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UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 4/13/2003 8:19:58 PM   
bdb5


 

Posts: 8
Joined: 10/3/2002
From: Tonawanda, NY, USA
Status: offline 		PLease explain then to me, if youi have the time

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 26

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 4/13/2003 8:41:07 PM   
bdb5


 

Posts: 8
Joined: 10/3/2002
From: Tonawanda, NY, USA
Status: offline 		I read the rules, still don't get it???

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 27

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 4/13/2003 10:28:45 PM   
Ben Lanterman



Posts: 1284
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: St. Charles, MO, USA
Status: offline 		bdb5 - The rules (which I can't load for some reason) have given the students a set of requirements. From what I can gather by just reading this thread the airplane has to fit into a box of a given size. Apparently there are points for taking the airplane out of the box and setting it up. The airplanes need to carry weight or something similiar. Takeoffs have to be within a certain distance. Presentations are made to a judging panel. Power plants are restricted.

It is not just fly around in a circle with any airplane. With all of those limitations imposed on the design you end up with one similar to the one shown. Of course it is not the only design possible but it is a viable one.

The average airplane at the flying field doing 3D, etc. will fail in a most gruesome manner in one or more of the requirements.

Once you have the airplane loaded and flying you find that making just a few circuits aboutl the field is a real challenge, not just a trivial thing.

I think TallPaul expected you to work this out if you had read the rules.


_____________________________

Ben Lanterman

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 28

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 4/13/2003 10:34:16 PM   
Tall Paul



Posts: 4664
Joined: 6/23/2002
From: Palmdale, CA, USA
Status: offline 		The AIAA plane is electric powered.
The power pack can weigh 5 pounds.
The 2003 plane must carry another 5 pounds. (2002 it was 24 softballs)
The plane must fit in a 1x2x4 foot box.
It must take off, fly several laps including a 360 degree turn each lap.
Basically there's 18 to 20+ pounds to be considered, that has to take off in 120 feet.
These are difficult requirements.
There's a high-point count task which has the plane fly the laps -and- release the payload "autonomously" after landing.
This adds complexity.
.
SAE requires a specific motor, and a wingspan limitation. 6 feet, very short.
The plane must take off within 200 feet, do a 360 (2 180s) and land.
Again, these planes will gross out over 20 pounds. Airframe weight is not considered as part of the score. The amount of weight added counts.
A simpler task, but stretches the limits of the plane's controllabiliity because of the need to carry more weight than anyone else.
AIAA doing the task at all is a feat.
SAE predicting and achieving the predicted weight matters more.
There is no similarity between 3D flying and lifting. Although some of the terminal attitudes achieved before impact in lifting are similar.

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 29

Let me sum up... - 4/13/2003 10:39:18 PM   
Jeremy Sebens


 

Posts: 91
Joined: 4/22/2002
From: Champaign, IL, USA
Status: offline 		The airplanes are scored on several factors. A mission score is made up of the following formula:

Difficulty Factor/(Mission time+assembly time+Rated Aircraft Cost)

The assembly time is the time it takes the team to remove the airplane from a 1'X2'X4' box and assemble it into a flightworthy condition.

The Rated Aircraft Cost (RAC) is based on a complicated formula involving the size, wieght, and propulsion system of the aircraft.

Our aircraft has been designed to trade of between these requirements in the hopes of maximizing our score. It goes together quickly, has a moderately low RAC, and flies pretty quickly. Based on the new, improved flying qualities of the aircraft, I expect we'll do well at the competition.

More later, but I've got to go fly it now!

And it's not unconventional - just stubby. There's still an engine up front, a wing in the middle, and a tail in back - it's just the proportions that are odd.

Please try not to criticize the design work of what I consider a talented group that it has been a privilege to work with unless you understand the (extremely complex) mission requirements. There is a very good reason that a Pilatus Porter (which our airplane vaguely resembles) looks different from an Extra 330L. Neither would perform the other's mission well.

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 30

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 4/15/2003 5:50:44 AM   
Tall Paul



Posts: 4664
Joined: 6/23/2002
From: Palmdale, CA, USA
Status: offline 		The U of MD is flying.... kinda...
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/tm.asp?m=694952]

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 31

DBF is TOUGH - 4/15/2003 9:40:42 AM   
matlok



Posts: 515
Joined: 2/24/2002
From: Tupelo, MS, USA
Status: offline 		Hey guys -

Looking great!..... I think most people who see this stuff don't realize how much work goes into it, especially design-wise. There's just a lot on the table to deal with and still be competetive. I was on the MSU team last year (builder/pilot) but have trasferred to another school and won't be competing anymore. I really wish I could do it again though....

Good luck with the contest!

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 32

Howdy! - 4/15/2003 10:56:50 PM   
Jeremy Sebens


 

Posts: 91
Joined: 4/22/2002
From: Champaign, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Hey there, Matt! It's Jeremy! How's life these days?

Guys, matlok was the only reason we actually got a plane in the air at MSU last year - he put in far more work on the construction than anyone else on the team - including me. He also did a great job of piloting the aircraft to a great finish considering her endurance troubles.

_____________________________

Landing: Contest of strength between planet and aircraft.
NOTE: To date, planet remains undefeated.

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 33

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 4/16/2003 11:44:45 PM   
matlok



Posts: 515
Joined: 2/24/2002
From: Tupelo, MS, USA
Status: offline 		Hey dude! I didn't even realize it was you! So howz things at IL?? Looks like DBF is going great. I transferred to DSU to do Flight Ops, and right now I'm about 2 weeks away from my Private checkride. Almost done w/my big Edge too - I've had a few projects in-between plus school and work, so that's why she's not done yet. I'll have to send you some pics when it's finished. Speaking of pics, do you have any from last year you can e-mail me? The only ones I have are the 3 from the AIAA/DBF website.

I'll mail you later - good luck again!

Matt

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 34

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 4/17/2003 12:22:56 AM   
MarkVZ


 

Posts: 32
Joined: 10/30/2002
From: Starkville, MS,
Status: offline 		Hey guys..

Your school's plane looks great Jeremy. I like the looks of the taildragger configuration.

Here at Mississippi State U we're almost finished with our 2nd plane. Ater the tragic loss of our prototype (which you saw firsthand, Jeremy) our 2nd plane will be finished now just a mere 2 weeks from start of construction. We've cut nearly 3 pounds from our previous weight and our assembly time is a fraction of what it used to be. Needless to say we used a different wing joiner assembly I also made a new cowling assembly which makes this one less boxy.

Well back to Patterson until late tonight.. we've gotta get this one in the air by this weekend. My life is covering for the next few days

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 35

Good to hear! - 4/17/2003 2:04:44 AM   
Jeremy Sebens


 

Posts: 91
Joined: 4/22/2002
From: Champaign, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Where'd you guys cut the weight? 3 pounds is a LOT! Well done! That puts your plane right at the same weight as ours. We've still got a bigger wing, though, so NYAAAAH!

Did you get the warp pulled out of that wing OK? Ah, the joys of Monokote!

I'm looking forward to seeing you guys at competition. This year should definitely be interesting. Tell everyone hi for me.

_____________________________

Landing: Contest of strength between planet and aircraft.
NOTE: To date, planet remains undefeated.

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 36

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 4/17/2003 8:20:33 AM   
matlok



Posts: 515
Joined: 2/24/2002
From: Tupelo, MS, USA
Status: offline 		MarkVZ,

Sorry to hear about the first plane, but man that's great y'all got the 2nd one going so quick! If you don't mind, e-mail me and let me know when ya'll plan on test flying again - I'd like to come watch and see how ya'll are doing! Tell Viva and everybody I said hi.

Matt
[email]mphilli1@dsucp.deltastate.edu[/email]

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 37

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 4/17/2003 10:59:20 AM   
MarkVZ


 

Posts: 32
Joined: 10/30/2002
From: Starkville, MS,
Status: offline 		Hey guys..

It looks like we'll be a predicted 2.25 pounds under the weight of the last plane after concluding my work for the night. I got the wings covered and trimmed and we're closing in on the fuselage. I was up there for 10+ hours today, which is not an uncommon thing lately.

The 2+ pounds came from several places. The main thing was our switch to a carbon-fiber tube wing joiner assembly. We eliminated our center-section all together and the wings plug into the fuselage.

I re-designed the tail from the trailing edge rearwards, constructing it fully from balsa, and it turned out stiffer and lighter than the former lite-ply assembly. We used thinner sheet pieces in the wings, and just generally did things right the first time, which means less glue

The wing structure is so much stronger now. We stacked 25+ pounds of weight on the fuselage and picked it up by the tips no problem. I love carbon fiber

The slight warp came out of the left wing after we soaked the LE sheeting, jigged it and heated it with a high-temp heat gun. Thanks for your advice.

You can watch our progress on this page which Bryan made for us:

[URL=http://www.ae.msstate.edu/~blg/dbf/swag_pics/]SWAG Building Marathon[/URL]

Mike, I'm putting in a full day tomorrow in hopes of taxi testing Friday and flying on Saturday. Give us your number and we can let you know.

I'm looking forward to competition as well. I'm really interested in seeing how other teams handled the design constraints and how we could have done thing better.

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 38

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 4/17/2003 11:09:17 AM   
MarkVZ


 

Posts: 32
Joined: 10/30/2002
From: Starkville, MS,
Status: offline 		Oh, by the way, are we allowed to use spinners according to the rules? I don't feel like digging through the ambiguities that are the rules right now

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 39