RE: Struggling with Single Rotor basics  
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RE: Struggling with Single Rotor basics - 12/29/2007 6:28:24 PM   
shufflez



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Racin06; i think it's not just about what heli you get, but that's a whole different discussion . Personally Soloboss and i followed a similar path. We started out on CX(2)s and Soloboss got an FP. I got myself a CP and i know for sure that the little CX has thought me the directional flight you're refering to too . I'm still using my CX to train orientation and especially 'steer towards danger!' situations on nose-in . As i don't dare to try that with my CP yet . I've just managed around 10 hovers, so no experience .

BTW; You're comment on the sim... I can fly inverted on the sim! Hover several ft from the ground upside down, do barrel rolls and that kind of stuff. And i'm using a 'real' sim, but i think the 'fakyness' causes it not to sink in as good as the real thing. Pain in the wallet beats a sim-crash on the learningcurve. I think a sim is good for orientation training too, but personally i find that 'the real thing' (although some of you might not find a CX the real thing) works much better. At least for me .

But this is a whole different discussion and not what Solo's intent was with this thread .
BTW; i hope i can fly my CP like you're flying around end of summer next year! Looks real good!

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RE: Struggling with Single Rotor basics - 12/29/2007 6:41:34 PM   
cx2cp+



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like i said before, if the paddles were made of an extremely heavy metal, they would hold the heli perfectly stable (of course it would still move around on the air currents and rotor wash high and low pressure spots), but it would be darn near impossible to push the paddles around for any kind of control - its all a trade off between gyroscopic stabilization (weight and headspeed) and controllability (moving the flybar disk) - all goes back to how much push the little servos have and why they use flybar control systems in the first place - you could increase the headspeed to near the speed of light, but the light weight paddles wouldn't get much better than they do now cause they have to be able to do their thing to control the blades - the paddles must have been designed by a computer somewhwere - i would suggest that if solo can hover a whole pack or more, he's doing just fine - these things will never be rock steady like the cx2, more like what the cx2 would be like with paddles on the flybar

edge

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RE: Struggling with Single Rotor basics - 12/29/2007 7:02:40 PM   
soloboss


 

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cx2cp+
I have moved the link to the center hole on both horns. At least they will be balanced now. And I will certainly try the inner most hole to see where that puts me.
Thanks for the response.
Soloboss

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Soloboss
If everyone''s thinking alike, then somebody isn''t thinking . . . G. Patton

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RE: Struggling with Single Rotor basics - 12/29/2007 7:28:54 PM   
cx2cp+



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no prob - try it and see - if its too whacky then just put it back - weight of superskids (less fins cause i don't roll that way, and antenna tube cause i'm now on spektrum rx) is 38.2 grams - mine's on the cp - joints are ca'd and battery tray is from a cp with a homemade battery strap, so adjust your weights accordingly

pic below is my fp frankencopter - walkera 4#4 fp frame with esky hbfp head, swash and flybar; walkera 4#4 blades; cp motors, gear and shaft; dynam vortex 3-in-1 and a ar6100 rx; cx2 lipo


edge


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< Message edited by cx2cp+ -- 12/29/2007 7:39:49 PM >


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RE: Struggling with Single Rotor basics - 12/29/2007 7:51:10 PM   
soloboss


 

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This is turning into one of the most informative tutorial threads that I have seen on this forum! And the information just keeps coming - This is excellent!

Shufflez, that was a very good analogy that you used - the bicycle wheel / rpm / wobble. You handle the 'foreign language' better than a lot of us who have English as a first / only language. I knew that there was a reason why the higher head speed was more stable, but I wasn't certain why. As a kid I used to play with gyroscopes, and there was no doubt that it was more fun for the first 15 seconds of run-time than the last 15 seconds when the speed was way down.

You mentioned hotter batteries and gearing. I assume you are looking for more head speed. Remember this is a fixed pitch heli, so head speed = altitude gain. Racin06 shows some really good footage of his fixed pitch working really well. I expect that he would see improvement even beyond what he is demonstrating with more head speed. I am truely impressed by the demonstration that racin06 shows. It has become obvious that I don't need a cp heli. But I sure want one.

At the next flight I will have the antenna fully extended. I demonstrate a really bad attitude when I loose concentration from nearly flying into my own antenna. I'll deal with that. And I am going to dress my heli antenna differently to keep it out of harm's way and not wrapped around the tail stay with the metal rod in it.

cx2cp+ - I have reset my paddles to neutral. I don't need any more rotor drag than I have now. And I'm all about stability. For the record, I don't expect the single rotor to ever fly like a coaxial. In fact I don't want it to fly like a coaxia - I enjoy the challenge. The purpose of this post was to learn the setup details and to help me decide whether I wanted to fine tune the fixed pitch or just get a collective pitch. I was so far from the control that I expected of a fixed pitch that I needed to know if my problem was setup or just pilot error. It seems that I did a good job of setting the parameters that I was aware of - but I was only half done with the job. I don't know if it flies better yet, but it is more technically correct. That should be an improvement as I get more stick time. Looking at your photo, looking from behind as we are, your flybar is 90° to your rotor drive shaft and the blades are parallel with your flybar. I had an exchange with stump3r and both of us have level flybar but the rotor is a few degrees right of horizontal. That seems wrong to me, but I have no idea what to do about it. I'll look at the paddles again. I may have one off level just a triffle.

ALL - I have learned an encyclopedia's worth of great information through this thread. Because of all that I have learned through this thread, I'm not ready to give up on the fixed pitch yet. Had I gone to the collective pitch as Shufflez did I would probably have not only frustration, I would be in debtors prison. I have learned from racin06 that I am way too concerned about the super skid's added weight. A little additional weight adds head speed. Perhaps shortening the rotor by 10mm ( 1/2" would also increase head speed. And a faster motor may help some too. I'm back to experimenting / learning again but this time I am well armed with information.
Thanks to all,
Soloboss


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Soloboss
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RE: Struggling with Single Rotor basics - 12/29/2007 8:00:56 PM   
cx2cp+



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good luck! - i wonder what blades you're using? - falcon 40's? - the esky hbfp blades were a bit too heavy for me and i changed to walkera 4#4's - you can also add another collar to the flybar next to the paddles a'la the cx2 for more stability (slows the reaction time even more though)

i think the wind is dropping a bit - you've got me wanting to go fly the fp so bad i can't stand it


edge

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RE: Struggling with Single Rotor basics - 12/29/2007 8:12:48 PM   
soloboss


 

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I'm using the stock Falcon 40 blades. I am going to try the setup I have now, then clip them a bit as I noted earlier. My thought is that the coning is a VERY bad thing. If I take the lift from the tips then more lift will have to come from the root via more head speed. I wish I knew what the motor speed is now and how much more I can expect by lowering drag via shorter blades. This is so much fun!

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Soloboss
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RE: Struggling with Single Rotor basics - 12/29/2007 10:41:56 PM   
stump3r



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Solo to answer your servo question both of mine are in the last hole on the horn, or furthest from the screw holding the servo on. Now reading what edge had to say I'm thinking of moving it in. However you will be happy to note that I had my first glitch a few minutes ago! Pulled the antenna all way out on the tx....no more glitch. So it would appear that there is something to be said for that as well. I'm up to a full 5 minute hover now and loving every minute of it.

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RE: Struggling with Single Rotor basics - 12/29/2007 10:42:40 PM   
cx2cp+



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i just flew the fp for the first time in awhile - you are right, it is a bit twitchy once it gets in the rotor wash - then just for kicks and so the motors didn't freeze up since i haven't used it in awhile, i flew the cx2 - i absolutely love the coaxial design, except for the issue with banked turns making it fall out of the sky and wind problems - oh i wish there was a 400 size version of the cx2 - i may have to revisit the monster cx design again cause none of these single-rotor heli's, regardless of size, are as stable and just plain fun to fly

edge

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RE: Struggling with Single Rotor basics - 12/29/2007 10:49:04 PM   
soloboss


 

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Stump3r - I just moved mine to the inside hole on the horn. I'm better that way. Marginally. Five minutes huh? I have work to do.

Oh, and the stock batteries are good for test and tune but they don't last long enough for practice. I'm thinking several 8 cell packs from the CP - 9.6 volts ought to wake it up a bit and not hurt a thing.
5 minutes. Posh! I'll do that. Someday. I can run a battery pack out now as long as it's the stock pack. Maybe that's 5 minutes. I need to time it. Once the breeze in the garage comes up to gale force, five minutes seems like forever!

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Soloboss
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RE: Struggling with Single Rotor basics - 12/30/2007 1:42:56 AM   
stump3r



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Keep at it Solo, you'll get it! If I can fly the damn thing so can you It is literally getting easier every time I put her in the air. I'm now on a mission to get 10 to 15 minute flights out of a 7.4 lipo! I'm thinking an 11 tooth pinion is the trick. Seems the 3200' elevation here does have an affect on this heli. Good thing Wolfpackin didn't get one cause at his altitude it probably wouldn't even get off the ground.

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Life is tough. It''s even tougher when your stupid! - John Wayne
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RE: Struggling with Single Rotor basics - 12/30/2007 2:06:06 AM   
Wolfpackin


 

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