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What do we get and what do we need - 4/16/2003 7:23:11 AM   
Live Wire


 

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Every one has a Gripe what is yours.
what do you think AMA is and what should they do.

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Larry K AMA 36417
WACO Brotherhood #34
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What do we get and what do we need - 4/16/2003 7:58:48 AM   
JohnBuckner



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OK you asked,

My biggest gripe is the AMA Discussions forum on RCU that is the scene of excessive, repetitive, pointless and boring quote feature usage that goes on here incessantly and often to the useless end of quotes from the prior posters entire text.

Gentlemen if you are going to quote then great but at least have the civility to edit to the key point.

John

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"Keep your controllines tight"

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What do we get and what do we need - 4/16/2003 8:45:38 AM   
Live Wire


 

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OK I have one lets see what can be done ine a civil way. There are more than one or two that think that this is the greatest hobby -sport in the UNIVERSE What can we do to change it.
If it get out of hand may he with the big hand drop the hammer.

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Larry K AMA 36417
WACO Brotherhood #34

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What do we get and what do we need - 4/16/2003 6:56:17 PM   
rsallen13



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From: Montgomery, IL, USA
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnBuckner
OK you asked,

My biggest gripe is the AMA Discussions forum on RCU that is the scene of excessive, repetitive, pointless and boring quote feature usage that goes on here incessantly and often to the useless end of quotes from the prior posters entire text.

Gentlemen if you are going to quote then great but at least have the civility to edit to the key point.

John
[/QUOTE]

That maybe true , but the questions was are the biggest gripes with the AMA and not the RCU AMA Board.


Mine it the total disconnect of the AMA Executive board and the loss of focus as to what the AMA was designed to do. Its major focus is no longer modeling but liability control as a insurance provider and a land lord in Indiana.

(in reply to Live Wire)
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What do we get and what do we need - 4/16/2003 7:19:18 PM   
nascarjoe


 

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My question is what could AMA do to change things for the better?
The RC industry continues to struggle, ( I know, because I own a hobby shop and have many industry contacts) flying fields continue to go the way of housing and business developments and golf courses and for the most part, beginners still have a difficult time finding someone to spend much, if any time with them. In particular, what powers does those at AMA headquarters have to solve these monumental problems?

IMHO, logically, there is little to nothing that they can do.

nascarjoe

(in reply to Live Wire)
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What do we get and what do we need - 4/17/2003 5:13:10 AM   
Hossfly



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From: New Caney, TX, USA
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>>>>>>>>>>>
My question is what could AMA do to change things for the better?
The RC industry continues to struggle, ( I know, because I own a hobby shop and have many industry contacts) flying fields continue to go the way of housing and business developments and golf courses and for the most part, beginners still have a difficult time finding someone to spend much, if any time with them. In particular, what powers does those at AMA headquarters have to solve these monumental problems?

IMHO, logically, there is little to nothing that they can do.

nascarjoe
<<<<<<<<<<<<

Perhaps (read as IS) here lies two problems with the Industry and with AMA.
"....and golf courses and for the most part, beginners still have a difficult time finding someone to spend much, if any time with them."

So many self-proclaimed elitists in this sport scream that the RCer owes the beginner something. The Industry offers shabby equipment at inexpensive prices and small margins, then undercuts the local dealers, who actually are the sport's lifeblood.
The dealers are far too lazy to direct-order the slow moving things from the cottage industry, so prostitute themselves to almighty God *Great Pains* to get another $ margin even though they back up to GP for service.
No one goes on a rampage to get modelers to vote in an AMA Council that will place the emphasis on model aviation as a worthwhile SPORT for recreational benefit. Therefore, AMA stays on the self-serving Insurance racket, thus negating any national recognition for the sport, and enhancement of flying sites.
The industry mires itself in *toy* status, screwing dealer distribution, so no one has the capital to go out, establish Club-Owned flying sites to compete with the golf course. So many RCers with no model aviation background scream at the thought of paying $100.00 per YEAR RC Club dues, yet think nothing of $2-300 per MONTH for the country club.
Everyone wants ME to use my few remaining years to train newbies. WHY IN H-ll can't they demand that AMA recognize and encourage the PAID PROFESSIONAL FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR? Each club should have such on staff.
No golfer goes to the course to play and then wind up giving free lessons all day. Why should an RCer be expected to do that?
So what is the gripe? As stated above, a prostituted industry with no long term plan for the activity, an AMA that does not have to react to any member demands, because there are no member demands, at least at election time, and a society of activity participants that have no interest in other than "What's in it for me right now!"
And Oh Yes, I've paid my dues by investing $250,000.oo cash to have a great RC facility in my area. VERY POOR RETURN ON INVESTMENT!!! Now what?

_____________________________

Horrace Cain.
AMA Life L-93, Leader and CD for 45 years
Official Candidate: AMA Ex. Vice Pres. Vote H. Cain. Help move AMA into 21st Century
The only source of knowledge is experience. Albert Einstein

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What do we get and what do we need - 4/17/2003 8:03:21 AM   
tailskid



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I would love to see the AMA put some PR on TV, in the Sunday paper, etc.......that is IF we want the sport to grow.

Jerry

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What do we get and what do we need - 4/17/2003 3:19:27 PM   
nascarjoe


 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by tailskid
I would love to see the AMA put some PR on TV, in the Sunday paper, etc.......that is IF we want the sport to grow.

Jerry
[/QUOTE]

This is what totally baffles me. What I mean is, I'm new to all of this and my very objective perspective of AMA is that as of yet, I haven't seen much indication that AMA does want to grow.
I've read many posts from members either complaining or praising AMA, but what I never seem to read are responses from anyone at AMA headquarters. I sure would like to hear what they would have to say. AMA spent millions for new building, so why couldn't they spend some of those millions on TV ads? Keep in mind that I'm not bashing AMA, just trying to make heads or tails out of the whole thing.

I also cannot see why anyone would praise an organization that doesn't/cannot do much, if anything for the beginner, who is the future of the sport and organization. On the other hand, AMA does have the Sign 3 - Fly Free memberhip program, but it appears that too few have taken advantage of this free membership campaign. IMHO, it appears that members are the ones who don't want the sport to grow, if they did, AMA's membership numbers should be double the 170,000, if only every member signed up at least one new member. How hard could that be? Maybe this is a bit too simplistic, but if the members wanted the hobby to grow, I can't see why it can't be done. After all, those who sign up new members don't have to train them, just point to the many eager to help instructors most if not all clubs claim to have.

nascarjoe

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What do we get and what do we need - 4/18/2003 3:44:19 AM   
easysport



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Well it seems to me that as a sophmore flyer that thier is a lack of qualified trainers for newbies. Something needs to be done to encourage the old guys to spend time to give back to the sport that they have enjoyed for so many years. Mabey a free membership for trainers that can document thier work to AMA and ocasional gifts by raffle pais for by the millionares at headquarters to those that would spend the time to help us new guys keep from crashing our planes. There are many retired flyers who could benifit from this and with a little rcognition and gifts they may well do it.

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What do we get and what do we need - 4/18/2003 4:55:51 AM   
bobfox


 

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Lot's of interesting discussion. Here's my $.02 worth:

The industry- Producing, distributing and selling RC products is a tough business. In my opinion (I'm a financial analyst by day), you have to be either a very specialized (and high cost) producer (AKA Violett, BTE, etc) that addresses a niche market or a very low cost, high volume producer that addresses the majority of the market. In either event, you have to address modelers' needs in a quality way or you're out. I can think of several middle of the road producers (Goldberg, Sig) that didn't do either and apparently are having some difficulties even though their quality is excellent. LHS's are a different ball game. You simply can't be competitive unless you are large. A typical LHS with $8,000 of overhead (Salaries, inventory carrying costs, rent, ads, phones, electricity) needs $40,000 a month just to break even at 20% markup! That's about $2,000 per day and that get's no profit for your risk! I suspect that the few remaining LHS are running on a small percentage of loyal customers who don't mind paying a bit more and on a handful of newbies who need help and don't mind paying for it (Or are too dumb to know it).

By the way, I think that producers do an absolutely wonderful job of providing innovative and quality products at a reasonable cost.
The new ARF's are of great quality. Radios and servos are better and more reliable than ever. Engines are very reliable- all at much lower costs than ten years ago.

The typical modeler is somewhat guilty (Myself included) of fostering the environment that we're in. Hobby dollars come last (Well, for some anyway) and they are dear- we want to get the most we can, so we shop where we get the best bang. That's not the LHS, in most cases.

Now to the AMA.

I imagine Sam Walton starting his now famous chain of stores. He decides that the best strategic plan is to spend $10M on a Supergiantcossolialmonster Wal-Mart in Muncie Indiana. People from all over the U.S. would drive thousands of miles just for the privledge of shopping there. His business would grow inconcievably fast because the centerpiece of his business was simply so impressive that it would awe customers. They would have no other choice. K-Mart would have loved that scenario. As we know, old Sam has a lot more smarts than that and did things differently.

We (AMA) spent millions of dollars on the "National" site in Muncie, are continuing to spend significant dollars maintaining and upgrading it and we honestly think that we will influence people outside the hobby with it. Earth to AMA: It's not going to happen, just like it wouldn't have happened for Sam, even with quality merchandise, good service and low prices. The people don't come to you, you have to go to them. Of all of the people in the U.S. now, possibly 220 million (???), perhaps 1 million may visit the Muncie site in the next ten years- perhaps .5%. (This is just a guess, but I can't be too far off- How many people ever get to Indiana in their entire lifetime, much less Muncie, much less the AMA site there?)

Simply put, we got a "pffft" and not a "bang" for our buck with Muncie, if the real goal was to grow the hobby. Since AMA leadership is not dumb (Probably not as smart as Sam, but still logical and reasonable), I must conclude that the stated goal was growth of the hobby but the real goal was that the leadership wanted a showcase national site and was looking for a reason to justify it.

If you really believe that Muncie was money well spent in growing the hobby, consider this experiment: Randomnly survey people who are not already knowledgeable of RC. Ask them about Muncie. What percentage would you expect to answer that they had visited the AMA site or even heard of it?

It's like a corporation building a fancy showcase headquarters (EG Enron, Worldcom, AT&T, etc). It doesn't help the business much, if at all. It sure helps the executives' egos.

If anyone from AMA reads this, I'd appreciate a counterpoint.

Bob

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What do we get and what do we need - 4/18/2003 5:12:51 AM   
EDallas


 

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Interesting thread, but as so many do, it has gotten way out of focus. I have thoughts on a number of the points expressed, but
to articulate them here would involve a long response indeed.
To couple three of the thoughts presented, golf, TV advertising and a membership of 170K, the USGA only advertises when they are sponsoring a nationally televised event. Then the sponsor of the TV coverage pays the bill. What do members get from USGA membership? A rule book and a decal. when you look at an organization that has 170K members, that makes R/C flying an extremely esoteric hobby. I am a ham and there are about 450K just in the US, and most folks have never even met one.
Growing the sport is a double edged sword. Many members feel threatened by growth as they think the flying field will become too crowded. Others feel that if we don't encourage and bring the youth along, the hobby will die. There is nothing unique about these feelings. They persist in all esoteric groupings.


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My wife participates fully in my new
hobby. When I leave for the field,

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What do we get and what do we need - 4/18/2003 6:55:57 AM   
AQ500



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Being a member of an AMA air show team I spend hundreds a year travelling to different flying fields. I also spend a lot of money dedicated to things pertaining to the show team. I have introduced many people to the AMA over the years who have joined. My main gripe is that the AMA still requires dues from people that spend money and time to promote them. They give a discount, but I can get better deals than their discount.

I also do not like the double standard of rule enforcement at the many events I participate in. I have been uninvited to fly at a field, by the AVP, because I pointed out the double standard.

This is my last year in the AMA, I've already paid my dues for this year. Our field is not an AMA field and I have a healthy home owner's policy. The increase in the yearly dues and the fact I'm not going to travel back east to see the million dollar building helped me in my decision.

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What do we get and what do we need - 4/18/2003 7:42:49 AM   
Live Wire


 

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I think They are starting to listen, Know if we could get them involved thing could happen. MA June 03 Pres. col!!! he's only a day late and a $ well!

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Larry K AMA 36417
WACO Brotherhood #34

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What do we get and what do we need - 4/24/2003 2:39:34 AM