Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in

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Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 1/14/2008 1:49 PM

Force4x4

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This is by far the hardest engine I have ever owned to break in and tune. It will not stay running and when I fianlly get the needles set s oit will stay running it takes off at insane rpm's, so I set the high speed needle 4~5 turns out as the manufacturer suggests and once again it will not stay running. It is driving me insane. I am on the first tank of the break in and I am doing heat cycles but I can't keep it running long enough to get a good cycle. I preheated the engine with a heat gun to 200F and initially it turned over right away but then the problems started. I have checked and re-checked for air leaks but there are none, I have sealed everything. If anyone has this motor and has any suggestions I would greatly appreciate them. I have never had this problem with any of my O.S.'s.

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 1/14/2008 3:43 PM

Osirisf16

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Why do 4-5 turns counter-clockwise??? The engines are already too rich

What model of OS you got? And you saying that while you are driving it while do cycles, it stall? You have some throttle right? If you not press some throttle, the engine surely is going to turn off, so you must have a little throttle for remaining alive. Check the low speed, but i'm not sure. What EXACTLY does the manual says? Please, either write it, either post a picture or either give us a link. First time hearing it. You must be too much rich. How's the engine sounds? Like it wants to run or it want to die?

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 1/14/2008 6:19 PM

Force4x4

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I started out at 2 turns but it was acting like that all ready so I went to 4 turns as the manual states. The rest of the manual is in Italian, that is the only part in English. It sounds very rough. I have the O.S. V-spec, and an O.S. .18CV-RX right now but I have tuned many O.S.'s through the years and I have never had any trouble with them. The break-in for the V-spec was a breeze, I had no trouble at all with it, it idled perfect and ran smooth the whole time.

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 1/14/2008 9:22 PM

Osirisf16

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Ok, italian i see. THEN, just screw the High speed needle untill it completely closed. Then, unscrew that screw 3 turns. Check the other needles as well (don't touch them if you didn't do anything with them). Then, try again and tell us. I don't know why the engine acts so strange.

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 1/15/2008 9:54 PM

Force4x4

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I will try your suggestion, my break-in is on hold right now due to lack of time. I will let you know how it goes.

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 1/21/2008 9:41 PM

razzor

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Info for running in a Axe motor.

INSTRUCTIONS
A gas-powered engine require some basic knowledge and understanding, as well as important safety considerations.
SAFETY FIRST
A gas-powered engine require a great deal of caution when working on them, and during their operation. Follow these safety precautions:
1. Fuel is highly toxic. Avoid skin and eye contact, and do not swallow it.
2. Fuel is highly flammable. Avoid exposing fuel to open flame or sparks.
3. Exhaust fumes are hazardous. Avoid inhalation, skin or eye contact.
4. The engine cooling head and exhaust pipe may reach temperatures over 100°C. Always wear gloves when working on a hot engine.
5. Avoid contact with the flywheel or the clutch while the engine is running.
INSTALLATION
Before mounting the engine into the chassis, check that the bottom surfaces of the engine mounts blocks are flat. This is important to avoid any distortion of the crankcase, and to optimize heat dissipation through the chassis.
Important - To flatten the bottom part of the mounted engine mounts, attach the engine mounts to the engine, then rub the bottom of the mounts on a piece of sandpaper until there is full surface contact.
Mount the engine on the chassis and align the clutch pinions with the gears. Adjust the gear mesh.
RUNNING IN
A gas-powered engine requires careful running-in to allow the internal parts to achieve proper operating clearances. This is especially true of the piston and liner, crankshaft and conrod.
Running-in the engine while running the car takes more time and requires more self-control. However, it allows the driveline components of the car to operate together for the first time under controlled conditions.
Run the car up to half-speed using moderate acceleration. Do this for 4-5 tanks of fuel.
On the next 3 tanks of fuel, slowly increase the speed and acceleration, and start leaning the main needle setting to achieve a good top-speed setting. Lean the main needle setting by turning the needle clockwise.
Important - When you adjust the carburetor settings, make adjustments in very small increments, since the engine is very responsive to small changes in mixture settings.
Your engine should be completely run-in after approximately 8 tanks of fuel (1 hour).
CARBURETOR ADJUSTMENT

The carburetor on this engine is preset at the factory, meaning that the original settings are close to where they should be for normal operation.
The carburetor has 3 adjustments:
1 - Main needle: controls the amount of fuel at all RPM
2 - Low speed needles (front and rear): control the amount of fuel at idle and low RPM
3 - Idle adjustment screw: controls the idle RPM with the carburetor closed
The most difficult thing to adjust is the low speed adjustment. Keep the following principles in mind when doing this:
- Use the idle adjustment screw to adjust the idle RPM immediately after closing the carburetor
- Use the low speed needle to adjust the fuel mixture 2-5 seconds after closing the carburetor
- Use the front low speed needle (at the front end of the carburetor slide) for basic adjustment
- Use the rear low speed needle (at the rear of the carburetor body) for fine adjustment

Adjust needle settings before putting the car on the track
Once the engine is running and has come up to operating temperature (within 15-20 seconds) proceed as follows:
Take the car off the ground, and open the throttle fully.

Main needle
SETTING:
Close completely the main needle and open it 2,5 turns.
Low speed needle front
SETTING:
Close completely the low speed needle front and open it 4 turns.
Low speed needle rear
SETTING:
Close completely the low speed needle rear and open it 1 turn.
Idle speed
Take the car off the ground, and open the throttle fully for 2-3 seconds. Close the carburetor and check the idle speed that occurs immediately after.
- If the engine stops almost immediately, turn the idle adjustment screw clockwise to increase the idle RPM.
- If the idle RPM is too high, turn the idle adjustment screw counter-clockwise to reduce the idle RPM.

Important - Because adjusting the low speed needle affects the idle RPM, use the idle adjustment screw to get the engine to idle at the right RPM. Once you are satisfied that you have achieved reliable carburetor settings, you are ready to put you car on the track.
The carburetor settings may change with changes in weather conditions, fuel, glowplug or exhaust system. Re-adjust the main needle again on the track.
MAINTENANCE
This engine requires very little maintenance as long as the engine does not overheat and proper fuel and airfilter are used. To avoid internal corrosion, after each day of use add some fuel into the engine, or add a high grade "after run" oil.
After every 10-15 hours of use, it is advised that you ask an experienced gas racer to check the overall condition of your engine. It is also advised that you replace the engine conrod every (more or less) 15 hours of running to avoid fatigue. Failure to do so may cause severe and irreparable damage to your engine. This job is best done by an expert or with expert guidance.
Special attention should be paid to the air filter. Make sure that it is always in place, well secured, well cleaned and oiled, and in good condition.
Important - Use a piece of paper between the pinion and the gear, tighten the engine mounting screws and remove the paper. This should give you approximately 0.1mm of play in the gear mesh.
After connecting the fuel and pressure lines and hooking up the throttle linkage to the carburetor, check that the carburetor opens and closes smoothly without binding. If there is any restriction of movement, adjust the throttle linkage or the position of the carburetor on the engine.

Note though that Axe motor take a bit more than 8 tanks to completely run in and usually have metal pinch for up to 4/5 liters.
Hope this helps

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 1/25/2008 1:14 AM

sport10

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I needed to lean my Mamba's high speed needle quite abit to get it to stay running at first. It was set way too rich from the factory for breakin. I really liked my mamba till it ate a wrist pin clip around the 3 gallon mark. It is setting around waiting for a new piston, sleeve, and rod right now. I have since switched to a OS V-Spec and really like it. Better parts fit and more power all around than the mamba. My sleeve on my mamba was in so tight that it was almost impossible to remove. Axe needs to get there tolerances better to where the sleeve is a slip fit into the crankcase and not cold welded in like mine. All I can say is good luck and make sure to replace the rod after breakin.

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 1/25/2008 1:37 AM

FoamyVictim

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quote:

All I can say is good luck and make sure to replace the rod after breakin.

Should've bought another O.S.

I have the Cobra version, and while it's now broken in and running pretty well; it just doesn't make the same power as the V-spec, and it's harder to keep tuned. What plug are you using in that Mamba? The 3 Axe motors I have all REQUIRE the use of very cold plugs, otherwise, they run like crap. Try a cold plug, and see if you get better results. That, and the Axe motors seem to take FOREVER to break in... like a good RB.

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 1/25/2008 2:41 AM

sport10

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I had the Mamba running great until it ate the wrist pin. It would idle forever too. I was not unhappy with it until it ate the wrist pin. I was using Rossi #6 plugs, JP3 pipe, and 30% fuel when I was running it. It had good performance but lacked alittle on the top. Now the V-Spec is off the hook on power and runtime

.

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 1/25/2008 7:02 AM

ezveedub

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All I can say is, if you try to tune this engine like an O.S. you will have issues. O.S. and Italian engines tune very differnet and use different heat range plugs. O.S. like hot plugs, Rossi's like medium to cold plugs, so get those items straightened out. As for idling, all my Axe Rossis idle all day long. It could be overheating and it will idle fine. It does take some time to break in, as the Axe Rossis are tough. If you had a early version Mamba, it may have the metal single shielded front bearing and the early con rod. The front bearing was prone to leaks and that will kill the idle, so check it. The newer front bearing is double rubber sealed and the newer conrod should have 3 notches cut into it on the side facing the crank. My friend ran his Mamba race hard for 8+ gallons and it still ran fine, just wouldn't hold idle too great. The bearings had no play and the crank pin was fine. Its been gutted since and converted to a Cobra. My other Mamba runs hard on the bottom and needs a good pipe to open the top end up some. Suggest 9853, 9886, 053 or 086 pipes for these engines, The Axr Rossi 2050 is a 3 chamber EFRA pipe and does restrict it more than the pipes mentioned.

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 1/25/2008 8:01 AM

sport10

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I was using the correct plug for the engine. The Rossi #6 is what comes with the engine and what the importer SG models recommended for it. I hope the wrist pin failure I experienced was a fluke because I am planning on rebuilding it to evo specs.

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 2/12/2008 10:16 PM

rologti

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I've just bought a mamba (yesterday), i didn't know that the break in was so hard and so long.....maybe i should spend a bit more money (in the engine and in plugs) and buy the ninja.21...

I'm thinking in starting the break in atached to a table, so it could start easily than in the buggy (i don't have a starter box, just a hand starter), and then put the engine in the buggy...this could be easy or harder that start doing it in the buggy???

I've had read something about bearings...what should i check when the engine arrives????

Also i've heared that i should seal the carburator before starting...were should i seal, with what should i seal?? (locite gasket silicone??..the grey one??, that's the one i use to seal the real car engines when i assebly them back)...any pictures???

I use 30% nitro on my engines....should i keed using this fuel and the plug that cames with the engine???...should i put a shimm???

quote:

ORIGINAL: sport10

I needed to lean my Mamba's high speed needle quite abit to get it to stay running at first. It was set way too rich from the factory for breakin. I really liked my mamba till it ate a wrist pin clip around the 3 gallon mark. It is setting around waiting for a new piston, sleeve, and rod right now. I have since switched to a OS V-Spec and really like it. Better parts fit and more power all around than the mamba. My sleeve on my mamba was in so tight that it was almost impossible to remove. Axe needs to get there tolerances better to where the sleeve is a slip fit into the crankcase and not cold welded in like mine. All I can say is good luck and make sure to replace the rod after breakin.

You mean that after about an hour or so i should change the con rod???

Thank's

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 2/13/2008 2:22 AM

RcRacer37E

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The mamba rcoks, mine was a hot mod and my brothers running it now. When I done the break in, I turned the high needle in 1 full turn and then fired it up. Heat the head as well. Once its running then turn the high needle back out till it just about dies. Then run your break in as you would normaly do.
The mamba my bro is running has atleast 5 gallons werks 30% and one new set of bearings. Just rebuilt the carb and were set for the 08 season.

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 2/13/2008 5:34 AM

rologti

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nascardad24

The mamba rcoks, mine was a hot mod and my brothers running it now. When I done the break in, I turned the high needle in 1 full turn and then fired it up. Heat the head as well. Once its running then turn the high needle back out till it just about dies. Then run your break in as you would normaly do.
The mamba my bro is running has atleast 5 gallons werks 30% and one new set of bearings. Just rebuilt the carb and were set for the 08 season.

Thank's...i'll have to learn about these engines...i had never change anything else than a plug...even take the carb out...i know they use bearings (they should), but because i have seen them in pictures....as you can see, i only use and abuse them (and i have use them for about 7 years, but never a top of the range (or near), so if they broke, i buy another cheap engine...yesterday was diferent, i bought a 150+ engine...
Do you know were i can find something like nitro engines 101??? To start learning how to do this stuff by myself...
Thank's again!!!!

< Message edited by rologti -- 2/13/2008 5:35 AM >

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 2/14/2008 5:53 AM

silverz98

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i love rossi motors when i was racing 1/8th scals heavy 5 years ago i was useing a black magic. loved it put all most 10 gallons threw it no problems with it. most tracks i raced on was tight curvey tracks i didnt car about lack of top end. cause it pulled hard out turns and got ot the top end fast. but i did a little port work on the sleve and it woke the top end up alot whould hang with the rbs and o/s all day on topend after that. i got out of raceing for 5 years getting back in to it now, and bought a new rod pistion and sleave and all new bearings rebuilt it and plan on breaking it back in sometime. witch sucks lol. cause every one right they take for ever to break in

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 2/27/2008 2:27 PM

rologti

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Hi,
I send a mail to AXE ROSSI asking how the break in should be done...and they anwer me the following (it's true, the break in is really long!!!)

ENGINE BREAKING IN INSTRUCTIONS

AXE Rossi high performance engines must be correctly broken-in for maximum performance and life! Rushing this process can result in premature engine failure.

The carburetor of our AXE Engines is set at the factory at a rich setting for an easy start of the engine. The factory initial setting is the following: Main needle 3.5 turn open from closed position – Idle needle 2.5 turn open from closet position.

For a good break-in run the engine while the car is sitting off the ground at that rich setting for 3-4 tanks and then for the next 3-6 liters (1-1,5 gallons) run it on the ground at a low speed and gradually speed it up while you progress through each tank and leaning the high speed needle 1/8th of a turn at a time until it runs close to peak performance. Please don't take short cuts and run less tanks.

Make sure the engine stays within a reasonable temperature range 110-120°C (230-248°F) and make sure you see a good amount of blue smoke coming out of the exhaust throughout the throttle range to insure you are not running the engine overly lean. Do not run the engine too lean or you will over heat it and cause permanent damage to the internal components of the engine.

Remember always run the engine with a clean air filter.

FUEL
The fuel is very important for the run of the engine.
The correct fuel needs to contain:
NITRO 20-30%
Synthetic Oil 6-8%
Castor Oil 2-3%

Axe Rossi recommends the following Fuel brands:
AXE by ROGA
ROGA
BYRON
O’DONNELL

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 9/2/2008 11:57 PM

golfita

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Hi, have exactly same problem... Now did yo solve it IF you did solved it... Thank you in advance!

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 9/4/2008 4:14 AM

ezveedub

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I can tell you this, my Mamba has about 1 1/4 gallons through it and it will run, but at about 260-275F, with a tight pinch. Thats with plenty of smoke out of the exhaust. The idle is fairly the same as a Novarossi. Needs to be blipped ever so often when running medium or cold plugs. As for the break-in, they take a good 2 gallons and at that, I recommend a new rod and clips at that mark. I would even drop a ceramic rear bearing while I'm in there. It should be good from that point on and the temps should come down to normal range. I would probably go with a break-in stand to ease the break-in process, as the Axe motors are very tight new.

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 9/4/2008 10:27 AM

jonnymac

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I didn't have a single problem with mine.
Sure its tight, but a good starter box and heating the head meant no problems for me.
Its a great engine

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 9/4/2008 10:59 AM

golfita

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ezveedub

I can tell you this, my Mamba has about 1 1/4 gallons through it and it will run, but at about 260-275F, with a tight pinch. Thats with plenty of smoke out of the exhaust. The idle is fairly the same as a Novarossi. Needs to be blipped ever so often when running medium or cold plugs. As for the break-in, they take a good 2 gallons and at that, I recommend a new rod and clips at that mark. I would even drop a ceramic rear bearing while I'm in there. It should be good from that point on and the temps should come down to normal range. I would probably go with a break-in stand to ease the break-in process, as the Axe motors are very tight new.

Hi, so you say that I can go with my break-in until the 2 gallon mark? Because it goes very high in temperatures and not staying very much at idle point. So I would go further with the break-in until the 2 gallon mark... I will change the conrod and clips... and i will see next.

But... if I change the rod that doesn't ask for a new break in???

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 9/4/2008 4:18 PM

ezveedub

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If you put a new rod, you run one tank on the starter box. Idle it with a few revs to worked it in, thats all. The rod takes a beating due to the tight pinch.

My next engine is try is the Mamba X1 EVO. Its priced pretty good too.

< Message edited by ezveedub -- 9/4/2008 4:20 PM >

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 9/4/2008 10:06 PM

golfita

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ezveedub

If you put a new rod, you run one tank on the starter box. Idle it with a few revs to worked it in, thats all. The rod takes a beating due to the tight pinch.

My next engine is try is the Mamba X1 EVO. Its priced pretty good too.

That's the engine I have now! Mamba X1 Evolution! And is making me mad

because I want to run my Mugen MBX5T Prospec and I can't because of the engine's TOO LONG break-in!

I hope I will finish my break-in and put it on the track.

P.S. I already oredered my conrod and wrist pins

together with a sleeve for any problems that might appear

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 9/7/2008 3:19 PM

zaintlouis

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i modded my mamba just like my modded cobra. (copied the scoop and liner) man now it runs just like it. but i will have to disassemble the mamba again coz i forgot to polish the scoop lol. soon when you get oriented with the right setting you'll be proud of it you'll see. (maintenance time range is shorter for modded ones)
Most gurus do not believe using break stands when breaking in an engine for so many valid reasons.( but i do coz i'm no guru lol), but don"t use it if you're in a heat cycle method i mean don't rev it.

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RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 9/7/2008 3:54 PM

golfita

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Joined: 9/2/2008
Last Login: 11/27/2008
From: Constanta, ROMANIA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zaintlouis

i modded my mamba just like my modded cobra. (copied the scoop and liner) man now it runs just like it. but i will have to disassemble the mamba again coz i forgot to polish the scoop lol. soon when you get oriented with the right setting you'll be proud of it you'll see. (maintenance time range is shorter for modded ones)
Most gurus do not believe using break stands when breaking in an engine for so many valid reasons.( but i do coz i'm no guru lol), but don"t use it if you're in a heat cycle method i mean don't rev it.

You will be laughing I think... but what does mean that you modded your engine?

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(in reply to zaintlouis)

Post #: 24

RE: Axe Rossi Mamba .21 Break-in - 9/7/2008 6:01 PM

zaintlouis

Posts: 589
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Joined: 12/9/2005
Last Login: 3/6/2013
From: Dipolog Zamboanga del Dorte, PHILIPPINES
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nah.. you make the crankshaft scoops much bigger plus porting of the sleeves. compare the two crankshafts - (the other one isn't my mamba crankshaft though but a P-5) , on the left is a modded (or modified) cobra crankshaft. very big difference isn't it. the modded one is polished for smoother fuel/air mixture airflow (avoids turbulence in other words so the mixture goes straight to the inlet port of the engine sleeve without any hassle - for me this is one factor that avoids flameouts too)

IN the engine thread there are so many thread well explained by the gurus on how to mod an engine. it was few years ago when i found one so i lost track of that thread. but i got some useful info too in my r/c data bank if you want.

Now with regards to breaking in the mamba i did the same as i break in my v spec, they are right you need a special kind of starter box for this kind of engines. my starter box is kinda > light < duty. breakin it in scratches my head really. the pinch is too tight. i think the starter box that i bought is just for 110 scale r/c's. i do not want to buy another starter box coz i have other more important things to buy so what i did i completely remove the glow plug, pour engine oil inside the cylinder, cover the cylinder head with clean cloth ( to suppress oil from coming out to cylinder), detach the fuel line, and heat it with a hot air soldering iron ( Hot Air Soldering Iron is a soldering Iron that melts soldering lead with hot air only - i know what you're thinking you can control the temperature of hot air that goes through it not to the point that you'll melt the head lol) & let it run in the starter box for several minutes. i call this pre break in BEFORE the real break in (or one that runs with fuel already) in this process you're loosening the tapered TDC a bit. when you think the TDc has already loosen a bit the engine would be now startable using the starterbox with fuel attach and with the glow plug in place, this is to ease up starting your engine.

After this Do what RELOGTI says. it's what i did to mine. but when you do this and break it in the stand use an electric fan while engine is running off ground.

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