P40-E 60 size ARF problems.

P40-E 60 size ARF problems.
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P40-E 60 size ARF problems. - 1/23/2008 2:07:36 AM

BryanSinHou

Posts: 13
Joined: 6/12/2007
From: Bellaire, TX, USA
Status: offline

I just ordered and recieved a P40-E Warhawk 60 sized ARF. I am starting to build it and have encountered a few problems. After reading through the instruction maunal, It looks like there are a few steps in the instructions missing. Particularly page 2 where it talks abou tthe airleron servo hatches. I cut away the material from the bottom of the wing after matching the approximate placement of the servo hatch, not listed in the instructions. Also, the hatch is about 1/8" larger than the size of the opening for it between the ribs. Is there a problem with this kit or maybe the accessories packages were mis-matched to this 60 sized for a 90 or something like that? Also on page 7, there is nothing but a blank space where I guess the arrows to where the elevator and rudder and throttle servos should go in the fuse. I found a piece of ply that has a slot where a servo would go (I assume for hte throttle) in one of the accessory packages and it barely fits in the fuse. I was told by a friend to contact this forum on these questions, but should I instead contact the company directly about possibly sending this kit back for a replacement?
Thanks for any help you can provide either via this forum or to my direct email: rcflyerb@comcast.net

Bryan Saldana

Post #: 1

RE: P40-E 60 size ARF problems. - 1/23/2008 4:33:33 PM

opjose

Posts: 5494
Joined: 11/26/2005
From: Poolesville, MD, USA
Status: offline

First, write down the C.G. and throws, then throw away the manual.

Yup it's that bad.

You selected one of the more complicated models to build, and as you've discovered the manual is of no help.

Given your description there doesn't seem to be anything wrong, but you are unfamiliar with this type of ARF.

See if you can get help from a more experienced builder.

Re: Hatch

This is typical. Simply file away material if needed and adjust. Try to avoid this whenever possible, but be away that you will have to do it from time to time.. Better that there be too much material ( which can be removed ) versus too little.

You'll also find that the servo holes may be a little small and you'll have to file away a bit of wood to make things fit.

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Post #: 2

RE: P40-E 60 size ARF problems. - 1/28/2008 2:55:20 AM

BryanSinHou

Posts: 13
Joined: 6/12/2007
From: Bellaire, TX, USA
Status: offline

Thsnks for the help. I have been taking my time and checking 5 times, measuring 3 times, checking again, then cutting. In checking things, I have had to figure out the proper sequence of gluying or cutting things in order for everything to fit. What do you think of using wood glue with wood sandings instead of epoxy?

Bryan

(in reply to opjose)

Post #: 3

RE: P40-E 60 size ARF problems. - 1/28/2008 3:39:20 AM

opjose

Posts: 5494
Joined: 11/26/2005
From: Poolesville, MD, USA
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Some people here swear by wood glue but only if clamped and let dry all night.

I prefer the convenience of epoxy.

As you build more planes you'll be mixing up tons of epoxy in each step of the process. Wood glue doesn't need this, but you have to wait much longer for it to dry.

Epoxy also can be used as fuel proofing when mixed with denatured alchohol ( acetone is sometimes recommended but it's VERY hard on plastic and plastic covering ).

I like Tower/Hobbico's Epoxy packs. The GP stuff is awful and dries out very quickly even when adecuately stored.

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Post #: 4

RE: P40-E 60 size ARF problems. - 1/28/2008 4:05:10 AM

BryanSinHou

Posts: 13
Joined: 6/12/2007
From: Bellaire, TX, USA
Status: offline

My problem is mixing the epoxy correctly. It says 30 minutes, but I have found that especially if i mix more than a few ounces, it starts getting hot (curing) inside 15 minutes. It seems to hold well though because I pull on the pieces after a day or so of leaving it alone and it does not give at all with all the force I can muscle. I am just worried about mixing epoxy and joining the main wings together as well as the tail surfaces.

Bryan

(in reply to opjose)

Post #: 5

RE: P40-E 60 size ARF problems. - 2/2/2008 7:58:18 AM

BryanSinHou

Posts: 13
Joined: 6/12/2007
From: Bellaire, TX, USA
Status: offline

Thanks for the input. Now I am having trouble with the wing joiner. I have epoxied the joiner into one side of the wing after I drew a line indicating the halfway point where the wings will meet. I am having trouble getting the other wing to set flat with the other wing. Now that I have sanded both sides of the exposed half of the joiner so much to try to get rid of the gap, the other wing fits loosely and STILL does not set flat with the other wing.

My concern is that even if I did get the gap closed or not (by using lots of epoxy to fill this gap), any mis-alignment when I do glue the wings together could result in a poor flying performance or the wing coming apart.

By the way, I did have to cut one of the airleron servo hatches down by approx. 1/8" in order for it to fit in the bay, the found the hatch would not set flat in the bay (rails crooked). And I had to sand quite a bit for the first of the retractable landing gear structure (plastic square where the gear pivots) to fit in the wing. I think parts of the wings are not built square.

The rest of the ARF seems to be okay as far as I can tell.

Taking this into consideration, Is it in this forum where I would talk with a representative with Nitro Models about getting a replacement set of main wings and joiner?

My direct email is rcflyerb@comcast.net

Thanks,
Bryan

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Post #: 6

RE: P40-E 60 size ARF problems. - 2/2/2008 8:34:32 AM

opjose

Posts: 5494
Joined: 11/26/2005
From: Poolesville, MD, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BryanSinHou

My problem is mixing the epoxy correctly. It says 30 minutes, but I have found that especially if i mix more than a few ounces, it starts getting hot (curing) inside 15 minutes. It seems to hold well though because I pull on the pieces after a day or so of leaving it alone and it does not give at all with all the force I can muscle. I am just worried about mixing epoxy and joining the main wings together as well as the tail surfaces.

Bryan

It sounds like you have a bottle of 30 minute resin mixed with a bottle of 15 minute hardener.

No matter the amount, I get 30 minutes almost to the second.

I prefer the Hobbico stuff, as the Great Planes Epoxy dries out VERY quickly once it's opened forming or looking like granuals.

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Build em'', fly em'', crash em'' and build more.

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Post #: 7

RE: P40-E 60 size ARF problems. - 2/2/2008 8:39:37 AM

opjose

Posts: 5494
Joined: 11/26/2005
From: Poolesville, MD, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BryanSinHou

Thanks for the input. Now I am having trouble with the wing joiner. I have epoxied the joiner into one side of the wing after I drew a line indicating the halfway point where the wings will meet. I am having trouble getting the other wing to set flat with the other wing. Now that I have sanded both sides of the exposed half of the joiner so much to try to get rid of the gap, the other wing fits loosely and STILL does not set flat with the other wing.

Are you talking about the point at which the two wings meet together?

If you find that the leading and trailing edges meet but the mid points do, then sand the wing root material itself.

Typically only a little bit needs to be removed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BryanSinHou

My concern is that even if I did get the gap closed or not (by using lots of epoxy to fill this gap), any mis-alignment when I do glue the wings together could result in a poor flying performance or the wing coming apart.

[/Quote]

Right, I tape a sheet of sand paper down on a work surface and sand the wing roots flat.

I do this BEFORE putting the joiner in place to check the fit.

Most ARF's need a bit of sanding or adjustment, no matter the manufacturer to get things right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BryanSinHou

The rest of the ARF seems to be okay as far as I can tell.

Taking this into consideration, Is it in this forum where I would talk with a representative with Nitro Models about getting a replacement set of main wings and joiner?

My direct email is rcflyerb@comcast.net

Thanks,
Bryan

PM John here ( Nitrostaff1 ).

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Build em'', fly em'', crash em'' and build more.

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Post #: 8

RE: P40-E 60 size ARF problems. - 2/2/2008 8:44:12 AM

BryanSinHou

Posts: 13
Joined: 6/12/2007
From: Bellaire, TX, USA
Status: offline

quote:

Are you talking about the point at which the two wings meet together?

If you find that the leading and trailing edges meet but the mid points do, then sand the wing root material itself.

Typically only a little bit needs to be removed.

The trailing edge is flat, but the gap is in the center and only in the top of the wing, the bottom meets okay. I can put a flat edge across the root rib where the wings meet and they seem level.

Bryan

(in reply to opjose)

Post #: 9

RE: P40-E 60 size ARF problems. - 2/2/2008 4:39:14 PM

SirHackEvil

Posts: 10
Joined: 6/23/2002
From: Poynette, WI, USA
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Sounds to me like you might not be adding in the wing dihedral. The wings should not be flat.

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Post #: 10

RE: P40-E 60 size ARF problems. - 2/2/2008 8:41:06 PM

opjose

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From: Poolesville, MD, USA
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I believe he is talking about the wing root junction points, where the two wing halves are epoxied together.

I just finished building another plane ( from a different manufacturer ) where I had to sand the wing root a bit to get the two halves to fit flat against each other... with proper dihedral.

On the other hand I don't know how much experience the OP has.

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Post #: 11

RE: P40-E 60 size ARF problems. - 2/3/2008 5:15:05 AM

BryanSinHou

Posts: 13
Joined: 6/12/2007
From: Bellaire, TX, USA
Status: offline

Okay, thanks for the input. I took it to a friend's house who has more experience building. We put the wing together and he noticed that the TE and LE were touching before the middle was able to. So we rubber-banded the wings together and used a women's nail file to sand the TE and LE high spots. after a little sanding, everything fit fine. We used wood glue that contains wood fibers and it went together perfectly with clamps and rubber-bands holding tension on it while it dries.

I'm a happy-camper now.

Now on to gluing the tail feathers to the fuse and the adventure continues....

Thanks again for the input,
Bryan

(in reply to opjose)

Post #: 12

RE: P40-E 60 size ARF problems. - 2/3/2008 6:20:13 AM

opjose

Posts: 5494
Joined: 11/26/2005
From: Poolesville, MD, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BryanSinHou

Okay, thanks for the input. I took it to a friend's house who has more experience building. We put the wing together and he noticed that the TE and LE were touching before the middle was able to. So we rubber-banded the wings together and used a women's nail file to sand the TE and LE high spots. after a little sanding, everything fit fine. We used wood glue that contains wood fibers and it went together perfectly with clamps and rubber-bands holding tension on it while it dries.

I'm a happy-camper now.

Now on to gluing the tail feathers to the fuse and the adventure continues....

Thanks again for the input,
Bryan

Great!

Yeah this is quite common.

Good luck on your assembly.

Take it slow.

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Build em'', fly em'', crash em'' and build more.

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Post #: 13

RE: P40-E 60 size ARF problems. - 2/4/2008 3:23:15 PM

SirHackEvil

Posts: 10
Joined: 6/23/2002
From: Poynette, WI, USA
Status: offline

I'm happy to see you have your wing figured out. I was not trying to question your
building skills. I work part time at a LHS and it seems like its the simple things people
forget or miss when building ARF's. Good Luck !!!

(in reply to opjose)

&nbs