Posts: 98
Joined: 9/25/2002 From: Luray,
VA, USA Status: offline
Hey guys, I'm going to need a little help here over the next couple months. Saturday afternoon I bought an old scale model of the Great Lakes 2T-1A biplane trainer, and all the advise I can get is going to be appreciated. I'm going to restore her back to flying status, hopefully by June.
Structurally, it's as good as the day it was built - there's not one loose joint and not one piece of broken wood, even though it's very obvious that the plane has flown quite a bit in the past. The covering was a total loss (silkspan & dope), and it's already been removed.
The plane has a wingspan of 56.5" with an 8" chord and she stands 38.5" long, ailerons on the bottom wing only (one of the traits of the "1A" . I have no idea where or when she was originally built, or what company kitted her but the engine bolt holes are 2" across and 3/4" front/back, so she originally had a rather large (physically) engine. As I calculated it, the wings give me 864sq.in. lifting surface (904 minus what the fuselage takes from the bottom wing).
I know absolutely nothing about her history, other than the fact that I think she was once used as a glider towing plane. There's a plywood sheet inside the fuselage just behind the bottom wing that once had something round (1/2" hole dead center in the panel remains) mounted in it and the outside of the panel was doped, like it was in the air/oil the same way the rest of the plane is.
Now, I'm going to REALLY grab at straws for a second. Just in case someone knows anything at all about this particular plane (and this would be the wildest stroke of luck), a bit of info on her; she was originally black with orange wings & elevator, had the numbers N1437D hand-painted on the wings & tail and a ident plaque on the sides under the rear cockpit that read "Paul K Franklin, 1513 Ferndale, Niles Michigan, Phone 616-684-0931
I called the number, it's no longer working.
I'm going to have a couple challenges here. First, the only part of the plane that's missing is the outer wing "N" supports which I'm going to have to re-create. Also, the flying wires will need total replacement but I'm pretty sure I'll get everything I need from Tower for that.
First question: original flying wire set-up was wires through the rib and out at the point the "N" supports mounted. They don't look "substantial" enough to hold up a french fry. They were connected to each other by a 2-sided screw-sleeve (can't remember what it's really called but I've seen them in the catalogs). What would be a better mounting (anchor) for the flying wires? I would think something like the old metal landing gear brackets from the 60's & 70's but I haven't seen anything like them in quite a few years. Any other ideas?
Second question: The time is going to come in the VERY near future where I'm going to be looking at an engine for her. I would think a modern .40 or .45 would more than do the job, but I may be way off. Any ideas what that 2" bolt width originally was, and what might do the job today?
Hey guys, I thank y'all for any help I might get in this little (?!) project. There WILL be more questions coming.
BTW, below is a pic of an original full-size 2T-1A, the model is an exact replica except for having a tail-wheel instead of skid.
Dave W.
_____________________________
Dave W. - - "Old-school" R/C & C/L Flier & Instructor
Posts: 98
Joined: 9/25/2002 From: Luray,
VA, USA Status: offline
Absolutely, Mike! Got several so far in the camera but I'm one of the "older" types and haven't yet gotten into the digital age, as far as cameras go. Going to have to correct that little item in the very near future.
The plane's almost completely stripped down now. The original silk covering was so delicate every time I touched a section my finger went through it. I'll be recovering with either light silk from RSM or medium silk from SIG. I've already sent for the new flying wires and mountings (whole kit available from Tower) and I'm still looking for a fuel tank that will fit in the space available (just 3.5" length but nearly 6" wide) and be big enough to give me some decent flight time. I'd like 10 oz but may have to settle for 6-8 oz due to space limitations.
I could put the fuel tank behind the firewall where there's more room, but that's going to be a true "last resort".
Several people have had the thought that the original engine was an ignition type, which would explain the rather small (for the plane's size) area for fuel tanks and the wide engine mount bolt holes.
Anyway, pics are definitely coming. In the meantime, I'm adding a couple pics of 1B and 1C variants. The 1B has the newer inverted engine and the 1C has a radial.
Dave
_____________________________
Dave W. - - "Old-school" R/C & C/L Flier & Instructor
Posts: 123
Joined: 12/17/2007 From: Wilmington, NC, USA Status: offline
Just for info, that N number N1437D has been registered to a 1951 Cessna 170A in Sheridan Oregon since 1956. Looking forward to seeing pics! Cheers Bill
Posts: 98
Joined: 9/25/2002 From: Luray,
VA, USA Status: offline
MICHAEL!! You're awesome! I'm 100% positive from looking at the photos that this is the same exact aircraft. Can't thank you enough for that one, now I know where the kit originated.
As to the registration #, that doesn't surprise me a bit. I've been in contact with the Pres. of Great Lakes Aircraft and have written permission to recreate the GL logo for the side of the plane. I've also heard from the company historian - photos and history are in the mail from that side of the house.
Engine & radio are on the way.
This critter's gonna fly before June!!
Dave
_____________________________
Dave W. - - "Old-school" R/C & C/L Flier & Instructor
Posts: 98
Joined: 9/25/2002 From: Luray,
VA, USA Status: offline
Bill, I thank you for the heads-up on the photo gallery. One of the things I've found out from the GL historian is that many of the 1930's era planes were painted what they called International Red (orange/red combo, leaning to red) with a black fuselage, or the same red and creme, pretty much in the pattern of that red one with the creme "teardrop" on the side of the fuselage. Those two particular color combinations and pattern schemes are apparently the two most common of them all at that time.
Every one of those photos is fabulous though.
One quick note here for all y'all: as you go through that website you might notice there's one 2T-1E model with a 3-blade prop. There are only 2 of these in the world, both owned by the same guy. They're powered by a 700hp TURBINE engine. One VERY unusual GL 2T.
I just happened to find a photo in that group that has the 2 most common schemes, side-by-side. It's below.
Dave
_____________________________
Dave W. - - "Old-school" R/C & C/L Flier & Instructor
Posts: 123
Joined: 12/17/2007 From: Wilmington, NC, USA Status: offline
Dave, That N number you have could very easily have been an N number to a great lakes before 1956. That number is on your plane for a reason it probably has a meaning / attachment to the owner of that model. If you go on the FAA web site and call the registration department they will look it up in the archives and tell you every plane that N number belonged too. It may take them a day or to but they are very helpful. If you have any problems let me know. I used to do research on lost airplanes for people and history. Cheers Bill
Posts: 123
Joined: 12/17/2007 From: Wilmington, NC, USA Status: offline
Michael, the last time I was dealing with them I was researching the final desposition of a an old J-3. Since it was no longer registered and its N number had been re-assigned, they had to go to the paper archives and research it. If you had a current N number to a registered plane and wanted to know if some other plane from the past had this N number they had to go to the archives and research that N number. At the time all Archive request had to be made by phone or snail mail request. I just felt like that N number could / may have belonged to a great Lakes in the past. How ever if it did it would have an NC before the number but when the C was dropped the renewal would be just an N. I forgot when it was that the C was dropped but I don't remember much after 3 days anyway. Cheers Bill
Posts: 98
Joined: 9/25/2002 From: Luray,
VA, USA Status: offline
Hey Mike, I thank you for that link. I just sent out a note to them to see if there was ever a 2T-1A with that registration #. We shall see what we shall see.
Also, the company historian just sent copies of the original factory 3-views & specs for the 1931 1A model, the 1E model and the 1935 design, which had enclosed canopies and was never produced.
Dave
_____________________________
Dave W. - - "Old-school" R/C & C/L Flier & Instructor
Posts: 98
Joined: 9/25/2002 From: Luray,
VA, USA Status: offline
Hi y'all - got a quick update on progress with the 2T-1A restoration.
FAA is sending me a listing of all the registration numbers that have ever been assigned to the 2T-1A, along with the dates they were assigned. This will help some in the "authentication" of the plane.
Radio is installed - works just fine. Futaba 6-ch computer-type (using 4 channels). I went with a computer radio after talking to a couple locals that have flown biplanes - they said the mixing of aileron & rudder with bipes is a really nice thing, and I have one on my 34-year old Sr. Falcon and have always liked the way she performs with it. The engine has arrived (Fox .45 w/propshaft extension & muffler with extension) and will be installed as soon as I've put some run-time on her. Still waiting for the custom fuel tank which should be here shortly. I did go for the external muffler, simply couldn't find anything that would fit inside the cowl (darn).
Still haven't decided exactly what I'm going to cover her with yet. I'm kinda hemming and hawing over SIG Coverite or silk, will definitely be using SIG dope to paint her because that's the dope I've got the most experience (all good experience) with and I know what to expect with it.
I'm still looking for flying wires. I know I saw them somewhere, in one of the on-line websites, just haven't been able to re-find them.
Pictures of the plane as it was when I got it, the tear-down and much of what's been restored are being developed, will be up in a day or so.
OH! A quickie question; SIG has decal paper (water-slide type) in sheets. Has anyone ever used this stuff? How would I go about getting my Great Lakes logo onto it (?printer?) and new FAA numbers, "NO STEP" notices, etc.?
Well, that's about it for right now. Pics coming as soon as I get them.
Dave
_____________________________
Dave W. - - "Old-school" R/C & C/L Flier & Instructor
Printable Version
All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Vintage & Antique RC >> Restoring an old Great Lakes 2T-1A biplane 
Restoring an old Great Lakes 2T-1A biplane - 
. I have no idea where or when she was originally built, or what company kitted her but the engine bolt holes are 2" across and 3/4" front/back, so she originally had a rather large (physically) engine. As I calculated it, the wings give me 864sq.in. lifting surface (904 minus what the fuselage takes from the bottom wing). 
