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CA Warning - 1/8/2008 6:15:35 PM   
Don41



Posts: 414
Joined: 9/4/2006
From: El Dorado, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I asked Tower to send me the toxicity report on CA. Since it came as a photo I retyped the first few lines. Many folks on the forums have developed the prolonged colds and or asthma reactions while using CA, many have not, but in the spirit of trying to warn individuals that may be unaware of the potential hazards I thought I'd post this.

This documentation (that I had to ask for) should be posted in the adhesive sites and come with the bottle. At least then you could decide to heed the warning, take extra precautions or shrug it off,,, your choice. The impression I got from reading numerous internet documents posted on the subject is that the lung damage can be permanent however more often than not you will heal. The allergic reaction, however, will almost always be permanent.


SNIP
Hazards Identification

Label Precautionary Statements: Irritant. Irritating to eyes, skin and respiratory system. Danger. Bonds skin and eyes in seconds.

Symptoms of Exposure: Vapor highly irritating to eyes and breathing. Prolonged exposure may lead to non-allergenic asthma
       Post #: 1

RE: CA Warning - 1/8/2008 8:13:04 PM   
sscherin



Posts: 938
Joined: 8/17/2005
From: Castle Rock, CO, USA
Status: offline 		I've switched to mostly using Tightbond II and Epoxy.. I only use CA when I need a quick hold or to tack something while the Tightbond sets.
If you don't swamp the joints with the wood glue it sets quite quickly.

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(in reply to Don41)
       Post #: 2

RE: CA Warning - 1/8/2008 8:46:31 PM   
alex7403


 

Posts: 650
Joined: 6/29/2004
From: New york, NY, USA
Status: offline
i'm using titebond 3 when i can, and CA only when i must use CA.


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99.99% of problems are in the interface.

(in reply to sscherin)
       Post #: 3

RE: CA Warning - 1/8/2008 9:07:30 PM   
ALT


 

Posts: 11
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Maryville, TN, USA
Status: offline 		Here is a link from Robart's web site. It's a PDF of the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for the CA products they distribute.

http://www.robart.com/ZAP%20Glue/PT01.pdf

(in reply to alex7403)
       Post #: 4

RE: CA Warning - 1/9/2008 12:24:30 AM   
Don41



Posts: 414
Joined: 9/4/2006
From: El Dorado, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I have noticed that the far more expensive odorless CA is advertised as useful for those that have developed an allergic reaction to regular CA. Interesting that they will take the time to be concerned for your health when money is involved (:-).

In any case, has anyone personally confirmed that the odorless works (with respect to their allergic reaction)? I'd very much like to have a small amount available for those times that cry out for thin CA.

(in reply to Don41)
       Post #: 5

RE: CA Warning - 1/9/2008 1:34:08 AM   
mmattockx


 

Posts: 2205
Joined: 4/28/2005
From: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Don41

I have noticed that the far more expensive odorless CA is advertised as useful for those that have developed an allergic reaction to regular CA. Interesting that they will take the time to be concerned for your health when money is involved (:-).

In any case, has anyone personally confirmed that the odorless works (with respect to their allergic reaction)? I'd very much like to have a small amount available for those times that cry out for thin CA.


From what I understand, the odorless is still harmful to your health. You just don't have fumes to tell you when there is too much in the air. I would check the MSDS for odorless before I trust it any more than regular CA.

BTW, I also use wood glue when I can to avoid the fumes from both CA and epoxy. Neither one is good for you and the time saved is not really that important compared to long term health effects. Besides, the wood glues let you savor the building experience for longer.

Mark

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Waco Brotherhood #4

(in reply to Don41)
       Post #: 6

RE: CA Warning - 1/9/2008 12:54:58 PM   
Dr1Driver



Posts: 3589
Joined: 7/25/2002
From: Spartanburg, SC, USA
Status: offline 		You need the correct MSDS for the particular brand/type you're using. In my research, CA is relatively safe if proper precautions are taken. Obviously, if someone has an allergic reaaction to the stuff, simply stop using it.

Dr.1

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(in reply to mmattockx)
       Post #: 7

RE: CA Warning - 1/9/2008 1:19:15 PM   
Mr Cox



Posts: 387
Joined: 7/20/2007
From: Gothenburg, SWEDEN
Status: offline 		Epoxy is not nice either, it depends a bit on the type I guess but if you read the health instructions you wouldn't want to use that stuff either. Skin contact should be avoided (it goes through gloves) and inhaling dust from sanding should be avoided also. Allergies will develop and then one becomes hyper sensitive to the stuff...

Traditional wood glue and slow build progress is all part of the hobby (gives you time to think about the design too), why does everything have to be fast these days?

(in reply to sscherin)
       Post #: 8

RE: CA Warning - 1/9/2008 2:24:43 PM   
DocYates



Posts: 2635
Joined: 1/2/2002
From: Killen, AL, USA
Status: offline 		The most effective way to use this stuff is to put a small fan on your workbeanch that will keep the fumes from building up over the work area and keep you from getting a snout full of the fumes. Any of this stuff is bad for you in large amounts, heck 6 cheeseburgers a day will kill you if you eat them long enough. Obviously, as stated, if you develop an allergy to these products you need to find something else, either an aliphatic resin or maybe a polyurethane glue such as Gorilla glue. I don't thin they can make these glues much "safer" than they already are, the chemicals used in them are pretty strong and reactive, thus the properties that make them an effective adhesive. You just have to limit yourself to the effects of long term exposure.
Tommy

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(in reply to Mr Cox)
       Post #: 9

RE: CA Warning - 1/9/2008 2:42:09 PM   
Don41



Posts: 414
Joined: 9/4/2006
From: El Dorado, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Cox


Traditional wood glue and slow build progress is all part of the hobby (gives you time to think about the design too), why does everything have to be fast these days?


Well in spite of the problems I now have with CA there are times it would be great to be able to use the thin stuff. Your fingers have a dexterity that can't be matched when handling some small or hard to reach parts.

I do agree though that it's really no problem building without benefit of thin CA as long as you plan ahead.

I am sure I created my sensitivity to the CA because I was careless in its use. However if the education had been there, either by the LHS or at the internet sites I might well of had the common sense to be more cautious. This is why I feel the adhesive should have a description of the possible (probable) problems that can develop unless you take extra precautions. A lot more caution on my part would most likely have headed off the allergy.

On the other hand, since I've never been allergic to anything that I know of, including poison oak, I may have been every bit as careless thinking "yes, yes, but it won't happen to me" (:-)

(in reply to Mr Cox)
       Post #: 10

RE: CA Warning - 1/9/2008 2:55:05 PM   
sscherin



Posts: 938
Joined: 8/17/2005
From: Castle Rock, CO, USA
Status: offline 		Anyone think that a Delta or Jet Air Filter system would help?
http://www.amazon.com/Delta-AP100-ShopMaster-Filtration-120-Volt/dp/B0000EI96M

I know the wood workers like em.

I don't have any issues with CA fumes.. I'd like it to stay that way.

Running my 3hp Dust collector would be a bit overkill for fumes but I was thinking of making a down draft sanding table that I could hook up to it.
It would eliminate fumes and dust but may also suck up small parts..

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There is no mechanical problem so difficult that it cannot be solved by brute strength and ignorance

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       Post #: 11

RE: CA Warning - 1/9/2008 3:08:47 PM   
Don41



Posts: 414
Joined: 9/4/2006
From: El Dorado, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sscherin

Anyone think that a Delta or Jet Air Filter system would help?
http://www.amazon.com/Delta-AP100-ShopMaster-Filtration-120-Volt/dp/B0000EI96M

I know the wood workers like em.

I don't have any issues with CA fumes.. I'd like it to stay that way.

Running my 3hp Dust collector would be a bit overkill for fumes but I was thinking of making a down draft sanding table that I could hook up to it.
It would eliminate fumes and dust but may also suck up small parts..


I have doubts this is the system you need for CA but I haven't seen it up close and personal.

Basically I suspect that all you truly need is to use the precautionary methods mentioned by others,,, a good strong fan drawing air away from the work area and out a window. Of course this time of year can make that a problem since the fresh air you'll be drawing into your shop will be ice cold.

[Also, don't forget that the chemicals can also get into your system thru the skin.] I used the debonder many times yet I have never checked on its toxicity. Has anyone else?

(in reply to sscherin)
       Post #: 12

RE: CA Warning - 1/9/2008 3:47:55 PM   
alex7403


 

Posts: 650
Joined: 6/29/2004
From: New york, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Don,
I raised this panic in the past about the CA.
One of my conclusions was that: im more sensitive to slower curing CA’s.
The slower it cures the more sensitive I’m.
Not to use it at all you cant in case of CA hinges, but you can avoid it and use aliphatic glues, they are as strong as CA, we run experiments at the end.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6595250/anchors_6595250/mpage_1/key_glue%252Cspoil%252Chobby/anchor/tm.htm#6595250

allergy to CA is not gonna make the hobby easier.


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99.99% of problems are in the interface.

(in reply to Don41)
       Post #: 13

RE: CA Warning - 1/9/2008 4:03:54 PM   
Dr1Driver



Posts: 3589
Joined: 7/25/2002
From: Spartanburg, SC, USA
Status: offline 		allergy to CA is not gonna make the hobby easier.

And neither is misinformation about the dengers of it, either. Everyone should be CORRECTLY informed.

Dr.1

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There's a Hun in the sun!

(in reply to alex7403)
       Post #: 14

RE: CA Warning - 1/9/2008 4:45:04 PM