RE: 25% Cessna L-19/0-1 Bird Dog build  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Warbirds and Warplanes >> RE: 25% Cessna L-19/0-1 Bird Dog build
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RE: 25% Cessna L-19/0-1 Bird Dog build - 1/17/2008 2:12:36 AM   
Rmerritte


 

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Chic,
Just noticed you are also retired military. Me too. I had a question last week by email. Am doing a L-19. Oh , i forgot what I emailed to you! Later
Randall

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RE: 25% Cessna L-19/0-1 Bird Dog build - 1/17/2008 4:50:57 AM   
khodges


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rmerritte

Ref the mods of former 5 and 6. I see pretty clear #6 but am a bit confused on #5! What is the distance across top of #5?



Randall, the #5 former is 11-5/8" across the top per the plans. After the revision, it is 9-3/8". See the pic below; green is the former #5 as cut per the plans, the red area is what it is modified to. The lower portion is unchanged.

The wing root per the plans is straight from L.E. to T.E. As I havemodified it, the root edge will make an angle starting at former #4. This brings the plans into a more scale rendition of the full scale. Note the pictures of the rear of the cabin area at the top windows and how the wing root angles in here. This change will also require revising the wing and the inner ends of the flaps, but all it involves is making the end angled instead of square, like the plans show.

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Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

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RE: 25% Cessna L-19/0-1 Bird Dog build - 1/17/2008 12:24:24 PM   
redtail


 

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Heck, I should of held off on building my "Dawg", where were you Ken when I needed you. Smile. Keep up the great effort for true scale, maybe my next "Dawg" will be even better because of you. Chic

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RE: 25% Cessna L-19/0-1 Bird Dog build - 1/18/2008 12:30:41 AM   
khodges


 

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I don't know, Chic. Maybe by the time I build it, after all the changes I'm making, it will look more like a Beech Bonanza . But nice of you to think so.

Here's another change. The lower end of the rudder on the plans is either too low, or the fuse bottom comes in a bit too high. Either way, there is little room for the tailwheel assembly to fit like it should, like it does on the full-scale. Rather than recut all the fuse formers for the benefit of a half inch more room at the rear, I re-cut the rudder shape; it's hardly noticeable against how it is on the plans, and I can't see a noticeable difference in my photos; but it gives the needed room to put in a more scale tailwheel spring and mount. The original is on the left, and is marked in red where the new bottom contour is made. There is also a cutout in the rudder post now for the elevator connector to pass through. The full scale only has one control arm for the elevator, on the left. The model is set up for two horns, one for each elevator half.See the pics below.

I also decided to include the rudder counterbalance in the ply former, to add a bit of strength in an area that is vulnerable. Every plane I have owned (all taildraggers except for my first trainer) I have at some time or other ground-looped and / or flipped over. When the tail hits, the overhung rudder always takes the beating and usually breaks. Hopefully, I'll never flip this one, but reality bites and I figure I'll try to build in a little protection. The rudder post will get notched for this ply to fit through, and the balance gets built up on either side with balsa. As per the plans, the balance is all balsa and just glues to the front of the rudder post.

At the bottom of the rudder former, I expanded the ply area for extra strength where the control arms will go. The plans have you glue a ply block between ribs for this, and it isn't even in the scale area. Scale location is the lower corner at the end of the rudder post.

One last change.The ribs are wrong. Where the 4th rib up from the bottom is on the plans is actually a panel line with rivets, and the rib spacing is uneven here. The there are 13 more ribs to the top and the 14th rib on the plans is another panel line with rivets. So I re-spaced the ribs to allow for these panel lines, and also made provisions for the marker light and trim tab, which aren't on the plans at all. It might be difficult to tell in the picture, but the new rib lines are in black, as opposed to the blue lines of the plans.

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< Message edited by khodges -- 1/18/2008 12:34:26 AM >


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RE: 25% Cessna L-19/0-1 Bird Dog build - 1/20/2008 12:00:34 AM   
khodges


 

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I worked today on making changes to the H stab and elevator. The stab is fine as is, but the elevator will get a contour change, a rod that will connect the halves, and the right half will get a trim tab. Later, when final details that aren't structural get added, I will add the "bullets" to the stab L.E. that are the FM antennae mounts. The antennae stick up and down, and I'm still thinking on what to use so the bottom ones don't get bent or cause damage when they get drug in grass.

If you look at the rear view, you'll notice that the inside edges of the elevators are parallel to the ribs and the curve starts a bit back from the hinge line, Vailly's plans have the curve starting at the hinge line. My revision corrects this, and the trailing edge former can be used as is, with a small piece taken from the inside corner at the hinge line. Where the revised curve adds a bit to the elevator, it can be filled with balsa, or the skins will meet there anyway, it doesn't need the extra material in lite ply (what the T.E. former is made of).

The connector rod is made from 1/2" wooden dowel, and extends from former E-3 to the opposite E-3. E-2 gets trimmed to allow the rod to pass through them. The hinge spar will get trimmed so that the rod can "nest" into it. The way I'll do that is to take a piece of 7/16" rod with sandpaper and sand a curved space for the 1/2' rod to fit. The rod will also have a collar to the left side that the elevator control horn will mount to. I'm not sure whether I'll make them from metal or wood, but they will get a screw and maybe fiberglass reinforcement to the dowel; this area will have all the aerodynamic stress from elevator deflection focused here, so it needs to be strong.

The trim tab goes on the right elevator half, and consists of a hinged (on the full scale) sub-surface within the elevator that can be adjusted from the cockpit and an additional tab that extends behind the trailing edge and serves to give the tab more authority. This extra piece varied in size on different variants, dependent on the gross weight. The tab on the model won't be adjustable, but it will be cut free from the elevator and then reattached, with clearance around the edges. I don't have the bottom view pics as yet, but the control linkage will be simulated. I'm also waiting on some photos before I add the hinge details. My plan for both the rudder and elevator hinges is to have a single, long rod that will insert from the top, on the rudder, and from one side on the elevator and pass through the hinges. The hinge wire will have a small bend on one end that can be buried in the skin to conceal it, but accessible if the control surfaces need removal for maintenance or repair

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< Message edited by khodges -- 1/20/2008 12:09:39 AM >


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RE: 25% Cessna L-19/0-1 Bird Dog build - 1/20/2008 12:42:27 AM   
vogel605


 

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Hello Ken,
Here's a pic of my L-19 done in Artic colors. These were taken prior to final finishing (struts etc.) She flies great with a G-23, u just have to be proficent with the left stick. Good luck with the build. Have a great day.
Barry[image][/image]

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RE: 25% Cessna L-19/0-1 Bird Dog build - 1/20/2008 1:35:13 AM   
khodges


 

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Thanks for the pics, Barry. With a G-23, yours must be the 1/5 scale, right? I'm almost wishing mine was the 1/5 instead of the 1/4; I haven't got a clue where I'll store the thing after it's done. I guess there will be some hooks in the ceiling down the road.

That's a good looking model, I'll bet it's easy to see when flying. That's the one thing I worry about with an O.D. scheme, that it will keep me squinting, trying to tell top from bottom . Actually, the undersides of the O.D. planes was gray.

I have a Bud Nosen trainer, has a 96" wing, weighs 22 pounds and is set up as a tail dragger. The planform is very similar to the BirdDog, so I hope by flying it, I won't have too steep a learning curve with the 0-1.

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RE: 25% Cessna L-19/0-1 Bird Dog build - 1/20/2008 4:38:14 PM   
redtail


 

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Ken, dog gone it, I'm filing all these changes for my next Bird Dog build. Smile. I also connected my elevators with a dowel and as you see in the pictures on page 1 of this thread, I also cut in an elevator tab with the tab placed on the bottom of the elevator side. Your changes are right on even though it is too late for me to incorporate several of those changes. The cigar tubes worked great, I went through several tubes to get the right airfoil shape cut into them. I gave the cigars to my flying friends. I used a balsa plug and wheel collars to mount the FM antennas. They will be removable for travel. Trying to find a quote "rod" that is also flexible instead of mounting copper tubing which I displayed in my pictures of my bird. Keep up the great work, your diligence will result in a great looking model. Note: the Zenoah 45 is a perfect fit with a Pitts muffler. Chic

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RE: 25% Cessna L-19/0-1 Bird Dog build - 1/20/2008 4:48:31 PM   
redtail


 

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Ken I forgot to say that I modified the flaps to hide the control horns. I did not want the control horns sitting on top of the wing as per the plans. I did not think that looked good or was scale like. They work great and very smooth. Because of the location of the flap hinges per Roy's plans, I mounted the control horn of the flaps near the top of leading edge of the flaps which is well hidden by the overlapping wing trailing edge that the flaps sit under. The leverage given the flaps because of the dropped hinge location, works great and now provides a hidden location of the control horns. The only control horns sticking out is the ailerons, the scale location of the elevator control horn on the left rear, and the scale location for the rudder control horns. Chic

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RE: 25% Cessna L-19/0-1 Bird Dog build - 1/20/2008 5:25:31 PM   
khodges


 

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Thanks, Chic. I am also planning to hide the flap linkage. I've been studying the angles involved to figure on how much leverage I'll lose, but with a 132 oz./in. servo operating each flap, I don't think it will matter. Roy's plans state for 45 degrees full deployment, but I'm going for the scale 60 degrees.

While we're on this kind of subject, what servos did you use for all your surfaces? I've always been a Futaba man, so I'm sticking with them for this plane as well. This is what I'm looking at:

Rudder, elevator and flaps---S9206. Std size, 2 ball bearings, coreless motor and metal gears, 132 oz./in. torque, 4.8V only
Ailerons---S9402. Std size, 2 ball bearings, coreless motor, metal gears, 89 oz./in. at 4.8V
Throttle--S3001 precision. good basic servo, plenty for a gas throttle.

Too much, too little? I certainly would rather go the overkill route than not enough. I really don't feel a need for digitals, this isn't a high performance plane and don't need the speed or holding power.

Oh, and the CD will go out in tomorrow's mail back to you, and I am including templates for #5 and #6 formers. I made a few notes on them and since you've already built one, you will see what other mods have to be made to the airfoiled root piece that glues inside the cabin. It will have to be notched at #4 to allow it to make the angle possible, and the cabin sides will also require a relief "kerf cut" along the same line, just down to the line of the kerf cut called for by the plans. What happens here is the top of the cabin just above the rear side window should make a more gradual curve, but the root area must make a sudden angle. I can see it in my mind, especially after looking at several of the shots on that CD, and I will post pictures and a detailed explanation when I get to that point.

< Message edited by khodges -- 1/20/2008 5:29:49 PM >


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RE: 25% Cessna L-19/0-1 Bird Dog build - 1/21/2008 4:53:22 PM   
redtail


 

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Ken, you and I have become attached so I won't hold the "Futaba" thing against ya. To be truthful, at the time I was selecting servos, I was replacing all the windows in the house and did not have alot of extra money so I opted for mostly Hitec servos, they were an online bargain that I could not pass up. For the ailerons, I have 625MG's installed, for the flaps, I have 645MG's installed, for the rudder and elevators, I have 755's installed, for the payload drops (duffle bags with parachutes) I had several Ace 8107's needing employment, and finally for the throttle, as a JR man, I had to install at least one JR servo and I went with the DS821. My transmitter is the JR 10X with the Spectrum module. I'll run a heavy duty switch and two batteries (redundancy for power). The Zenoah 45 doesn't need an ignition battery so we are good there. I have rec'd emails from other really great builders interested in our work, mostly thanks to your sincere efforts to maintain scale so keep up the great work Ken. By the way, no one will ever see it but my elevator trim tab looks perfect in its ceremonial inert station. Chic

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