RE: Is the cost of the PPP membership fair to other AMA members?

RE: Is the cost of the PPP membership fair to other AMA members?
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[Poll]

Is the cost of the PPP membership fair to other AMA members?

Yes, a 2lb plane traveling 60mph cant hurt anyone

34% (29)

No, they are getting a better tiered rate than FF

5% (5)

No, they are getting a better tiered rate than gliders

1% (1)

No, they are getting a better tiered rate than 1/2a

4% (4)

No, $58 bucks and $30 for family members for the right to vote!!!!

53% (45)

Total Votes : 84

(last vote on : 4/11/2008 12:15:29 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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RE: Is the cost of the PPP membership fair to other A... - 3/21/2008 4:38:13 AM

KidEpoxy

Posts: 3223
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: online

STL,
you seem to have chosen to forget what Joyce sent you & you posted here,
I'll referesh your memory as to what you posted Joyce sent:
STL post#7 'Just The Facts' thread Jan29,08, cites Joyce as

quote:

This proposed program would have less insurance coverage, be limited to non-sanctioned events, and include a bimonthly magazine focusing on electric-powered aircraft. Additionally, we view this new membership group as establishing electric-power flying fields in urban areas and not being part of existing clubs. We have priced this program at $29.95 per year.

Exactly how do you see Joyce telling you "not being part of existing clubs" as Muncie not causing the segregation & division by design & intent.

Oh look, you did see it as seperate by design,
STL post#63 Points Worth Consideration thread

quote:

Again and I still don't understand why you guys can't understand this. The AMA did proposed NOT to integrate the e-ticket within AMA current fields.

Please tell me which way you are facing on this at the moment, since you post Muncie is both seperating e-ticket and yet not divisive. You dont understand why we dont get it, but you are the one we cant understand why you cant pick if Muncie is seperating PPP or not.

quote:

Funny but I haven't seen 1 single PPP come into this forum and complain about anything you've mentioned. Shouldn't they be the ones that are upset???

You cant count, that's why.
KidEpoxy, the PPP member since Jan9 2008, has been very vocal about the shortcomings of the program,
so it seems you counter peters out somewhere before 1 if you claim not to see any PPP's pointing out the flaws.
I am the they you refer to, please dont tell me how I feel.

Also, no matter how you try to spin it, Muncie dont mail ballots to the PPP.
I'll test your theory about 'their choice' if I declare
"I, KidEpoxy the PPP guy, choose to be just PPP AND Vote, so mail me a ballot."
Wow, look.. Muncie will mail no ballot cause I'm just PPP and not Open, despite me choosing to vote while PPP. Muncie said no vote for PPP, not me the PPP guy. But you knew that from when you posted citing Joyce telling you that.

Please stop flooding falacies that drag threads off topic.

-------------------

bdavison-
"Me personally, Id love a AMA ala carte system, where you could pick and choose the options you want. So you could tailor your membership to your perticular flying."

Now that there is a fine bit of thinking. Logical & fair, no ripoffs & no subsidies.

"If thats the case, just get a parkflyer membership, dont vote, dont fly big planes, and dont compete...then you too can get a membership for $29 bucks"

What about guys that want to fly 1.3lb planes at 40mph without competing or voting?
Oh, my if my PF is a Schoolyard Scale plane with a 049cox somehow I have to stop flying it as a member in the park cause I dropped to PPP. I dont have to drop to small & slow planes, 1/2A is already small & most go slow yet gets no $29 PPP love.

As a PPP guy, I fly a 1lb cox049 as an outlaw for a few flights, then I can put up a 1lb FFF with gws300 as a member of AMA* without missing a breath at the same park. They divided it, not me.

*PPP

< Message edited by KidEpoxy -- 3/21/2008 4:40:00 AM >

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to STLPilot)

Post #: 51

RE: Is the cost of the PPP membership fair to other A... - 3/21/2008 6:21:11 AM

littlecrankshaf

Posts: 2104
Joined: 12/9/2001
From: here
Status: offline

Kid,

You deserve a standing ovation. The other side...oh here goes more divisive terminology

... will never admit...oh well...good job!

_____________________________

Wow! Another epiphany…that is why the suckups suckup. Super sucking protection power. Yea baby.

(in reply to KidEpoxy)

Post #: 52

RE: Is the cost of the PPP membership fair to other ... - 3/21/2008 10:51:03 AM

STLPilot

Posts: 9091
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline

quote:

you seem to have chosen to forget what Joyce sent you & you posted here,

And you must not have realized, but that proposal changed and now the clubs can make that choice. You're talking about yesterdays news and proposals. But yes, I was in favor of either proposal, just as long as the PPP was to be put into play, which it was. I knew that the PPP was going to evolve as well. If you haven't noticed they have changed a few guidelines and wording since Jan 8th and I expect more to come. Step into the now man.

Your a PPP member? What to fly your jets and >2.1 aircraft under it? You know the catch 22 in thinking that the AMA will overlook flying you >2.1 lb airplane under the PPP and not effecting club insurance is the fact you won't find a club to let you do it, unless you feel obliged to break their house rules. Yeah it looks like you stumbled upon this great big loophople, but when we shut off our monitor screens we are no longer living in a fantasy land.

< Message edited by STLPilot -- 3/21/2008 1:36:37 PM >

_____________________________

Here At The Wall

(in reply to littlecrankshaf)

Post #: 53

RE: Is the cost of the PPP membership fair to other A... - 3/21/2008 10:54:22 AM

Stickbuilder

Posts: 5192
Joined: 11/20/2005
From: leesburg, FL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

What about guys that want to fly 1.3lb planes at 40mph without competing or voting?
Oh, my if my PF is a Schoolyard Scale plane with a 049cox somehow I have to stop flying it as a member in the park cause I dropped to PPP. I dont have to drop to small & slow planes, 1/2A is already small & most go slow yet gets no $29 PPP love.

As a PPP guy, I fly a 1lb cox049 as an outlaw for a few flights, then I can put up a 1lb FFF with gws300 as a member of AMA without missing a breath at the same park. They divided it, not me.

Kid,

One point needs to be made here in regard to your complaint about not being able to fly your 1/2 A models as a PPP member, and it also applies to your statement about not being able to vote. YOU KNEW WHAT THE LIMITS WERE WHEN YOU CHOSE THAT LEVEL OF MEMBERSHIP.

Bill, AMA 4720

_____________________________

It's easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesn't look like an airplane.

(in reply to KidEpoxy)

Post #: 54

RE: Is the cost of the PPP membership fair to other ... - 3/21/2008 10:58:00 AM

STLPilot

Posts: 9091
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline

quote:

You guys have inadvertantly stumbled on the root cause for the complaints. It is because full fare members cannot " cafeteria " their benefits and exchange fewer benefits for a reduced priced. I don't neccessarily disagree with that logic, but am not sure that some of the proposals are do-able either.

Huh? Full fare members can exchange their benefits for the PPP program. Also it's not like the PPP is "ala carte", you have a fixed price with fixed benefits. And if you want more on your plate you have to pay more, whereas $58 can take a reduction in fees for reduction of services.

_____________________________

Here At The Wall

(in reply to littlecrankshaf)

Post #: 55

RE: Is the cost of the PPP membership fair to other A... - 3/21/2008 12:00:24 PM

P-51B

Posts: 6173
Joined: 10/11/2002
From: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Kid,

One point needs to be made here in regard to your complaint about not being able to fly your 1/2 A models as a PPP member, and it also applies to your statement about not being able to vote. YOU KNEW WHAT THE LIMITS WERE WHEN YOU CHOSE THAT LEVEL OF MEMBERSHIP.

Bill, AMA 4720

Stick,

You seem to be missing the point that THERE SHOULDN'T BE LIMITS IMPOSED THAT ONE HAS TO CHOOSE BETWEEN, INCLUDING BASED ON POWER SOURCE.

If people want to start carrying the tiered limits banner, lets make it consistent. ONLY full open members that did not recieve a Junior or Senior discount are able to vote. After all, they paid a lower rate just like the "ugly stepchildren" the PPP flyers are being treated as. Or, let's carry it all the way to the logical end. Become an insurance company instead of a MODEL AVIATION CLUB and put in tiered rates for every stinking class. The Jet guys, who are obviously more dangerous than those using LiPO batteries, get to pay the highest rate. Oh, and since they are the only ones paying the higher rate, they are the only ones that get to vote. After all, those who aren't paying the higher rate aren't really model aviation enthusiasts right?

Gee, using big letters and colorizing sure was fun.

p.s. I have yet to hear of a jet flyer burning down his house or destroying his car because his jet fuel was damaged and spontaneously caught fire.

_____________________________

In order to think "outside the box", one must first accept there IS a box.

(in reply to Stickbuilder)

Post #: 56

RE: Is the cost of the PPP membership fair to other ... - 3/21/2008 3:08:15 PM

JUGFLIER

Posts: 945
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Muscle Shoals, AL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot

quote:

You guys have inadvertantly stumbled on the root cause for the complaints. It is because full fare members cannot " cafeteria " their benefits and exchange fewer benefits for a reduced priced. I don't neccessarily disagree with that logic, but am not sure that some of the proposals are do-able either.
Huh? Full fare members can exchange their benefits for the PPP program. Also it's not like the PPP is "ala carte", you have a fixed price with fixed benefits. And if you want more on your plate you have to pay more, whereas $58 can take a reduction in fees for reduction of services.

STL,
Take a deep breath. its about the magazine. Need i say more?

(in reply to STLPilot)

Post #: 57

RE: Is the cost of the PPP membership fair to other ... - 3/21/2008 3:19:39 PM

STLPilot

Posts: 9091
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline

quote:

STL,
Take a deep breath. its about the magazine. Need i say more?

Actually yeah ... what do you mean?

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Here At The Wall

(in reply to JUGFLIER)

Post #: 58

RE: Is the cost of the PPP membership fair to other ... - 3/21/2008 3:51:04 PM

bdavison

Posts: 3333
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Warner Robins, GA, USA
Status: offline

Im still confused....

If you wanted to vote so bad, and wanted to fly planes outside of the scope of the Parkflyer program....why did you choose the Parkflyer program???

Cant blame your poor choice on the AMA. That was your decision.

Thats like ordering a cheeseburger at a resturant and then whining because they didnt serve you a sirloin.

_____________________________

teamflyingcircus.com

(in reply to STLPilot)

Post #: 59

RE: Is the cost of the PPP membership fair to other ... - 3/21/2008 3:58:41 PM

JUGFLIER

Posts: 945
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Muscle Shoals, AL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot

quote:

STL,
Take a deep breath. its about the magazine. Need i say more?
Actually yeah ... what do you mean?

Sorry man, youknow what i mean. I'm not falling for it.

(in reply to STLPilot)

Post #: 60

RE: Is the cost of the PPP membership fair to other ... - 3/21/2008 4:09:20 PM

STLPilot

Posts: 9091
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline

I think, but really am not sure, you are talking about the PPP's being able to "choose" between the 2 magazines???? So if this is a misconception, I understand where some may "think" the system is ala carte, but it's not. PPP's still MUST take a magazine, no choice. And if they decide to drop the Park Pilot mag for MA, the AMA has conveniently outpriced the product to where it only makes sense to join as full member in lieu of upgrading. Smart on their behalf, seen that type of marketing before. But like I said, PPP's can ONLY upgrade and pay more for services, whereas $58 members get teh choice of being able to drop down to a lower tier. Where is the lower tier for the PPP.

Actually I think biggest misconception is that PPP's are getting a price break. But hopefully in time most will understand that PPP's are getting much more than half the benefits.

Was I in the right direction in the 1st paragraph?

I wonder how many years this is going to go on? Day after day ... year after year ... people thinking they are actually forced to do anything.

_____________________________

Here At The Wall

(in reply to JUGFLIER)

Post #: 61

RE: Is the cost of the PPP membership fair to other ... - 3/21/2008 4:41:55 PM

littlecrankshaf

Posts: 2104
Joined: 12/9/2001
From: here
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bdavison

Im still confused....

If you wanted to vote so bad, and wanted to fly planes outside of the scope of the Parkflyer program....why did you choose the Parkflyer program???

Cant blame your poor choice on the AMA. That was your decision.

Thats like ordering a cheeseburger at a resturant and then whining because they didnt serve you a sirloin.

I think it is more analogous to ordering a cheese burger and getting a soy burger with imitation cheese and fake mustard.

Unfortunately there will be some that will opt for the PPP ticket and then find out what little they got and will then view AMA as just another scamming service provider such as the cell phone providers are now...big difference is that this is the only source and it is easy just to do without. Turn them off permanently is a good plan…

_____________________________

Wow! Another epiphany…that is why the suckups suckup. Super sucking protection power. Yea baby.

(in reply to bdavison)

Post #: 62

RE: Is the cost of the PPP membership fair to other ... - 3/21/2008 6:43:01 PM

KidEpoxy

Posts: 3223
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: online

quote:

Cant blame your poor choice on the AMA

Interesting that you consider the PPP a poor choice.

For those not playing along at home, in review,
I have twice said I can drop to $29PPP for the non ballot years, & pop up to $58 to vote.

Do I really have to quote STL saying nobody is stoipping me from flying anything. I just very clearly said I can fly nitro & FFF at the park as Outlaw & Member at the same pit. PARK, as in not at the club, so lets not start fretting over what I fly at the club.

quote:

but that proposal changed and now the clubs can make that choice

No, thei