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JKA reccomended mods - 1/15/2008 11:57:11 PM   
flyguyeddy


 

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ok i am building a fw190 and i need some advice.

i have seen how people use rubber bands to hold there wings on. is this a good idea? how are they installed?

where does one get BiDi tape locally?

i plan on using the spruce spars that came with my wing. bad idea?

wooden aileron: how and why?

and i have a brand new O.S. .20 FP that i plan to run on this thing. is that enough?

thanks for the advice in advance!

ps i did a search for several of the things i have asked and came up empty handed, so i did search first.
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RE: JKA reccomended mods - 1/16/2008 12:52:42 AM   
Alex Treneff



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quote:

ORIGINAL: flyguyeddy

ok i am building a fw190 and i need some advice.

i have seen how people use rubber bands to hold there wings on. is this a good idea? how are they installed?

That's pretty much the only way it's done for combat. Put about a dozen rubber bands on, and then criss-cross one over each dowel to make sure they don't come off. Shouldn't be a problem.

quote:


where does one get BiDi tape locally?

You can sometimes find regular rolls at some office stores (office max, depot, etc) or we have economy rolls (3x) online for a few bucks more. 3x-long Bi-Di

If you're just doing that one airplane, unless you're going to cover the whole wing, 1 regular size roll should do it.

quote:


i plan on using the spruce spars that came with my wing. bad idea?

The wood spars that come in the kit should be fine. Wood spars aren't as brittle as some other types so they don't shatter the way some do, fiberglass for example. And when they break, they are easy to glue back together.

quote:


wooden aileron: how and why?

Wooden (balsa) ailerons are normal. You can attach the aileron with the Bi-Di tape. Lay the aileron inverted on the top of the wing and put a strip of Bi-Di along the entire hinge line. Then reflex the ailerons down and put a strip across the entire top of the hinge line. Lou Melancon used to have an article about hinging the ailerons but I can't locate it.

quote:


and i have a brand new O.S. .20 FP that i plan to run on this thing. is that enough?

The kit is designed for 1/12 scale combat which (at competitve contests) are flown with .25's with tuned exhausts. The .20FP might fly it, but probably not like it's designed.


I have no idea how they fly or how well they hold up. I've never seen one in the air. Let us know how it goes.



< Message edited by Alex Treneff -- 1/16/2008 1:00:33 AM >


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RE: JKA reccomended mods - 1/16/2008 3:31:38 AM   
flyguyeddy


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alex Treneff


That's pretty much the only way it's done for combat. Put about a dozen rubber bands on, and then criss-cross one over each dowel to make sure they don't come off. Shouldn't be a problem.




my kit says to glue the wing on permanently and has no provisions for any kind of wooden dowel to be installed. im lookig for an install guide someone may have done for there JKA plane.

i think i will get the OS .25LA. is that a good enough engine to be running on this plane?

(in reply to Alex Treneff)
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RE: JKA reccomended mods - 1/16/2008 3:36:09 AM   
Alex Treneff



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quote:

ORIGINAL: flyguyeddy
i think i will get the OS .25LA. is that a good enough engine to be running on this plane?


I don't know about the dowels, I've never built a JKA combat plane, but if you are flying the plane in contests you'll probably want a 25FX. For sport flying the 25LA might be ok.

On the Battle Axe for example, we always recommend the FX over the LA becuase it has way better horsepower/weight ratio. Depends how you'll be flying the plane.



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RE: JKA reccomended mods - 1/16/2008 3:39:21 AM   
yankee samurai


 

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The coro doublers usually have a spot punched so the dowels can go through them if you use them. Watch the CG it has a short nose moment on it. An OS FX .25 would be a better choice than the LA, spend the extra money. Darin Bellis had an excellent article on building and modifing JKA kits, do a search for JKA it has been some years ago. The planes fly great.

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RE: JKA reccomended mods - 1/16/2008 4:55:57 AM   
flyguyeddy


 

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i searched through demon's posts but didnt find anything that stood out to me on the matter. i dont believe my doublers have any spots punched in them for dowels either. i shall look again tomorrow to try and find this article.

does anyone have it linked or bookmarked? care to shorten my search?

muchos gracias fellow pilots

i think i will get the FX. whats a few more dollars anyway.

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RE: JKA reccomended mods - 1/16/2008 1:11:50 PM   
Clean



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Are you going to use this for combat? If not, you really don't need to use the BiDi or rubberbanded wings, glue it on and play with it. But if you are flying for combat you will want to use the Bi-Di. Use the FX extra nose weight and power. If you're coro isn't setup for wing hold down dowels use an appropriate sized brass rod, heat it up and lightly press on the coro and cut your own holes into the coro. Let it cool and, sharpen the inside of the brass rod using a xacto knife and drill through the fuse and out the other side of the coro. You could also make 4 mil coro doublers out of the tailstock scrap. Then run your own dowels through the fuse to secure the wing. In combat, if the wing can shift instead of break you have an advantage and that is why they are rubberbanded on. Plus it makes them easier to maintain and transport.

Combat planes tend to look a little rougher than fun flying planes but Darrins usually just look like works of art anyways. But, if you aren't going to fly combat, you can take a little extra time and make the plane look really nice. Although taped on ailerons are the norm, you can use cya hinges and foam safe glue to index them and keep them from floating up and down with the tape hinge. Learned that from some slope soaring guys and it reminds me that my Sw-126's ailerons are still floating above the wing, sigh.

So tell us, you gonna play combat with that thing or not.

Back when we first started using the foam construction birds everyone else was flying balsa ships. Then you could mount the wings on permanent because the only thing giving you problems with wing shift was the ground. You'd plow right through a balsa ship and keep going. It was a wonderful experience this quick build foam ship making a 20 hour build disappear.

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RE: JKA reccomended mods - 1/16/2008 1:21:36 PM   
flyguyeddy


 

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this will be my first combat plane. i had a friend and his dad get planes so we can practice on our own in a nice big field before we go to matches.

so yes, this will be combated eventually.

so balsa trailing edge and hinge pin style hinges for the wings is the general consensus here? if so i can whip that up no problem. i just dont like cutting the hinge slots. i guess i could laminate the things together if i wanted to......


will the coro handle the bressure of the rubber bands? should i glass some of the foam around where they will go to make sure it does? i dont want any tearouts on this bad boy.


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RE: JKA reccomended mods - 1/16/2008 5:50:39 PM   
Clean



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They'll work. You don't have to have them and I didn't on mine, but I've never been able to get a good, solid hinge that doesn't slop around a bit. Plane still flew good but I wonder if it couldn't have flown better.

As far as the coro handling the stress. As I posted earlier you can add another piece of coro at the front and back of the wing, both sides of the fuse to help retain the dowels, but you have a huge chunk of foam that is the fuse that holds them in too.

Make sure and have a 6 ounce tank on that 25fx. You'll probably need it for a round of RCCA combat. I flew mine with Norvels and could get away with 4 ounce tanks because they were so sippy on the fuel. But those are long gone AND kinda a pain in ways that the FX won't be.

After you launch the FW, remember to throttle back after you've gained a bit of altitude. These are fast little planes and tend to get small fast. I remember flying mine in October after a 6 month layoff not being able to believe how fast it was flying, then remembering I was flying it full throttle, scraping the brush in combat the last time I flew it. It's truly amazing how much better a pilot you can turn into if there is a piece of streamer hanging 10 feet in front of your nose.

Well, some folks just go bats and smack it into the ground too. I mean, not everybody is as good as I am.

Vomit bags are stored under your seats.

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RE: JKA reccomended mods - 1/17/2008 5:59:45 AM   
yankee samurai


 

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flyguyeddy,
In the search box type in JKAerotech, go to page six, the 21st item down is Questions for Demon there you will find a gold mine of tips.

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RE: JKA reccomended mods - 1/17/2008 1:18:11 PM   
Clean



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Oh hooey, I taught Demon everything he knows, everything he DID know and everything he'll EVER know. You know?

But I think THIS is the thread your talking about

< Message edited by Clean -- 1/17/2008 1:20:40 PM >


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RE: JKA reccomended mods - 1/17/2008 2:23:55 PM   
sgilkey


 

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for a short wing like this, coro will work well for ailerons. coro has an advantage in that it takes prop strikes better, and if it's sliced by a prop, it's easy to fix with tape and bamboo skewers. A balsa aileron will often splinter when struck by a prop, and is harder to field-repair. You definitely want a fuse reinforcement for the wing dowels, there is a lot of tension on the rubber bands and they will rip the dowels out of plain foam. One solution is the coro doublers as mentioned, or about a 1 inch square of 1/16 birch ply or lite ply, glued to the inside of the fuse, with the dowel hole drilled through (use f/g rods for the "dowels" instead of wood, the wood will split in an impact, f/g "dowels" are virtually indestructible). an even better solution is to use .100" to 1/8" dia. f/g rod fuselage longerons, buried in the foam, that go from the firewall back to the tail- this will really toughen the fuse (not sure if the JKA has those by design... some planes do). run the lower longeron just above the high point of the wing saddle and the upper longeron near the top of the fuse side, where it starts to wrap over to the top. you can make the grooves for the f/g rods with a soldering iron dragged along a straightedge. bury them in the fuse with PU glue and a few wraps of strapping tape to hold them in till the glue dries. then when you install the wing dowels, drill the holes just above the lower longerons. this will just about ensure the dowels never rip out of the fuse. You still need doulers (ply or coro) to keep the dowels from tearing forward or backward, but the biggest load is downward, and this is absorbed by the longerons. don't notch the firewall for the longerons- have them butt up against the back of the firewall. otherwise, in a dirt nap, the longerons will poke forward with enough force to pierce engine parts such as the muffler. if they're butted up against the f/w, this is usually avoided, but what WILL happen is rods will tend to bow OUT and explode the fuse, that's why you wrap strapping tape around the fuse to hold it together.

Now that you have a rubber banded wing that can absorb impacts, you run into another big area where scale planes get ripped up- when the wing shifts a lot in a big hit, aileron torque rods will either get hung up and bind on the fuse sides, or they'll just rip the fuse to shreds. you can avoid this by laying down the servo in a well in the wing, and driving the ailerons with cables buried in the wing (make the cable grooves with a soldering iron), OR use dual mini servos for aileron (much easier but more costly). I'd recommend MG servos for aileron, if you use minis (ie HS81 or 85 MG). A standard size, resin-gear servo will usually work OK for scale plane aileron servo, but even those will strip in a major hit.

Tape aileron hinges are very durable. Conventional CA or pin hinges buried in the TE will rip out. The way to keep a tape hinge from allowing the aileron to pop up or down over the hinge line is to use a criss-cross arrangement. Using strapping tape, cut two strips about 1 1/2 inch long each. Stick them together sticky-to-sticky with about a 1/4 inch overlap, so you have a strip with adhesive on opposite sides, with the small center overlap. Using such strips in pairs, tape the aileron to the wing TE such that one strip is stuck to the top of the aileron, with the overlap area THROUGH the hinge line, and the other side of the strip stuck to the bottom of the wing. Right next to it, attach another strip opposite( ie stock to the top of the wing, overlap thru the hinge line, stuck to bottom of aileron). Use three or four such pairs of mating strips per aileron, and you have a nearly indestrucible hinge that won't creep. Then cover the hingeline with packing tape when you cover the plane. If your aileron is damaged, it's pretty easy to repair if it's coro, but if it's shredded, you can easily slit the tape hinges and tape on a new aileron in minutes.

Try to keep as much foam as possible in the front end of the fuse, ie make your tank cutout as small as possible. In an impact, the front end absorbs the brunt and you want as much structure there as possible. This is where f/g rod longerons really help.

Lay out your radio equip so the rx battery is in front of anything damageable, esp. your Rx. and use the small, light 300-400 nimh cells instead of heavier nicads, or 700-size nimhs. in an impact the battery becomes a battering ram and will crush the Rx or anything in front of it. It's much easier to control the smaller nimh packs, they are much less destructive!!

wrapping your fuse or other parts with fiberglass will not add anything but weight. fiberglass actually tears very easily and in an impact or prop strike it will fail. Try it yourself- glass a piece of scrap foam, bend it, and then notch it with an xacto knife- the notch will propagate and BOOM the part will break in a spectacular fashion. Using water-based polyurethane to adhere the f/g cloth, rather than epoxy, is an improvement but the f/g is still relatively brittle. Strapping tape is much tougher and will yield when bent, and is not so notch-sensitive.

A few more hours spent making these modifications when building will help keep your plane in the air, and help it endure the inevitable impacts to come!

(in reply to Clean)
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RE: JKA reccomended mods - 1/19/2008 10:58:38 PM   
flyguyeddy


 

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after you do the aileron hinge criss cross hinge things, do you go ahead and do the regular hinge method or is that all you need?

i have some