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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 2:59 PM   
adrianojp



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From: Milano, ITALY
Status: offline 		Hello again Apache owners!

I would like to share my shopping list with you, in order to have some feedback on my selections. Suggestions and comments are very welcome!
  part brand model qty unit price line price
  HULL MHZ Mart's Apache WaveRider 0   0
  MOTOR RCMK New 520S motor 1 500 500
  MOTOR RCMK Tuned Pipe 260 2 68 136
  MOTOR RCMK Sub Muffler 2 37 74
  MOTOR RCMK Flus Header 1 26 26
  MOTOR RCMK 90 Header 1 26 26
  MOTOR RCMK Header Plange ST for 254 2 34 68
  MOTOR RCMK 0306000002 - Muffler End 2 2 11,2 22,4
  MOTOR RCMK 0204000011 - Long Venturi 2 14,6 29,2
  MOTOR HOBBY KING/TURNIGY T1538B - Turnigy Compact Re-Buildable Fuel filter 2 2 4
  DRIVE WD200 Z-Drive 2 172 344
  TRIM TABS WD200 Trim Tab GROBE 2 1 53 53
  GEARBOX WD200 GETRIEBE 3 1 328 328
  SHAFT assembly MHZ 1093  - Flexshaft 1/4" 1 17 17
  SHAFT assembly MHZ 1093/R  - Flexshaft 1/4" CC 1 17 17
  SHAFT assembly MHZ 1003/1  -  Brass Teflon Tube 1/4 1 24 24
  SHAFT assembly MHZ 1011  -  Brass tube holder 0,39" 2 12,9 25,8
  SHAFT assembly MHZ 2256  -  Flexwellensicherung mit Abfanglager 6,35 mm 2 22 44
  COOLING MHZ 1585/P Water Pump 2 28 56
  FUEL TANK MHZ 1924 - Benzintank 800ml mit Schraubverschluss  2 39 78
  COOLING MHZ 1791/DM  -  Wasser - Aufnahme groß - doppelt METALL 2 9 18
  COOLING MHZ 1795 -  Kühlwasser - Auslass groß 4 4 16
  BODY MHZ 1809  -  Lift and Turn - Hauben Sicherheitsverschluss 2 27 54
  BATTERY HOBBY KING TBD - 6v 1 30 30
  SERVO HOBBY KING/BMS BMS-L530DMG+HS 1/5 Scale Digital Servo (MG) 19.8kg / .15sec / 140.5g 3 25 75
  SEVO BOX WD200   1 30 30
      TOTAL     2095,4


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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 4:14 PM   
cheesewizz69



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Status: offline 		I did not see a clutch on the list but I may have missed it with some of that German . If you not going to run a clutch dump the water pump and anything else you were planning to use with it. Minus the tubbing of course.

Also drop the - Long Venturies they do nothing to help on a 257 or 929 carb and filter your gas out of the can don't restrict your fuel to the carb by using inline filters, so the Re-Buildable Fuel filter can come off the list as well.

Leo


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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 4:33 PM   
adrianojp



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Status: offline 		Thank you for your helpful contribution!

Actually I understand that the clutch is a part of the Gearbox, here you can see better: http://www.wd200-modellbau.de/?Getriebe%2FGearbox:Getriebe_III



part brand model qty unit price € line price €
HULL MHZ Mart's Apache WaveRider 0   0
MOTOR RCMK New 520S motor 1 500 500
MOTOR RCMK Tuned Pipe 260 2 68 136
MOTOR RCMK Sub Muffler 2 37 74
MOTOR RCMK Flus Header 1 26 26
MOTOR RCMK 90 Header 1 26 26
MOTOR RCMK Header Plange ST for 254 2 34 68
MOTOR RCMK 0306000002 - Muffler End 2 2 11,2 22,4
MOTOR RCMK 0204000011 - Long Venturi 2 14,6 29,2
DRIVE WD200 Z-Drive 2 172 344
TRIM TABS WD200 Trim Tab GROBE 2 1 53 53
GEARBOX WD200 GETRIEBE 3 1 328 328
SHAFT assembly MHZ 1093  - Flexshaft 1/4" 1 17 17
SHAFT assembly MHZ 1093/R  - Flexshaft 1/4" CC 1 17 17
SHAFT assembly MHZ 1003/1  -  Brass Teflon Tube 1/4 1 24 24
SHAFT assembly MHZ 1011  -  Brass tube holder 0,39" 2 12,9 25,8
SHAFT assembly MHZ 2256  -  Flexwellensicherung mit Abfanglager 6,35 mm 2 22 44
COOLING MHZ 1585/P Water Pump 2 28 56
FUEL TANK MHZ 1924 - Benzintank 800ml mit Schraubverschluss  2 39 78
COOLING MHZ 1791/DM  -  Wasser - Aufnahme groß - doppelt METALL 2 9 18
COOLING MHZ 1795 -  Kühlwasser - Auslass groß 4 4 16
BODY MHZ 1809  -  Lift and Turn - Hauben Sicherheitsverschluss 2 27 54
BATTERY HOBBY KING TBD - 6v 1 30 30
SERVO HOBBY KING/BMS BMS-L530DMG+HS 1/5 Scale Digital Servo (MG) 19.8kg / .15sec / 140.5g 3 25 75
SEVO BOX WD200   1 30 30
    TOTAL     2091,4


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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 5:10 PM   
cheesewizz69



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Status: offline 		I see it now. Nice piece, he has some very nice stuff and prices are much better than MHZ.

Don't forget to start a build thread. We love those with lots of pictures.....

Leo

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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 5:36 PM   
adrianojp



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Will do Leo, thanks!

P.s.: I love the apache in your avatar! It looks like an Expresscraft, am I right?

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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 5:44 PM   
cheesewizz69



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Status: offline 		Oooh Noooo Never...

It's the test boat Bill Woods of Performance Models used to build and test his Apache's in the 80's. Not very many of them around. I have another one and a friend of mines has the only other one I know of. I plan to get her ready one more time for a final trip around the lake before she becomes a shelf queen.

60" x 14" Seamless deck.



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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 5:52 PM   
martno1fan



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Status: offline 		Right now you have decided what your putting in her lets see if we cant figure out the best rail setup.I was thinking seeing as you have two pipes you may want an offset radio box on the right? if so i can lower the rails aft to allow it to sit over the rails or to one side any input Leo?.I do like rails locked into transom it adds stiffness to the hull etc so im not really wanting to shorten the rails if possible.Anyone know the measurements of these motors including mounts so we know what were working with ?.All suggestions welcome before i start installing them .
Mart

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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 6:06 PM   
cheesewizz69



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quote:

ORIGINAL: martno1fan

Right now you have decided what your putting in her lets see if we cant figure out the best rail setup.I was thinking seeing as you have two pipes you may want an offset radio box on the right? if so i can lower the rails aft to allow it to sit over the rails or to one side any input Leo?.I do like rails locked into transom it adds stiffness to the hull etc so im not really wanting to shorten the rails if possible.Anyone know the measurements of these motors including mounts so we know what were working with ?.All suggestions welcome before i start installing them .
Mart


Let me think about this and see if I can find measurments on the combo. Mart I wouldn't shorten the rails either but if you got rid of them this should work just fine.

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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 6:12 PM   
adrianojp



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Status: offline 		[/quote]

Let me think about this and see if I can find measurments on the combo. Mart I wouldn't shorten the rails either but if you got rid of them this should work just fine.
[/quote]


I LOVE that engine mount system!!
Where can I find one of them?
With that system, we could do without rails, and - Mart- just stick another layer of carbon upon the full lengh of the hull, and stiffness is achieved!

P.s.: yes, your apache really deserves to be a shelf queen!

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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 6:21 PM   
martno1fan



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Status: offline 		Ok no rails,makes my job easier ,dont think she needs any more carbon as ive allready installed more cloth along the keel and 4" up either side of it the full lengh of the hull.I can add carbon if you want but it will just add un needed weight.
Mart
ps not to mention more £

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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 6:22 PM   
FlogginHarvey


 

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Status: offline 		You are going to love the WD200 hardware. It is REALLY nice stuff. I have the clutch/gear box sitting in a box waiting for a project hull...the WD200 Z-Drives are really easy to set up but you will need some SERIOUS servos for each one (Werner suggested at least 275-300 oz/in PER servo) similar to the MHZ Z-Drives. Moving the thrust vortex takes some serious power!!! The on other detail that I might suggest on the drive lines, stop the stuffing tube just at the transom and take the teflon liner ALL the way into the front of the Z-Drive. Werner made that suggestion as well and I am VERY glad I took his advice. Keeps the Cable protected and greased MUCH better than leaving it open from the transom to the front of the drive.

Here are some pictures of my Dumas Scarab and video with the same drive. I think it's a fun setup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DCtZNWtIPc

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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 6:25 PM   
martno1fan



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Status: offline 		Thats the setup im going to try on my next one Trey wonder if it will take the power of the inline ,would need big servo power or maybe two lol.
Mart

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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 6:30 PM   
FlogginHarvey


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JaredW

Also, I never ran a kill switch back in the day.  I ran a fail safe but it only returned the throttle to idle.  Guess if I had a kill switch on my old enforcer it would have never hit the steel wall.  I guess this is standard?


We just ran the shootout here at LOTO and learned a really hard lesson about fail safes vs kill switches the switch gear failed in a friend's boat and his fail safe did not have the power necessary to return the throttle servo to "safe" position...the boat ran full song into the side of the pontoon boat tied up on the dock. Both the pontoon owner AND the RC boat owner were none-too happy and the RC boat is a total loss. Thank GOODNESS no one was hurt. Had he been using an RC Kill Switches Killer Bee or an Isamtec kill switch it would have grounded the ignition and the boat would have drifted to a safe hault WELL before the boat or dock was in proximity.

Long story short: the $100 KILL SWITCH is the BEST investment you can make on your hobby, you and your loved ones' safety, AND the long term use of all of our running spots so we can continue to grow our hobby...

At least that is my $00.02

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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 6:34 PM   
FlogginHarvey


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: martno1fan

Thats the setup im going to try on my next one Trey wonder if it will take the power of the inline ,would need big servo power or maybe two lol.
Mart


The drive is really nothing more than a steerable strut. The only thing taking the load is the flex shaft. HOWEVER, because we are to use a SQUARE DRIVE cable with this setup at the Collet end you want to make sure the thrust bearing is riding on the back edge of the drive. The shrinkage takes place at the front of the shaft because the cable will also shrink when steering if you cut it short or permantly affix it to the collet then it shrinks under load AND in a turn and WILL cause some really fun repairs...

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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 6:40 PM   
martno1fan



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Status: offline 		Steerable strut now you got me thinking,might ask a mate to get me one made up

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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 6:56 PM   
adrianojp



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Status: offline 		Got it Harvey, thank you!

Witch option of the killer RC offering do you suggest to buy?

For the WD200 drives, won't a 1/4 round flexi work when milled to square at the end?

Cheers,
AJ

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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 7:33 PM   
cheesewizz69



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quote:

ORIGINAL: adrianojp

Got it Harvey, thank you!

Witch option of the killer RC offering do you suggest to buy?

For the WD200 drives, won't a 1/4 round flexi work when milled to square at the end?

Cheers,
AJ


Never ever mill the ends of a flex cable you be asking for problems. The square end is made with a multi-ton press and die.

The mount is made my RCMK.

Cheers,
Leo


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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 7:35 PM   
adrianojp



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Status: offline 		I find it so strange that NOBODY has come up with steerable drives that also allow Trim adjustment via radio...

Have my thinking cap on to see if I can modify any of the exisiting offering to do this...

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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 7:42 PM   
cheesewizz69



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Status: offline 		MHZ dirves have that option. Not worth it my .02 always follow the K.I.S.S. rule.

Trim the boat for the days water condition if it changes, the adjust the next time in.

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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 7:56 PM   
adrianojp



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Status: offline 		Actually they told me they don't do the trim any more... Did you see it somewhere I could check out?

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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 8:32 PM   
cheesewizz69



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Status: offline 		I don't know what to say about that. They have them for sale on the US site. BTW never deal with the US guy, I'll warn this one time and won't say another word about it.

I'm posting the link here but it maybe removed by the admins since the US chap seems to have a problem with us sometimes. If the links below are removed search the MHZ for "Quicktrim".

http://www.mhzusa.com/Quicktrim-vI-Z-drive-vI-vII-vII-S6-vI-m-1729-v1.htm?categoryId=-1
http://www.mhzusa.com/Quicktrim-vIII-S6vII-vIII-m-1729-v3.htm?categoryId=-1

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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 8:49 PM   
adrianojp



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Status: offline 		Thank you, it does look and sound great!

I sent an email to my contact at MHZ germany, asking if the drive is available with trim option as of now.

Cheers,
AJ

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RE: apache owners - 9/23/2010 9:03 PM   
cheesewizz69



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Status: offline 		No problem.

I never asked if this was your first boat or what experience you have with RC’s. It looks like you want to add a lot of bells and whistles to great boat hull. Mart builds nice, great performing boats and I am not sure of what you are expecting as an end result.

Work closely with Mart as some of this stuff you asking for may need some fine tuning. I know some folks tend to blame the builder if things don't work, but sometimes its the customer that insists on things that just don't fit.

I have learned the hard way try to keep it simple and you will enjoy more time out on the water. Follow the KISS rule....

Cheers,
Leo


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RE: apache owners - 9/24/2010 8:42 PM   
adrianojp



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Status: offline 		Sorry for the late answer Leo, been busy here!

I have about 20 years experience in RC car building, have been an owner of a real Formula 29 boat, and this is my third RC boat.
Also have much experience in mechanics, as I have driven (and won) in the Italian Rally Championship, and now I plan and have built parts for performance cars.

My humble approach is normal to me, as I think that the more information, the better the choices!

By the way, after a long think, I have decided to go with the new RCMK engine, with the new twin MHZ Z-drives.

Cheerios,
AJ

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RE: apache owners - 9/25/2010 7:30 AM   
wannagofast115


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: apache 1

I'd be happy with that but I don't think I,ll get it . My hull is heavier and I'm using a clutch. Like to see yours on the move. My top secret mounts were not compatible with the sikk so i'm stopped again.
Anybody see the big expresscraft apache for sale here on RCU?   Daddy likes!!!!!!!
quote:

ORIGINAL: wannagofast115

Hey apache1 im running a similar setup im my apache I cant get pics up yet no camera but im running the same sikk with the same exact header and pipe. I had it on the lake today and was doing about 44mph on gps and I think it still has a little more left. Im running no trim tabs and it seems to run great with out them.. Good luck with your build.



Apache1 heres a short video of the boat running in the video I was running a 75mm 2 blade prop and the boat is doing about 37mph later on in the day I put a 3 blade on and the boat did 43mph but never did film. With a little more tuning and maybe a different prop i think i could get a little more out of it??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPALFEjjhzQ



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