seem to be better suited for indoor flight.

Back in my office ( no ceiling fan) I was able to go from fast forward to hover with no clack. Figure 8's are largely driven by furniture placement. As this was my first attempt at said pattern, I did not fully research the potential risks involved. I expect my foot to heal nicely. I'll be sure to include a disclaimer in the instruction booklet.
I was also able to get a decent roll out of the feather. I have yet to master the flip - either forward or backward.
I have to add some paint to the feather because orientation at 28" is difficult. And there is no "Glow" accessory package. Yet.

I'm investigating a good source of uniform feathers and I'll work evenings this week researching sources of quality DC powered fans. I find the cord to be highly restrictive with the setup I'm using.

If this goes well, I may add a product line including nozzles for compressed air lines and vacuum cleaner exhaust tubes, as well as brightly colored beach balls. Due to the coloration of most beach balls, I do expect orientation issues to return, although basic visibility should not be an issue.

Thanks for the idea. When I get the package to market, I'll be willing to split the proceeds between me, you and the Iraq Fund. Perhaps I can market this through Michael. Due to the current condition of the stock market, I intend to keep this enterprise privately held.

Hang on - you were being sarcastic again, weren't you Max?
Oh you bugger.
You got me again.
[sm=lol.gif]

Soloboss

UTM

Randy I did get the chance to try out the new motor. Flew 2 packs yesterday afternoon. Didn't try the flip though. By the time i got out to fly the windhad picked up to 8-10mph. I don't want my next flip to end like the fist one due to wind. I need a very still afternoon to give it a shot. i know what my problem was the last time and I think I will be successful on my next attempt. I did try my first loop though Was really ugly and that too almost hit the deck but I managed to pull it out just in time. I started at about 30' and came out about 5' off the deck. I need to be sure and get to 0 pitch at the apex of the loop. I still was a bit positive and so it ended up looking more like a corkscrewing 9. Still though if I didn't crash it was a success Also was doing giant stall turns into the wind. Man when you launch your heli into the wind that really carries the momentum up up and away. I was going vertical at around 15' and it was probably going up to 40' prior to stalling. I do find that when you do that you have to feed in a bit or negative pitch to counteract the wind though or the stall turn really travels backwards fast. The first one I did I just went to neutral and on a stall starting about 30' to my right ended up coming down right in front of me. On the ones to follow I was able to keep them roughly vertical.

The Align motor is a bit larger than the sonix I had in there. It is smoother running and quieter. It doesnt' have quite the teeth the sonix had though. It flys the heli well but on full positive climb outs it bogs quite a bit. Still shoots up like a rocket though. It will certainly due until i get a nicer motor and ESC. I'll be saving and working on that over the winter months. Otherwise the Exi is flying very well. Tail problems are gone and no vibrations to speak of.

Max I was pretty pumped to get it down without damage. That motor was still pretty fresh. HAd only 56 flights on it. I am assuming that the bearing gave and came apart and the ball bearings loose in a very fast moving caseing caused the damage to the magnet. The bearing was the root of the problem I'm sure. there would be no reason for the magnet to just break. It doesn't even touch anything in ther during operation.

More wind today but I'm planning on flying anyway.

Have a good Sunday all.

Uri

J-MICHAEL

Raining here again this morning..... [&:]

RMG2

Uri, before I forget again, congrats on that forced auto you did when your motor failed! You only get one try at not killing the head speed to soon and it sounds like you did it perfectly!

You might try 1-tooth less on the pinion with that Align motor and see if the increased torque helps keep a more steady RPM???

30' is pretty low for attempting your first loop! Glad you pulled it through! When you try your next aerobatic maneuver you might consider getting a little more altitude as a safety margin and as you get better you can bring the flying down a bit. Just trying to save you some grief.

When you try your next flip do make sure you are either facing the heli square into the wind, or there is no wind. If your heli is perpendicular to the wind then the wind will push it off it's horizontal axis and when you are first learning you may not recover! I'm sure Max will also agree after you have done flips for a while you won't care which way you do them relative to the wind as you just get use to it and recovering from less than perfect rotations is no big deal. I know Max has advanced to the point of understanding what I am saying here and can add commentary. Once you learn the maneuvers you will do any, or all the maneuvers without much concern for wind.

Like "Finless", Bob White says in his videos, "It's all collective management". Bob is right-on with that statement and you will learn how true that is once you get proficient with basic aerobatics. If you have a fair amount of elevation so your heli can absorb a few feet of drop you really do not need to do anything more than take the collective stick to neutral, center stick and keep it there while you hold full back, or forward on the elevator until the heli rotates full around to upright. Like Max has said in past threads, once you get use to inputting the correct collective at the right moment in rotation you can actually gain altitude in your flips instead of falling. But, to start with I would advise not complicating your mind with added collective for the first few dozen flips just go up fairly high and take the collective stick to neutral and hold while the heli flips around to upright.

Like Max, I am working at inverted on the sim, and a little in real flight and I am about where Max is at with just seconds of inverted before I bail-out! It is coming and I know Max and I will have some sort of inverted pass coming to video in the next few months! [8D]

It's good to see many of the guys enjoying something new with the little MCX helis but like Max, I am going in a different direction with interest at this moment. It's all good though as I think in the future we will all end up in the same place with this hobby and in the mean time we get to learn about a variety of heli stuff from each other! [8D]

choppersrule

Mark / Soloboss,

Jeff-Michael has said it all, he's that one mod ahead of me, with the control board canted. Darn him.

About melting the plastic, hmmm, never thoght of that, moving it around and not removing weight. I had already trimmed the vertical stabalizer to remove weight. My idea on the holes was to lessen surface area with removing to much weight and making the heli nose heavy. Well, it seems to work pretty good, between the two mods.. The little rascal is a blurr when I do left piros. Right piros are fast.
The amazing thing, when coming out of a piro, it literally stops on a dime. Oh for a comparison, the main is smaller than a cigarette filter. Moving the swashplate linkage to the second hole, made a tremendous difference in control in any direction with the right stick.

Well, I gonna run for now, I'm gonna try and keep up with Jeff, and cant the board this afternoon. LMAO

So far ever mod has made an improvement, thrilled with it.

Dave

soloboss

Dave,
Is the MCX thread picking up on any of this stuff? More importantly, I wonder if the Eflight guys are picking up any of this. It seemed that the old CX was pretty much buy it and fly it until we started working mods for the little devil. Then, 'all of a sudden' the big guys had production parts that seemed to do just what our parts had done. Isn't it odd that with all of our intellectual offerings, there are no Eflight staff on this forum? So strange.

xyster101

Hi folks!
Uri, I was all over with the wind when I was doing stunts, but after a while recovering becomes second nature and you have no idea what you did but the heli will right itself as you get better. Glad you made that great loop. I agree with what Randy says on those accounts. I can fly in a pretty good wind now, but I usually don't do much in the way of stunts, nothing like doing a loop in front of you and finishing it 100' away!
Took her out today, I think my main shaft was bent a little tiny bit even though I have not crashed. My tail has been acting funny, feels either too loose or too tight. I was doing great, had some swell stall turns and some good inverted hovering. I was inverted about 40' up and it went full aileron to the right (left who knows) and dropped 30'do only to recover with full positive collective, a huge "Thump thump thump" of the blades and it took back off up. Then it just kept getting farther and farther away. I would line it up tail in, and then go backwards towards me and the tail would move, finally about 300' or more I just could not tell what way it was facing! I was not sure if it was inverted or not and it was dropping fast. I hit throttle hold at 20' up and heard it land on the other side of the tree line. I went over to a apartment complex and saw the worst, a parking lot full of cars! Turns out the heli crashed into 6' wide front lawn area about 15 feet from a S-10! Talk about lucky. Anyway, the damage is not too bad. Broke another part of the frame, main, feather, rotors, flybar and cracked the canopy good. Other then that it looked ok. I don't have the parts on hand so I shall rebuild this week. I have not crashed since Sept 13!! I don't think I have ever gone that long before. I guess I am still struggling here.

soloboss

Oh man, you are one lucky dude! Sorry to hear about the damage - sounds significant to me but I guess you're used to it. That was my downfall. I just couldn't get used to it. Anyhow, this note is a get well card for your helicopter.

Ya want to borrow a fan and feather while your heli is down? LOL!! I laughed my butt off at the concept.

broggyr

Max, good thing you didn't hit any of those cars - great falling skills

I had a great flight today - went 8 minutes until the timer went off, no crash. When I go full throttle/collective, the tail stays put. This thing is setup very nicely now.

J-MICHAEL

Max ~

Hek.... I've been wondering where ya been... Thought maybe ya got stuck on the crapper or somethin'....LMAO... Man were you lucky ! Amazing the heli found the little patch of grass to take a nap eh ?! That would be horrible to walk over and around, and see it nestled on top of a Ferrari or something ! That's when ya just keep on walking huh ! Sorry for the crash, but your still all balls of glory for pushing the limits with these honery things... +1 for that...[8D]


Randy ~

Well I just about got everything here now for the T-500... I pick up my two Thunder Power Extreme V2 5-cell 3300 packs up tommorow for it. I'll go 6-cell later in time, when I want and need more power but for now the 5-cells will be plenty... Jason Krause actually prefers the 5-cells, where C-Youngblood flies the 6's... I still haven't made my mind on whether I should use one of my Futaba 9257's like some use, or the Futaba 9254 that I have... Some say the 9254 would be better, and if I do then the only other thing left to pick up then would be a servo mount bracket from a Trex 600 as that's the servo generally run in that... We'll see... The stock bracket that comes with the 500 will fit currently however for the 9257.... And the 9257 would be lighter... The 9257 is a $60.00 tail servo compared to the 9254 which is about $120.00 at Heli-Direct. The 9254's I have two as they came in both my GY401 kits, so I would like to be able to use one instead of them just sitting around.... Dunno... Hard to decide still ! RATS.... I did have to pick up a better power supply though for my Thunder Power 1010c charger, but I'll be able to hook up the Accu-Cycle up to it also and run them at the same time as the amps will supply enough for that. I hope to be able to upgrade the 500's esc soon so that I can throw it in the Logo and pick up a RX for it also and get it also in the air, at least hopefully by Spring...

I'll try and start this build hopefully by the end of the week coming up... Oh I'am going to miss my little MCX though.... Actually it still will be fun to buzz around between the build breaks... I love that little thing !


Take care all,


~ Jeff

RMG2

Wow Jeff, a new 500-class! I know you have been talking about it but I didn't know you were gonna start on it right away! Cool, another build to work on!

If that 9257 has enough torque for a 500 it's almost half the weight of the 9254. If it were me, and I was gonna use Futaba servos, I would try that 9257 if ya already have one and if the tail performance isn't working then you can always switch to the 9254. I sold my 9257 to "JustPlaneChris" and he put it on his Protos-500 and it is working very well so you might be fine with the smaller servo???