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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Pylon Universe - RC Pylon Racing >> Club 40 >> Engines
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Engines - 1/18/2008 7:56:25 AM   
skull1971



Posts: 765
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Willis, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Reading the rules, and thought we had to run Thunder Tiger, or Super Tigre 40's only. It states that ANY 40 engine under $120.00 retail. is this correct?

_____________________________

ERIC, Revver Bro. 159, NMPRA 59i, Knucklehead #1
Keeper of the South Texas SKULLY MAN!!
       Post #: 1

RE: Engines - 1/18/2008 2:36:06 PM   
gunfighter


 

Posts: 629
Joined: 7/13/2002
From: Canyon Lake, TX, USA
Status: offline 		You are correct Eric. The TEXAS rules allow ANY .40 engine with a retail price of $120.00 or less in Club 40. We have had OS FX, AX, Norvell, GMS, Evolution etc. run with us in addition to the TT Pro and ST. The engine must have the "STOCK" carb. and muffler supplied with the engine. The "Kikker" is the engine must idle for an extended time (up to a minute) and then transition to full power. This eliminates most "race tuned" engines.

Beginning this year, we will allow the ST GS 40 with a spec 11x4 MA prop in the Novice class.

We are still discussing rules on a National level and there seems to be some push to limit the engine(s) to just the TT Pro 40 and a spec prop (9x6). I will state publicly that I do NOT support this initiative. I believe it goes against the basic concept of CLub 40 which is meant to be a fun class with minimal rules. IMO, the best way to learn what works for you is to experiment. The 9x6 prop is great for 424 planes but (IMO) is not the best for the Sky Raider with it's large open front end.

Chuck

(in reply to skull1971)
       Post #: 2

RE: Engines - 1/18/2008 4:28:25 PM   
DonStegall


 

Posts: 624
Joined: 8/8/2005
From: Monroe, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Locally in the NC/SC area we are pushing the TT Pro 40 as the only engine for Club 40. No Novice class. We have also been using the APC 9x6 just so that speeds are comparable. Especially between the Sky Raider Mach II and the LA Racer 40. It does take away some of the fiddle factor and fun of experimentation on race day.

I have done extensive testing of different engines and props on Club 40 airframes. My fleet has a wide variety of combinations. I did have 3 Club 40 planes with TT Pro 40’s, but some of them have bitten the dust or are in need of service.

On Sunday 1-13 I had 4 Club 40 planes together with one still in the trailer. They are:

• LA Racer 40 with Thunder Tiger Pro 40
• Sky Raider Mach II with SuperTigre GS-40
• LA Racer 40 with O.S. 40LA
• Sky Raider Mach II with O.S. 46AX
• Sky Raider Mach II with Quickie JETT .40

I also have O.S. 46LA and Thunder Tiger GP 42 engines for testing.

I agree that the APC 9x6 is not the optimal prop for the Sky Raider Mach II. It is a good prop for the LA Racer 40 though. Especially on the 3 pole AMA short course. What I found is that on an SRM2, the APC 9x7 running on a ST GS-40 is reasonably close to an APC 9x6 on a TT Pro 40.

In my travels doing demos and fly-in events, I have run into resistance to the TT Pro 40 because the average sport flier does not seem to be familiar with the Thunder Tiger product line. I put an OS 46AX on a SRM2 so that I could see just what the difference is. It has more torque and a little more speed. Enough that it has an advantage over the TT Pro 40 in a race situation.

What I have also found is that if guys will really consider racing, they will buy what is specified. So I believe that we need to set a good example.

I like the ST GS-40 with an 11x4 prop for novices. It gets off the ground, has plenty of pull, and the speed is about right for true newcomers.

I like the idea of a single engine class for Club 40 Advanced racers using the TT Pro 40. But then the novices have to buy new engines. So that has issues.

My current recommendation would be to use the ST GS-40 with a spec prop for Novice. And the TT Pro 40 or ST GS-40 with prop selection allowed for the Advanced class. However, this is simply my opinion.


_____________________________

Don Stegall
RCPRO - http://www.rcpro.org - http://www.rcpylon.com

(in reply to skull1971)
       Post #: 3

RE: Engines - 1/18/2008 5:22:49 PM   
skull1971



Posts: 765
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Willis, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Chuck!!
The baffle HAS to be in the muffler, right?

Sorry Don but I like the idea of using one engine, I don't even like the TT40 on the 424 planes. Of course I want to put my Rossi's on everything

< Message edited by skull1971 -- 1/25/2008 5:36:10 PM >

_____________________________

ERIC, Revver Bro. 159, NMPRA 59i, Knucklehead #1
Keeper of the South Texas SKULLY MAN!!

(in reply to gunfighter)
       Post #: 4

RE: Engines - 1/18/2008 6:22:41 PM   
DonStegall


 

Posts: 624
Joined: 8/8/2005
From: Monroe, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I knew there would be guys like you out there. That's why I put the Quickie engine on the SRM2. I didn't know how the Sky Raider Mach II would do at much higher speeds. Surprisingly it is even more groovy when it is faster. Very solid. And very cool to fly as it goes really fast or slows down for those oh so nice landings.

The reality is that the TT Pro 40 is the official engine of AMA 424 and it makes sense to use it as the "recommended" engine at the minimum. When you race, you tend to buy 2 to 5 engines for a racing class. It is nice to be able to use that investment in more than one event. And the TT Pro 40 will be the official engine of Q-40 Sport if/when it goes into the books as a provisional event. So you would have 3 levels of performance and pilot skill demands using the same engine: Club 40, AMA 424 Sport Quickie, Q-40 Sport.

_____________________________

Don Stegall
RCPRO - http://www.rcpro.org - http://www.rcpylon.com

(in reply to skull1971)
       Post #: 5

RE: Engines - 1/20/2008 12:02:50 AM   
gunfighter


 

Posts: 629
Joined: 7/13/2002
From: Canyon Lake, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Eric - yes, in the Texas series, the baffle must be in the muffler if it came from the factory that way.
We have had several guys run the older Rossi's and Como's etc. with our group and they usually do not do well. Most of those engines are great at full power, but do not transition well which leaves them far behind at the start. And with the guys we have racing...if you get behind, it is VERY tough to catch up!
We start racing April 5th at ARCA in Austin. Hope to see you there!

I spent this weekend at a swap meet in Georgetown and must have talked to 25 or more people that are interested in joining our races. This should be a banner year!

Chuck

(in reply to DonStegall)
       Post #: 6

RE: Engines - 1/20/2008 1:24:11 AM   
skull1971



Posts: 765
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Willis, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Soooo,,,,, I CAN run my Rossi? LOL,, It only cost me $40.00 at a garage sale.

_____________________________

ERIC, Revver Bro. 159, NMPRA 59i, Knucklehead #1
Keeper of the South Texas SKULLY MAN!!

(in reply to gunfighter)
       Post #: 7

RE: Engines - 1/20/2008 1:44:47 AM   
gunfighter


 

Posts: 629
Joined: 7/13/2002
From: Canyon Lake, TX, USA
Status: offline 		As I said, we have had several pilots run older Rossi's. Bring it on Bubba!
It will not touch the TT Pro or the GMS!
Just remember, it must have the original muffler and carb. NO UPDATES or aftermarket parts!
We have several "engine Guru's" in our group that can spot modifications at a glance.

(in reply to skull1971)
       Post #: 8

RE: Engines - 1/20/2008 1:50:56 AM   
skull1971



Posts: 765
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Willis, TX, USA
Status: offline 		LOL Chuck, I have the old Rossi tuned pipe on it, and a carb from a 46, I have it on a Pred 1 as a 428 trainer. It's no Jett, but it holds it's own. Do the engines we use have to be current, or can they be discontinued? Like the OS fx40?

_____________________________

ERIC, Revver Bro. 159, NMPRA 59i, Knucklehead #1
Keeper of the South Texas SKULLY MAN!!

(in reply to gunfighter)
       Post #: 9

RE: Engines - 1/20/2008 3:14:05 AM   
gunfighter


 

Posts: 629
Joined: 7/13/2002
From: Canyon Lake, TX, USA
Status: offline 		We have allowed the FX in our races too. Old, New, we don't care as long as the engine did not cost more than $120.00 in current dollars (i.e. inflation)
We just want every one to come and race with us!! We are having too much fun for words!

There was a rumor passing around today (I was at a rather large swap meet) that a former, and I believe current, record holder in Giant Scale racing is going to join us for some races this season!!

(in reply to skull1971)
       Post #: 10

RE: Engines - 1/22/2008 10:37:51 PM   
lakefish4


 

Posts: 71
Joined: 6/14/2002
From: lake ariel, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Gentlemen, I need to bend the factory muffler interface (manifold?) another 20 deg. and the factory muffler will fit in the cowl. If I slip in a bend spring to avoid collapsing the manifold under heat while bending it, and get it cherry red ~ it would seem I can bend the additional degrees needed. Anywone know if this will or wont work? the muffler/manifold is for an OS 61fs or magnum 61fs

Thanks for any guidance! lakefish4@worldnet.att.net

lakefish4

< Message edited by lakefish4 -- 1/22/2008 10:43:55 PM >

(in reply to gunfighter)
       Post #: 11

RE: Engines - 1/22/2008 11:52:02 PM   
skull1971



Posts: 765
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Willis, TX, USA
Status: offline 		didnt think you could do that with aluminium (sp?) might be best to trim the cowl. Is this for a racer??

_____________________________

ERIC, Revver Bro. 159, NMPRA 59i, Knucklehead #1
Keeper of the South Texas SKULLY MAN!!

(in reply to lakefish4)
       Post #: 12

RE: Engines - 1/23/2008 12:12:20 AM   
gunfighter


 

Posts: 629
Joined: 7/13/2002
From: Canyon Lake, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Is this for a racer??


I certainly hope not - with a .61 FS?

I think he is talking about the header pipe which, I believe, is steel. It should bend OK.

(in reply to skull1971)
       Post #: 13

RE: Engines - 1/23/2008 1:45:40 AM   
lakefish4


 

Posts: 71
Joined: 6/14/2002
From: lake ariel, PA, USA
Status: offline 		THANKS FOR REPLYING GOOD BUDDIES ~ IT IS THE "HEADER" I WAS INTENDING TO BEND ~ SORRY! I HAVE MADE MUFFLERS OUT OF BRASS TUBING WHICH WORKED WELL (BE-2C FOR EXAMPLE WITH SMOKIN' TWIN 7" VERTICAL STACKS ~ BRAZED WITH A PROPANE BOTTLE TORCH) AND WAS THINKING OF THAT APPROACH AGAIN HERE BUT THEN REALIZED ALL I NEED TO DO ON THIS ONE IS BEND THE HEADER ANOTHER 20 OR SO DEG AND THE FACTORY MUFFLER WILL FIT FINE IN THE COWL.

AM JUST BEGINNING THE SCRATCH BUILD OF A 1/6TH SCALE 1934 DH-89 DRAGON RAPIDE TWIN ENGINE BIPE.

I WOULD ASSUME THE STEEL HEADER WOULD BEND EASILY IF HEATED AND BENT CAREFULLY AT THE RIGHT TEMP? I PREFER THIS APPROACH TO A 90 DEG HEADER AND IF I GET A POSITIVE RESPONSE I WILL TRY BENDING A HEADER.

LAKEFISH4

(in reply to gunfighter)
       Post #: 14

RE: Engines - 1/23/2008 1:56:23 AM   
gunfighter


 

Posts: 629
Joined: 7/13/2002
From: Canyon Lake, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Lakefish - I don't mean to be rude, really, but you might have better luck getting an answer in another thread intended for all engines.
This one is for discussion of engines used in Club 40 racing.

(in reply to lakefish4)
       Post #: 15

RE: Engines - 1/23/2008 3:04:33 AM   
lakefish4