RE: UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project  
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RE: UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 4/5/2004 4:33:39 AM   
valkyrie1983


 

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From: Urbana, IL, USA
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TallPaul,
Sorry I wasn't clear. The main wheel can only be adjusted on the ground to handle cross wind takeoffs and landings. A similar idea to the B-52, which can have its gear aligned with the runway, even if the nose isn't. Its definitely not a castoring wheel. We have tailwheel control as well, so ground handling shouldn't be non-existant.
The ailerons will be fine, we've used similar setups in years past with no problems. To avoid tip stalling you just have use alot of differential (as you suggested).

Geoff

(in reply to Tall Paul)
       Post #: 101

RE: UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 4/6/2004 6:04:40 AM   
valkyrie1983


 

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From: Urbana, IL, USA
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We taxi tested the plane tonight, it handled beautifully. The pilot said it handled as well as if not better than a tail dragger. We still need to adjust the tail wheel throws a little bit to get a tighter turn radius, but other than that it is looking great. Total weight came in at 9.5 lbs with battery and everything else. Telemetry system was working well. We are all set for the first flight tomorrow, another report to follow.

Geoff

(in reply to valkyrie1983)
       Post #: 102

RE: UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 4/6/2004 6:47:55 AM   
valkyrie1983


 

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From: Urbana, IL, USA
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There are some pictures of our plane and construction as well as a short taxi test movie here:
https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/bhamidip/DBFPictures/

Geoff

(in reply to valkyrie1983)
       Post #: 103

RE: noise reduction - 4/6/2004 12:56:26 PM   
Bjornsen


 

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Hi David,
first of all thanks for your advise. I agree that a tractor prop is generally quieter (It's all about the turbulent flow into the prop, isn't it) But here is the catch: We should create a plane with camera equipment on-board and this should be placed in the front, so we are fairly worried about the centre of weight. We also consider the motor to be right behind the main wing and high enough to avoid turbulent flow created by the main wing. (eg. motor mounted on a pylon) But this would lead to a higher centre of weight and would cause instability, wouldn't it? What Do you think?

Cheers,

Bjorn

(in reply to davidfee)
       Post #: 104

RE: noise reduction - 4/6/2004 6:48:32 PM   
davidfee



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From: San Diego, CA, USA
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Bjorn,
Yes, you're right... it's the turbulent airflow (velocity gradients, etc.) which cause the noise. I understand your requirements better now, and I'd suggest using the pusher configuration, but move the prop as far away from the wing as you can. I would not use a pylon to mount the motor... keep it in the fuselage, but move it back away from the wing and streamline the fuse into the spinner. You may need to extend the nose to maintain balance.

This project deserves its own thread. Good luck with it!


-David

(in reply to Bjornsen)
       Post #: 105

RE: UIUC AIAA Design/Build/Fly Project - 4/6/2004 6:50:12 PM   
davidfee



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From: San Diego, CA, USA
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Geoff,
Looking good! Glad to hear taxi tests went well. Good luck on the flight testing.

Nice work on the carbon D-boxes and carbon-capped ribs. Very professional.

-David

(in reply to valkyrie1983)
       Post #: 106

RE: noise reduction - 4/6/2004 10:41:45 PM   
Tall Paul



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From: Palmdale, CA, USA
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My monowheeled planes taxi OK, it's that awkward time between taxi and getting enough airspeed to fly that gives the ground-loop problems.
Like trying to balance a marble on top of a basketball while walking.
Once the tailwheel leaves the ground, with only one contact point remaining, there's nothing much other than increasing airspeed to where the pointy end wants to be in the front that keeps the thing going straight.
Anxiously awaiting the flight results..

(in reply to Bjornsen)
       Post #: 107

RE: noise reduction - 4/7/2004 12:06:19 AM   
Jeremy Sebens


 

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From: Champaign, IL, USA
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Pilot here... Paul, what you say about monowheels is true - luckily, this plane seems to have enough tail to hold her straight, even before flying speed. While taxi-testing, I gave it a few hard bursts - enough to lift the tail slightly, and at that point, the plane was light enough on its feet that I was afraid of an inadvertent takeoff from the parking lot! We had very straight, stable tracking throughout. Certainly, flight testing will be the final authority, but I'm pretty confident that it'll do OK. Actually, the tipskids act as a stabilizing influence as well. I was going over the testing in my head last night, and in fast straight runs, the plane tended to rock back and forth gently between the two skids. What seems to be happening is that when the plane starts to veer in one direction, the wing to the outside of the incipient turn dips. The skid drags, which produces a resoring moment out of the turn. Angular momentum takes over and we veer slightly to the other side. The process repeates in reverse - lather, rinse, repeat. What this boils down to is what looks like a stable LCO (limit-cycle oscillation). The really neat thing is that I think it should be speed independent. With increasing speed (until the tail takes over completely) the instability of CG-behind-wheel will become stronger. However, so will the centripetal acceleration as a result of the veer, resulting in a harder push-down on the outside skid, and a correspondingly larger restoring moment. I think all these dependencies are linear, resulting in an LCO that doesn't change noticeably in amplitude with speed, but rather increases its frequency. So long as we don't end up with some sort of resonance between the LCO and the structure, this should not cause any real problem. In fact, it might explain why Europa owners think that their monowheel airplanes taxi better than any other airplane they've ever flown...

As to the excessive tail area you mentioned earlier, there's no such thing as too much tail! At least, not within reason. With heavily loaded airplanes like DBF'ers a lot of tail is needed to keep the dynamic modes in check - the single worst flight characteristic I see at DBF competitions is lightly damped modes from too-small tails, particularly a bad dutch roll (or "Bonanza boogie" from too little vertical area. I looked over the shoulders of the guys doing S&C calcs on this plane and while they were conservative, the extra tail area only adds an ounce or two, and the modes look really good. Well-damped dutch roll, critically damped short period (I think they got zeta to something like .715 - .707 is ideal), lightly damped phugoid , and slowly diverging spiral mode. Hehe - I think I might have said this in this thread last year... I'll go back and look later.

And boy, is this thing light. Remember, this baby is going to lift 8.8 lbf of water - the operational empty weight of 9.5 lbf is amazing! Good work, guys! Too bad you didn't quite make that 50% payload fraction you dreamed of, but 60% is still stellar!

Sadly, I'm no longer a member of the team, just an advisor and pilot, but it's still a lot of fun to be associated with these guys!

_____________________________

Landing: Contest of strength between planet and aircraft.
NOTE: To date, planet remains undefeated.

(in reply to Tall Paul)
       Post #: 108

RE: noise reduction - 4/7/2004 12:06:28 AM   
valkyrie1983


 

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From: Urbana, IL, USA
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We were unable to fly today due to high winds. Tomorrows forecast is looking better. I'll keep you all posted.

Geoff

(in reply to Tall Paul)
       Post #: 109

RE: noise reduction - 4/7/2004 8:32:11 PM   
davidfee



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Geoff,
I initially thought you guys had wimped out... so I checked weather.com. They said the winds were as high as 22MPH in the afternoon yesterday... I understand why you chose not to fly. They report 7MPH from the SW currently and decreasing, so it's looking good for that flight report we all want to see...

good luck!
-David

(in reply to valkyrie1983)
       Post #: 110

Flight! - 4/8/2004 2:08:25 AM   
Jeremy Sebens


 

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From: Champaign, IL, USA
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Well, the long-awaited moment came this afternoon. With our normal maiden-flight pilot (Mike Cross - da man) unavailable due to a minor head injury, I took the sticks for the first flight of Fiberglass Overcast. I started with a few high-speed taxi runs, which pulled hard to the left, but were correctable with rudder. Assuming the left hook to be caused by the torque of the monstrous eggbeater of a prop up front, I lined her up again for a takeoff. Still pulling left, the plane broke ground easily in about 35 feet (remember, we're unloaded here) and immediately began rolling left. After a lot of trim work, I finally got it stabilized and started flying. The left pull was primarily due to the left roll tendency pushing down the skid.

Folks, this is a spectacular-flying airplane. It's extremely honest in the air, and tracks like a sport plane - even better than last year's. Imagine your average general aerobat - you know, 4*, Super Sportster, etc. looking like this thing. On the second flight, I was still long on energy, so I wrung her out through some basic aerobatics - much to the surprise of the team. Hey, I've got to know what it's gonna do, right?

Anyway, from slow taxi to takeoff, it's very easily managed on the ground. It is slightly squirrely through a brief speed range, like many taildraggers, but it's handleable, and she quickly punches through.

Full aft stick results in loops from level flight, and when slowed, the stick can be buried with no ill effects - the plane gets into a sustained mush and stays there. Rudder and ailerons remain fully effective.

The plane won't spin - the closest it does is something that looks like snap-rolls without any snapping on a vertical downline, and pro-spin inputs have to be held to sustain it. Neutralizing the controls results in the "spin" stopping - right NOW.

The CG is spot on at neutral now - dives are steady with no pullout tendency.

The only trouble spot with this plane is energy management on approach. The plane is very good at climbing the back side of the power curve and sinking out when you don't expect it to. This resulted in me landing short several times, and plunking it in hard on the runway once. I need more practice with that aspect, but suspect it will work out fine.

Anyway, she flew, and I really, really, like the plane. I'm sure that more pics and movies will be added to the page referenced above in the very near future.

< Message edited by Hi-Amp -- 4/8/2004 2:12:41 AM >


_____________________________

Landing: Contest of strength between planet and aircraft.
NOTE: To date, planet remains undefeated.

(in reply to davidfee)
       Post #: 111

RE: Flight! - 4/8/2004 3:25:55 AM   
valkyrie1983


 

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From: Urbana, IL, USA
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Well, as our pilot described the plane flew great. The maiden flight was a little scary until the trims got set how we needed them. After that it handled great. I was certainly a little freaked out when he did some loops and rolls with it on the 2nd flight. Landings were a little bit hairy as well, but we'll get those figured out. Overall I'm very happy with the way it flew. Now, we've got a bunch of tweaking to do, and we need to get the water system sealed and working properly. Here are a couple pictures:

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 112

RE: Flight! - 4/8/2004 4:06:39 AM   
Jeremy Sebens


 

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Sorry about freakin' you out, Geoff. I wouldn't have wrung her out if I wasn't 100% sure that the plane could handle it.

When do I get to fly 'er again?

(in reply to valkyrie1983)
       Post #: 113

RE: Flight! - 4/8/2004 8:05:55 AM   
davidfee



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Congratulations! I'm sure you guys feel a little more relaxed now.


Thanks for the reports!
-David

(in reply to Jeremy Sebens)
       Post #: 114

RE: Flight! - 4/9/2004 11:31:18 AM