How will it fly, what should I expect?  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Aerodynamics >> How will it fly, what should I expect?
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How will it fly, what should I expect? - 1/19/2008 10:24:45 PM   
daven



Posts: 6650
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Andover, MN, USA
Status: online 		I scratch built this plane over the winter, loosely based on some of my ideas and that funky Blohm and Voss. I also tried to shape the fuse in roughly an airfoil type shape since these planes spend a bit of time in left side knife edge.

Just curious on what I should expect on the test flight, and if I should mix any aileron or rudder to the elevator to offset any potential yaw or rolling issues?? The plane will fly at about 110-120 mph, and needs to be able to make a 100 foot radius turn (on knife). I'm concerned about what the plane will want to do at that speed, when I use that much elevator to make that 100 foot turn.

Also, curious in regards to what it may do on take off.



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RE: How will it fly, what should I expect? - 1/19/2008 11:24:11 PM   
BMatthews



Posts: 8797
Joined: 10/4/2002
From: Burnaby, BC, CANADA
Status: online 		Oddly enough you probably should have had the stabilizer on the other side. My thinking on this.... Up elevator will make it want to roll slightly to the left or more into the turn. That'll make it want to roll onto it's back and try to kiss Terra Firma. OK, so you mix in a little aileron so the left aileron is down and vice versa. But that means the left wing is producing more lift due to the aileron acting to increase the camber of the airfoil and also the angle of attack all at the same time. So the left wing is lifting more than the right. More lift brings with it more drag so the model has just exchanged rolling further into the turn for wanting to yaw towards the ground. Also you've got more drag on the left side than on the right thanks to the profile and induced drag of the stabilizer on the left. Again, it'll try to yaw towards the ground.

But if you were to put the stabilizer all or mostly on the right side and then trim in a little bit of aileron to counter the rolling couple as required then all the yawing would be helping to hold the model UP instead of trying to yaw it down. And if it was on the right it would be a tad more centered thanks to your fuselage offset so the rolling couple would be less and that means less aileron.

.... at least that's my musings on this.....


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RE: How will it fly, what should I expect? - 1/19/2008 11:50:47 PM   
Tall Paul



Posts: 4606
Joined: 6/23/2002
From: Palmdale, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Your single-sided horizontal is going to add a LOT of roll to the airplane when you try the elevator!
Pitch forces kinda need to be symmetrical.
I can see a nose high left roll into the ground in my mind's eye on takeoff.

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RE: How will it fly, what should I expect? - 1/20/2008 2:20:17 AM   
Campgems


 

Posts: 1645
Joined: 2/18/2006
From: Arroyo Grande, CA, USA
Status: online 		I probably shouldn't even respond to this as I am not that experienced, but here goes anyway. The concerns on take off I expect are very real. I have an orginal Quicke 500 that I am reparing, again. Your setup looks a lot like the quicke with the exception of the asymetrical fuselage and single sided horizontal. The quicke is difficult on take off and also on landing, but inbetween it is a ball. I expect your design will amplify these bad traits.

Get someone to take a video of the maden, I'm really interested to see what it does.

Don

(in reply to Tall Paul)
       Post #: 4

RE: How will it fly, what should I expect? - 1/20/2008 3:20:12 PM   
Lomcevak Duck



Posts: 866
Joined: 2/22/2004
From: Warner Robins, GA, USA
Status: offline 		I think it's going to want to yaw to the left in straight lines. Neat idea, though. Let us know how it does.

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RE: How will it fly, what should I expect? - 1/20/2008 4:18:37 PM   
Mike Connor



Posts: 1340
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Tulsa, OK, USA
Status: offline 		That just doesn't look right!! I think a video of the maiden is in order.

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RE: How will it fly, what should I expect? - 1/20/2008 4:59:35 PM   
daven



Posts: 6650
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Andover, MN, USA
Status: online 		Campgens, it is a Q500 plane, so I know what to expect in regards to that, I'm just curious if I should attempt to mix some right aileron in with elevator to compensate for any funky rolling it wants to do when I full a hard turn in full knife edge.

Not sure I want this documented in film

Test flight will happen on a weekday with minimal people around to witness. It will be at least April before the runway has melted.

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RE: How will it fly, what should I expect? - 1/20/2008 5:53:00 PM   
Campgems


 

Posts: 1645
Joined: 2/18/2006
From: Arroyo Grande, CA, USA
Status: online 		One last though, if the tail causes it to yaw and you have to dial in aileron to conteract that, and maybe some extra rudder to keep it on track, isn't all the corective controls going to cause more drag and slow things down some? Seems that the cleaner you can fly the faster you can fly.

Don

(in reply to daven)
       Post #: 8

RE: How will it fly, what should I expect? - 1/20/2008 7:08:29 PM   
daven



Posts: 6650
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Andover, MN, USA
Status: online 		You are correct, although at these slower speeds its not as detrimental as it is at 170 mph.

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RE: How will it fly, what should I expect? - 1/20/2008 9:32:22 PM   
Mike Connor



Posts: 1340
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Tulsa, OK, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daven


Not sure I want this documented in film


Think "Funniest Home Videos" and $10,000


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RE: How will it fly, what should I expect? - 1/21/2008 1:37:35 AM   
Campgems


 

Posts: 1645
Joined: 2/18/2006
From: Arroyo Grande, CA, USA
Status: online 		Dave, one more thing popped up, is the horziontal stab going to be strong enough to handle the double length and all the force on one side?

One other question, where does one find the rules for the quike 500 class. I think it is 50" span and 500 sq in wing, but how about cord thickness, fuselage length and such.

Don

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RE: How will it fly, what should I expect? - 1/21/2008 1:45:20 AM   
HighPlains


 

Posts: 2545
Joined: 3/2/2003
From: Over da rainbow, KS, USA
Status: online 		Go to the AMA web site, click on Technical Info/Events. Next page has listed on left side "Competition Regulations", click again on it, Then on the next page click on "Radio Control Racing". This will open a PDF file.

Or just click on this:

http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/rulebooks/RC%20Racing.pdf

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RE: How will it fly, what should I expect? - 1/21/2008 2:07:26 AM   
Campgems


 

Posts: 1645
Joined: 2/18/2006
From: Arroyo Grande, CA, USA
Status: online 		Thanks for the link. I need to do some reading now. This talk is nudging my broken quicke up on my to do list.

Don

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       Post #: 13

RE: How will it fly, what should I expect? - 1/21/2008 12:36:58 PM   
daven



Posts: 6650
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Andover, MN, USA
Status: online 		My biggest concern was stiffness and rigidity in the tail section. The INSIDE of the fuse is fiberglassed (3/4 oz) it also has Carbon Laminate 3/4" strips running length wise inside the fuse.

The tail is a sandwich. Center is 3/16" balsa, capped with 1" wide carbon Laminate and a layer of 3/4oz glass. Then as the glass was wet I added 1/32" balsa on either side and placed in a vacuum bag. After that dried, I inset 1/64" ply all around the outline of the tail on the centerline of the thickness. Then shaped, and airfoiled. It is about the stiffest tail I have ever made.

The wing is 52" with a chord of 9 3/4", it meets all other AMA rules for this class.

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RE: How will it fly, what should I expect? - 1/21/2008 5:37:03 PM   
TFF


 

Posts: 568
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Memphis, TN, USA
Status: online 		I would treat it like a v tail mix wise. I dont know if it is looks or something else in my mind but I think the stab would be better in the other side of the fuse.

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