RE: Struggling with Single Rotor basics  
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RE: ... - 5/10/2008 6:16:31 AM   
RMG2


 

Posts: 516
Joined: 8/13/2004
From: Private, OR, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UTM

Hey all! hope everyone is doing well tonight.

Solo - sound like you're making real positive progress with the belt. Nice work! Here is the link to my vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj1ahVQta_g
I've been working hard on my hovering and making good progress. hovered a whole pack side-in the other day. now I can almost do the other side so it's getting there.

I wanted to share my ups and downs for the day tooday. I had some buisness today in Union city and then Rising sun. all in all it's about 300 miles of driving. Well i arrived in Rising Sun about 45 minutes early for my meeting and happened to find a park with a football field all mowed and everything. I just couldn't resist. (Yes I take my helis everywhere you just never know when you may have a chance) The wind there was about 2-5 mph so I was all too happy to get out the falcon. Started out doing some small, slow circles and figure 8's with no problem. Made it through half a pack that way and then just couldn't help myself....I hit the gas. At first it was a bit sketchy but it only took me a couple of passes to realize that if you keep the nose down the falcon will cook. I mean fast!!! what a rush I actually got it too far out on my first pass lost contact. She just started spinning and then crashed. Was only about 3' up at the time and not moving too fast yet so no damage. After that it was on. I was buzzing it back and forth with stall turns at each end very similar to what Randy had going in his video. Pack started to get low so i brought it back let the motors cool and went again. This time was much better. I was rolling. Did I mention that the falcon will move? More stall turns and even threw a couple of piros at the top of the stall and thanks to all the tips in Randy's post was flying it down from high up instead of dropping throttle. It's a blast to swoop down from 20' to about 5' at full speed pull up and head out to the next turn. I actually got so close to the ground in my first pack that I heard the tail rotor clip the mowed grass as i was pulling up And then it happened. I was doing a nose down pass and a small gust piched the nose down to about 30 degrees. I put on full throttle and pulled up but gravity won this one. I hit the ground nose down at a very high rate of speed only about 10' in front of where I was standing. I saw in what appeared to be slow motion my brand new canopy fly totally in half. Damage was really surprisingly light though. Canopy, 1 blade, broken tail boom, and actuall broke one of the carbon rods I put onto the superskids support. I'll post some pics of the aftermath. Well during repairs I put a new rod onto the SS support replaced and balanced blades and then a wildcard. i had a CPP tail boom which is 5mm so it fits but is about 1.5" longer than the falcon stock boom. I decided not to cut it and what a difference in tail authority. It's overall more stable in flight and has no problem keeping up. I never would have thought that 1.5" would make such a big difference. didn't do anything for my COG though. I had to tape a quarter into my canopy (which is now mostly packing tape) to get a good balance but I did get it. At any rate i would consider today a success. the Falcon is a blast to fly outside when you have some space and height to go. I found that my FFF was not nearly as controlled as Randy's but flying at around 20' up gives me room to make a mistake or two before it crashes and I usually do make a mistake or two but find the right stick inputs to get her back. enjoy the pics. The pic with the whole heli show my new design for a curved tail boom. i'm selling em real cheap if anyone would like one.



Cool stuff UTM! Told ya you would get a rush once ya started FFF Congrats on getting there so very quickly also! You know, everything you experienced and wrote about is in my reports a few days ago with my vid. (except the crashing part ). I'm very glad you learned, and remembered to fly it down instead of chopping the throttle or you would have been in deep doodoo Makes me feel very good to think that I may have helped you in some small way on your first day of FFF

Here is a bit of good news. The very next time you try FFF again the jitters will be gone and you will do 3X better than you did today! You are over the "hump" friend, congrats once again!

Now I'll watch that vid. you posted. Is it the same one from a few days ago? I'll just go check myself

(in reply to UTM)
       Post #: 1326

RE: ... - 5/10/2008 6:37:07 AM   
RMG2


 

Posts: 516
Joined: 8/13/2004
From: Private, OR, USA
Status: offline 		Hey Max, where are you? Gotta question for you please.

Since I am getting very close to buying a CP I am starting to think about all sorts of stuff related to a CP heli. Question is..., is it very hard to flip inverted and hold with negative pitch? Which way are you flipping to get inverted? Are you rolling to inverted, or are ya flipping the heli on it's back with positive cyclic, or what? This is a whole new "can of worms" for me and I can't wait to stick my hand in it and dig out a fat wriggly one

Share buddy, spill it all so I don't have to buy as many parts as you

(in reply to RMG2)
       Post #: 1327

RE: ... - 5/10/2008 1:20:23 PM   
soloboss


 

Posts: 1472
Joined: 9/17/2006
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Status: offline 		Wolf and RMG2
I'm running about -3° so I may be OK if I get into a problem. On that subject I'm just learning to fly this beast so altitude and 'fly away' from a rouge gust is not likely - yet. As I get better and fly higher and farther away, I'm sure I'll be retuning to the more normal CP settings.
One of the problems that I'm having is my response time. I'm used to the response of the very light weight Falcon. This is a whole new ballgame and I'm not in tune with the controls yet.
I'm sure the +6° / -6° setting is required for inverted flight, and I'm sure I don't want to go there yet. Oh, and I responded to a PM from Gpach and he was asking questions about my lack of response from the helicopter. I expect to find that I have a setup problem somewhere and that's what is causing my slow response at the servos.

I do intend to learn to fly this bird with the 'correct' settings eventually. The settings I'm using now are just to get me into the air. Yep it's a crutch, but I'll start with the crutch, then learn to walk and eventually I'll run. And remember that this whole thing is an attempt at explanation for the guys following this thread who don't have programmable radios.

I really appreciate the knob that lets me control the + / - balance. My first two attempts at flight got me too close to hard stuff, so I cut the throttle as I would do with the Falcon. With 6° negative pitch available, that's a really bad idea - hard on blades. The -3 / +11 keeps me out of the LHS. When I work past rookie status, I'll work toward the more normal settings.

Good comments- thank you!



_____________________________

Soloboss
If everyone''s thinking alike, then somebody isn''t thinking . . . G. Patton

(in reply to Wolfpackin)
       Post #: 1328

RE: ... - 5/10/2008 2:31:34 PM   
xyster101


 

Posts: 601
Joined: 8/7/2007
From: Marysville, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Sorry guys, I have been busy spinning wooden bowls at work on the lathe, was waiting for parts. I actually started to watch "Heroes" on netflix as I fix the heli, neat show. I have the bird about 90% back together, just need to trim it out . Spent $100 at the hobby store on parts, but I hope that is enough for at least one if not 2 more crashes. I need to take it easy, that was an expensive crash.

Solo, excellent to hear you are back in the air. It is a rush with that thing spinning. The faster the blades are going the faster the response time. Think of it as one giant plane wing in a circle at those speeds. After about 5 batteries you should be good for some "hover drifting" around the yard where you just hover at eye level and walk around with it. That is what it took me when I got the b400 and hovered in the gym.

UTM, excellent work! You have got me stoked to get my FP machine outside, everytime I have gone outside with the FP machine the wind takes it away, but that was with hovering. With the B400 down, the FP has been calling me.


Crusader, nice body choice and post more pictures. We enjoy seeing what you guys have to deal with. It is nice you get a break from all that hell over there. If those mortar barricades are in the way, just go higher but watch out for rockets

(in reply to soloboss)
       Post #: 1329

RE: ... - 5/10/2008 2:51:02 PM   
xyster101


 

Posts: 601
Joined: 8/7/2007
From: Marysville, OH, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RMG2

Since I am getting very close to buying a CP I am starting to think about all sorts of stuff related to a CP heli. Question is..., is it very hard to flip inverted and hold with negative pitch? Which way are you flipping to get inverted? Are you rolling to inverted, or are ya flipping the heli on it's back with positive cyclic, or what? This is a whole new "can of worms" for me and I can't wait to stick my hand in it and dig out a fat wriggly one

Share buddy, spill it all so I don't have to buy as many parts as you



Inverted Fun

First off I have not actually hovered inverted, just flipped inverted then back again. Practice it on a sim because some controls are reversed and others are not. Then do nose in inverted and it changes again! I can't hover in the sim more then about 2 minutes before I crash.

First to go inverted hover about 6-10 feet up and flip the Idle up switch. Run some packs with this setting because the heli is much different in idle up mode. It is more responsive no matter what you do and it never "levels" itself back out. If you are banked, it stays that way until you put it back or it will fall to the ground. I actually enjoy Idle up as the heli is very easy to control and if you get in trouble it does not take much to level the heli back. It is very responsive.
Now you are comfortable flying idle up I did it this way. Go up about 50 feet and do one of the following:

FF Way:
Fly forward at a decent speed
Pull back on the right stick
When the heli is nose to the sky, drop the throttle to mid way (no pitch)
Keep the right stick back, as the heli turns over give some negative pitch with the throttle and center the right stick. You are now inverted. At this point I just pull the right stick back again after about 1 second and the heli will continue the loop. This is more of a stalled loop way, but neat anyway. Since I can not hover on the sim I do not want to try it outdoors yet.

Roll way: Here you can do a bit more
Go up about 50 feet again
From a hover I slide the heli to the right with the right stick. Once the heli is moving give it full throttle and full right stick
As the heli tips, keep full right and once the rotors are at about 4 o'clock give it 25% throttle or less to give it -5% or full negative pitch
You are now inverted, but I don't stop, I just keep the right stick pinned to the right and the heli will continue to rotate clockwise
As it rotates past 9pm I push the throttle back to the mid point and into the positive area and reduce the right stick back to center.
If you keep the right stick pinned right, you can repeat this flip a few times which I do. It is easy to do as long as you stop doing it when the heli is level.

RMG, I have tried once to actually hover inverted and lost orientation and it slammed into the ground (last crash). If you are up 50 feet or so, that is plenty of room to catch an error. The guys at the local flying field said the heli was doing great and I looked in control, but not coordinated. The heli was doing what I wanted, flips, rolls, piros, just not in a graceful manner. I would recommend to practice Idle up, it is not that scarey after the first battery, and after a pack try a loop. They are easy and fast. Then as you are decent at the loop, practice stalling at the crest of the loop a little. I can stall for about a second and will work up. I have no patience and want to do it all NOW, which is why I crash a lot. The side rolls are easy too. None of these are advance manuvers and if you keep the heli moving through the stunt you will not have a problem. I think I did over 50 loops and rolls where I did not stop. The one time I tried to stop inverted, gravity won (it was my tx I swear!).
Soon you will be doing this:



haha, yeah right!


(in reply to RMG2)
       Post #: 1330

RE: St... - 5/10/2008 5:41:45 PM   
gene465



Posts: 275
Joined: 7/14/2004
From: Milton, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Whoops!

_____________________________

T-Rex 450SE X 2, 450SA, Hawker Sea Fury 400, Lancair ES, Ultra Mini Stick, Taylorcraft 450.

(in reply to xyster101)
       Post #: 1331

RE: St... - 5/10/2008 7:21:26 PM   
RMG2


 

Posts: 516
Joined: 8/13/2004
From: Private, OR, USA
Status: offline 		Solo, when I get my first CP I'll be setting-up normal mode pretty much like you did and for the same reasons. Starting out I don't want to pull down on the stick and have the heli slam into the ground with 3000RPM head speed!

Max, thanks for the detailed tutorial on how to perform basic 3D! Sounds like one of the most important things to remember is to keep enough altitude to absorb at least one mistake!

If I read your post correctly you are setup with -5 negative as max. negative pitch, not the full -11?

(in reply to gene465)
       Post #: 1332

RE: St... - 5/10/2008 11:17:11 PM   
Wolfpackin


 

Posts: 953
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: Avon, CO, USA
Status: offline 		RMG & Solo,


quote:

The -3 / +11 keeps me out of the LHS. When I work past rookie status, I'll work toward the more normal settings.


FYI, that is a very standard normal pitch curve.
You don't want any more negative pitch than that in Normal mode.
Finless Bob suggests a normal pitch curve of 40-45-50-75-100 which equates to approx. -2 to +10 depending on what your full collective pitch range is.

quote:

Run some packs with this setting because the heli is much different in idle up mode. It is more responsive no matter what you do and it never "levels" itself back out.


I don't see this at all.
The reason? Because I also use the suggested Finless throttle curve for normal mode, 0-50-80-90-100.

So:
My pitch curves match perfectly at half stick and above.
40-45-50-75-100 Normal
0-25-50-75-100 Idle up
And my throttle curves are the same at 1/2 stick and above.
0-50-80-90-100 Normal
100-90-80-90-100 Idle up.

When I throw the idle up switch at 1/2 stick or above nothing happens, I don't see or feel anything because the settings are exactly the same on the curves.
To be honest I've only switched to stunt three times because I don't need the negative pitch yet.
But, I've trained myself to fly with Idle up like curves in Normal mode. So it's no big deal flying in Idle up except for the increased negative pitch below 1/2 stick.

I don't know why more people don't setup their heli like this.
Maybe the head speed is intimidating or they're trying to get longer run times.
But I'll go with whatever Finless Bob says.
Put it this way for you RCU long timers.
Finless Bob is to collective pitch helis as Soloboss is to the CX2.

Hope that helps someone.

(in reply to RMG2)
       Post #: 1333

RE: ... - 5/10/2008 11:21:04 PM   
xyster101


 

Posts: 601
Joined: 8/7/2007
From: Marysville, OH, USA
Status: offline 		No, I am set with the stock settings, -11, but with a general loop you don't need full -11, so I don't pull the stick all the way down. When doing right or left rolls I do pull the stick all the way down, it is neat to watch the heli go higher when inverted. The biggest thing is to have space and one of the hardest things when up higher is keeping the thing oriented right. I have lost orientation a few times and went to FF to figure which way was the front.

(in reply to RMG2)
       Post #: 1334

RE: ... - 5/10/2008 11:45:39 PM   
jmhh


 

Posts: 242
Joined: 4/17/2007
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		RE: Newbie HB FP Questions

Thanks to SoloBoss for getting me to this forum...just got a HB FP
and wondering what to do to it to make chances of survival better...
realize that topic probably covered in the past 53 pages but just too
busy right now to read all that, but will soon... in the meantime, have read
that changing main blades may help... don't a want to change motors
right now if can help it...so, is there a set of blades that will help out a
newbie with hover that work well with the stock motor?...and anything
else a newb can do to increase chances of succss other than RADD's
and a SIM...familiar with all that....thanks for any help...John H.

(in reply to xyster101)
       Post #: 1335

RE: ... - 5/11/2008 12:03:37 AM   
xyster101


 

Posts: 601
Joined: 8/7/2007
From: Marysville, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Super Skids will help you out a lot and replacing the cheap wire struts with some CF pieces when you do get it. That is the best upgrade you can do. Then just take it slow and find a large area indoors to learn. 2 car garage, gym, warehouse, Wal Mart garden center.

(in reply to jmhh)