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UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 6/25/2003 10:19:16 AM   
MarkVZ


 

Posts: 32
Joined: 10/30/2002
From: Starkville, MS,
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David,

Thanks for the comments. .

I wish I would have talked to more people too. I just mostly silently observed other teams' entries. I didn't want to ask too many questions and seem nosey, but in hindsight I'm sure they wouldn't have thought that.

I did catch up with some of the guys from Western Michigan University. I had originally planned on going there till I found out about Miss. State. I'm from northern Michigan so I happened to be one of two "yankees" on a team of southerners, but they treat me just like anyone else and they make me feel at home there. They make fun of my "northern accent" once in a while but that's about it I made the mistake of saying "ya, you betchya!" in front of some of my teammates once and they laughed at me. Oh well. I never knew I had any accent till I lived in the south for a while.

Anyways it was interesting to see how well the school I was planning on going to did. I found out that they don't even let freshmen into their DBF class so I wouldn't have even been able to go to the competition this year had I gone there! Just some things I get to find out after I make my decisions.

I found the guys from Canada to be particularly friendly and outgoing. They seemed to have the most laid-back view on things and didn't seem to get flustered by anything. A really great bunch of guys.

I have a lot of memories from this competition that I'll never forget. We had our plane in our hotel room and were reinforcing the landing gear mounts with some aluminum and heavy duty contact cement and we were getting pretty goofy from the fumes. Or having to find a way to muffle the sounds of our drills so as not to alert the hotel management; also many late late nights me and my teammates put into getting our 2nd plane built in the two weeks we had left after our first plane got destroyed. Our faculty advisor left his video camera with us in the DBF room to film our progress periodically and I bet we could make a hilarious "out-takes" film from that footage. We'd stick people in our assembly box and when someone would come in to see what our project was about, we'd tell em to look at the assembly box at which time the guy inside would pop out and scare the daylights out of the visitor. After destroying our first plane, we found the assembly box was great for collecting the pieces. We called it "the casket" as it had 4 brass handles and was stained dark, and had a red felt lining. I believe we carried our wrecked prototype off the field pallbearer style

I would spend some 14 hour days in our DBF room in those final two weeks until one day our chief engineer came in and told us that our hygiene had gone to hell and that she was giving us a day off, no iff's and's or but's. We wanted to work on it and make more progress, but she was firm in her decision. She said we couldn't come in to work on the plane under any circumstances. I grinned a bit so she threw in "and no, you can't take it to your dorm and work on it, Mark!!" She knew me too well, as I had built a small plane in my room earlier that year. So that day us r/c builders, out of the job for a day, decided to get together and fly our own R/C planes. Each of us damaged our planes and our pilot totalled his huge Chipmunk due to raio failure. With our planes rendered unflyable, We figured we'd play a joke on our chief engineer, and we hid all the plane parts in our DBF room very well. Our pilot got an upset phone call from her saying that the plane was gone. (First thing she asked was "Where's Mark?" Apparently, someone had left the doors unlocked and it appeared as if someone had stolen our plane! She wasn't too happy with us, but she allowed us to live She was a great chief engineer and I don't know what we would have done without her. This coming year is going to be tough if we can't convince her to come back.

Our region's AIAA conference in Kitty Hawk was a great time as well. We gave a presentation on our design, but the problem was that our only airframe at the time was destroyed. So we loaded the remains into the assembly box and took them anyways. I was so relieved when they didn't ask our presenting members to open the box to reveal the shattered balsa and shredded monokote mess mixed with some Mississippi mud that was supposed to be the great plane we were giving a presentation on. I later buried a piece of our first prototype near the Wright Brother's memorial as a tribute to our fallen plane.

All in all I think very highly of the whole DBF competition. There was no better way for me as a freshman to get to know upperclassmen in my major, and be able to contribute to and take pride in a school project. Also the interaction with other schools is great, and I think it furthers the engineering skills of everyone involved. I had been building and flying R/C for nearly 7 years when I joined our team, but I still ended up learning a great amount.

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 76

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 6/25/2003 11:28:10 AM   
MarkVZ


 

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From: Starkville, MS,
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Also, did anyone catch Virginia Tech destroying their own airplane? Apparently they were so displeased with it that they smashed it to bits with a hammer and hacksaw. I don't like laughing at other's misfortunes, but they seemed to be enjoying it so I found it pretty amusing.

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 77

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 6/25/2003 11:55:37 AM   
davidfee



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From: San Diego, CA, USA
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Mark,
Oh man, no I didn't see that but it's sad. SDSU did the same a couple years back... left the pieces in a dumpster somewhere. saves on shipping bills, that's for sure!

And your stories bring back a lot of memories. I spent several 14+ hour days working on our plane. The wings alone took an entire 12-hour day! Next time I'm using slave (freshman) labor!

Starfire, thanks man! I updated my little picture page.

I don't know if you guys would be interested, but I wrote an article on the SDSU DBF project for my club newsletter (Silent Electric Flyers of San Diego). I could post it as a .pdf if you'd like to read it. It's not overly technical though, since it was written for the average modeller in the club. Just let me know.

-David

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 78

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 7/31/2003 1:25:32 AM   
davidfee



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The DBF rules for 2004 have been posted:
http://www.aae.uiuc.edu/aiaadbf/2004_rules.html

...time to get busy...

-David

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 79

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 7/31/2003 6:10:53 AM   
MarkVZ


 

Posts: 32
Joined: 10/30/2002
From: Starkville, MS,
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This one looks like a lot of fun. Even though my team had the best assembly time of any team last year, I'm glad to see that aspect gone. We must have spent nearly 50% of our building time on engineering the latching mechanisms. Plus, I fear that several of the planes went down due to inadequate latching mechanisms in an attempt to make the plane easy to assemble.

I don't mind the box limitation at all anymore since assembly is no longer timed. The longer takeoff distance is welcomed as well.

All in all, I see this year's guidelines to be easier than those of last year. We'll see how it goes though; I may be eating those words

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 80

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 7/31/2003 7:14:21 AM   
Tall Paul



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There is a long-term benefit to this particular specification...
A replacement for the antique airplances currently in use for air-attack is desperately needed..
A UAV type, which might or might not deliver itself to the fire, or disperse the retardant could be cheaper to operate.....
Been thinking on this for a year or so...

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 81

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 7/31/2003 10:41:21 PM   
MarkVZ


 

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From: Starkville, MS,
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I guess, but you're looking at some HUGE UAV's to carry any significant amount of water. Dropping a gallon of water on a fire would be akin to spitting on it. I'm not sure if I want to see heavy UAV's the size of C-130's operating over American soil. Just imagine if one went out of control!

The only practical use I could see for a UAV with a 1 gallon capacity would be something nasty - use your imaginations.

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 82

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 7/31/2003 11:52:36 PM   
davidfee



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From: San Diego, CA, USA
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When I first started reading the rules and got to the "Fire Bomber" line, I was hoping the flight task would be more fun... like flying down to a long "reflecting pool" to scoop up the water, then dump it over a specified target. The real mission seems more like crop-dusting than fire-bombing. Maybe I'll convert my PBY Catalina model and just use that. Looks like the RAC for that situation would be about 6.6

-David

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 83

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 8/1/2003 12:19:17 AM   
MarkVZ


 

Posts: 32
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From: Starkville, MS,
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I was thinking the same thing when reading the rules. Just dumping the water seems rather easy. From last year's contest, it seems like getting things to fall off of the airplane isn't a problem

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 84

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 8/2/2003 9:43:17 PM   
valkyrie1983


 

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From: Urbana, IL, USA
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Hi guys,
I'm a member of the U of I DBF team too. I see Jeremy has been posting on here. I fly mostly indoor free flight models, but electrics also interest me.

As for the new DBF rules; the tasks seem easier this year, but there will be a couple of things that will be tough to overcome. Making the water tanks well sealed yet quickly fillable should be tough. The .5in diameter hole for expelling the water is pretty small, it could take a while to get 4 L out. I'd also be willing to bet that a lot of teams will have trouble flying during the water dump, any water sloshing will play havoc with their stability and control. Lots of teams have control problems without a moving CG. It will definitely be interesting again this year.

~Geoff Bower~

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 85

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 8/2/2003 10:01:39 PM   
Tall Paul



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From: Palmdale, CA, USA
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by MarkVZ
I guess, but you're looking at some HUGE UAV's to carry any significant amount of water. Dropping a gallon of water on a fire would be akin to spitting on it. I'm not sure if I want to see heavy UAV's the size of C-130's operating over American soil. Just imagine if one went out of control!

...
[/QUOTE]
Not really...
The C-130s and P-3 carry 3000 gallons of retardant in several tanks. Each can be emptied selectively.
The image shows a 4-door drop...
3000 gallons works out to somewhere near 24000 #.. closer to 27,000 with the retardant.
A 1-door drop would be 750 gallons, which is only 1000 cu. ft... 10x3x3.
.
A glider... GPS guided, that dumps the retardant wouldn't be all that large..
In discussing this, we find the biggest problems are the econmics of the system... can a disposable system come out cheaper than the current method, and what to make the disposable stuff out of, to keep the tree-huggers happy.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 86

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 8/2/2003 10:12:46 PM   
Tall Paul



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Emptying a non-vented 2L bottle takes 15 seconds. Opening a vent equivalent in size to the exit, 3-4 seconds.

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 87

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 8/3/2003 12:55:00 AM   
davidfee



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From: San Diego, CA, USA
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I fly mostly indoor free flight models, but electrics also interest me.

Hey Geoff,
Welcome to the club! I'm a big FF fan myself, mostly outdoor rubber (F1B mainly). I've spent the last 4 years or so working myself up to F5D electric RC pylon (went through the Speed 400 school). I used to build clockwork mechanisms... now I build brushless motors. Oh, if only there were 48 hours in a day...

-David

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 88

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 8/27/2003 2:57:20 AM   
MarkVZ


 

Posts: 32
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From: Starkville, MS,
Status: offline
Hey David,

Do you guys still have your report for Spirit of Monty online? I wanted to reference a few things. The link is no longer there on the main DBF page.

Thanks

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 89

UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 8/27/2003 3:22:55 AM   
davidfee



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