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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Everything Diesel >> Where to get Diesel fuel or ingredients in Australia????
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Where to get Diesel fuel or ingredients in Australia???? - 2/5/2008 3:23 AM   
CustomPC


 

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From: SydneyNSW, AUSTRALIA
Status: online 		Hi,

I'm curious to try a Davis diesel conversion and want to know (before i start) if and where i can buy pre-mixed diesel or the raw ingredients in Sydney, Australia.

< Message edited by CustomPC -- 2/5/2008 3:26 AM >

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RE: Where to get Diesel fuel or ingredients in Australi... - 2/5/2008 3:34 AM   
fiery


 

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From: Hervey Bay Queensland, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		kero ... any hardware store

castor ... Castrol M, any Castrol dealer; or (my preference) Lion Advanced De-gummed Castor Oil - any larger R/C shop.

ether (di-ethyl ether)... always a problem. Try a chemical/science lab supplies company. And be prepared for a shock at the cost. Get quotes ... prices can vary a lot, and you need to buy a 20 litre drum to get a good price per litre. Reagent grade is fine.

Oh, and be prepared for some enquiry about precisely why you want it. Enquiries for ether are of interest to law enforcement authorities. Ether is used to freebase cocaine I am told...

For small engines, use of John Deere starter fluid (80% ether) can be a convenient "safe" way to acquire ether for your fuel. Plenty of info in threads in this forum on this.

Ignition Improver (DII) - Amsoil diesel cetane booster works fine at 2%. Amsoil now have a distributor in Australia.

Lion may be able to supply "Pro-Glow" ( sic) premix diesel fuel. Look at this page:

http://www.tnet.com.au/~lion/Pro-Glow_Products.htm

While diesel fuels are listed, I am uncertain whether they is still available. Last I heard, they were no longer supplied.

< Message edited by fiery -- 2/5/2008 3:45 AM >

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RE: Where to get Diesel fuel or ingredients in Australi... - 2/5/2008 3:47 AM   
ffkiwi


 

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Status: offline 		I don't know if they are still in business under that name, but Ajax Chemicals were a good source for ether about 15 years ago-they were an Australasian Company then. During my time with the Dunedin MAC we purchased several 20 litre drums for club use. Certainly you can't do that in NZ now-and I imagine that the various Australian states may have slightly different approaches to regulation. At the time (1990-94 period) Ajax was by far the cheapest supplier. Obviously even if you can get ether through a chemical supply source, the smaller the amount you buy the dearer the unit cost. You would not be able to purchase less than 500mls through that type of supplier-and then it would be a high purity grade-spectral or HLPC grade-and priced accordingly. For normal reagent or solvent grade ether, the typical package would be a 2.5-litre winchester-and that could cost in excess of A$100 [I'm estimating here based on NZ prices from several years back] Certainly I'd reiterate fiery's comment that a 20-litre drum is the most cost effective option-but likely to be prohibitive for a single individual's purchase. As a group or a club, well worth it.

'ffkiwi'

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RE: Where to get Diesel fuel or ingredients in Austral... - 2/5/2008 3:52 AM   
CustomPC


 

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From: SydneyNSW, AUSTRALIA
Status: online 		Thanks fiery.

What's the usual mix for a diesel conversion?

I googled one place in Sydney that stocks diethyl ether in quantities of 1 or 2.5 litres but there's so many grades and acronyms i can't tell what's what.

Also, is this stuff dangerous to mix and store?

I might have to shelve my curiousity.

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RE: Where to get Diesel fuel or ingredients in Austral... - 2/5/2008 3:59 AM   
CustomPC


 

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Status: online 		Yikes!!!!

A phone call to the chemical supplier reveals that 2.5l is $108. I would hope it goes a loooooonnnnnggggg way

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RE: Where to get Diesel fuel or ingredients in Austral... - 2/5/2008 4:13 AM   
fiery


 

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DDD's mixes are proprietary.

I do know his BB ABC conversion mix (ball raced ABC engine). Bob Davis advised me of it as not being based in the U.S, we don't have access to his pre-mix fuels.

I am happy to advise you of the formula. PM me if you wish to know it. Bob should supply it if he knows he is supplying you as a customer outside the U.S.

"Old style" diesel fuel mixes do not allow Davis's conversions of modern ball raced ABC engines to perform as Bob intended.

Now, my personal all round favourite for ball raced (non DDD conversion) engines is:

5:4:3

5 parts kero (inclusive of 2% of total quantity DII)

4 parts ether

3 parts castor oil

Others have personal favourites.

Old style plain bearing diesels use a mix of 1:1:1 of kero, ether and castor oil, possibly with DII. This age-old formula is known in some diesel circles as "jungle juice"!

Search the fuels forum for "diesel fuel" and have some fun ... there are lots of thoughts on this subject!




< Message edited by fiery -- 2/5/2008 5:35 AM >

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RE: Where to get Diesel fuel or ingredients in Austral... - 2/5/2008 5:02 AM   
lildiesel



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Status: offline 		5:4:3 is rather close to the 40/40/20 percentage mix I use on ball raced diesels larger than 1/2A after break in. It should work fine on a DDD conversion. If Redline diesel improver is available in Australia you might try that -- I use 2% added to the whole volume even though the product contains more lubricant and detergents than cetane booster. That mix works nicely for my sport flying.

< Message edited by lildiesel -- 2/5/2008 5:08 AM >

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RE: Where to get Diesel fuel or ingredients in Austral... - 2/5/2008 5:56 AM   
fiery


 

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Have a read of this thread, particularly post # 17 if your prefer going down the commercial pre-mix route for your fuel:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6427707/mpage_1/key_jungle%2Cjuice/tm.htm

It seems that "Ozzie Traders" also have a pre-mix diesel fuel. However the price is prohibitive





< Message edited by fiery -- 2/5/2008 7:41 AM >

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RE: Where to get Diesel fuel or ingredients in Austral... - 2/5/2008 1:46 PM   
AMB


 

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Status: offline 		Custom . The easiest and least expensive way out down there is go to a John Deere supplier and
get the the John Deere . it is lableled John Deere 80% premium ether starting fluid. then you can use a mix of that ,Kero, or the lamp oil which is kero (maybe de odorized nice) and Castor oil Amsoil
cetane booster is one of the best and available for a plain bush engine use the PAW formula, A bb
engine can do fine on 20% oil. The Lab ether is out of sight price wise even up here nad of course the cetane booster 1.5 to 2 %
the stuff they sell in the auto parts store may be as little as 40% and has a lot of unknowns in it
The drill of refrigerating the John deere is not needed just hold the can upside down (OUTSIDE)
AND PUSH THE SPRAY BUTTON SINCE THE TUBE FEED GOES TO THE BOTTOM THE PRESSURE ,
CAN BE BLED OFF PROPELLANT IS HEPTANE , CAN IS NOW PRESSURE FREE THEN PUNCH 2 HOLES IN THE CAN BOTTOM AND POUR OFF INTO A CONTAINER ANY EMPTY TIN OF ALCOHOL, ACETONE, OR SIMILAR FROM THE HARDWARE STORE WORKS FINE. IT IS BEST TO MAKE SMALL BATCHS SAY A QT AGAIN USING
A TIN THAT HELD THE USUAL HARDWARE STORE SOLVENTS.YOU DO WANT TO BE 30%
ETHER
IN THE MIX AND THE OIL CAN VARY FROM 20 TO 30% DEPENDING ON ENGINE TYPE PLAIN BUSH 30% BB 20%
I have done this as well as other works fine the Deere fluid is about $4.80
for a 7 oz can. Using the Davis mix which is available here is much less of a hassel and have used his Queens mix in both BB and Plain bush engines
you just get a little more oil out the exhaust with queens blend (also known as plane fuel) martin

If you use the Davis formula for mixing he supplies for out the country (USA) use you will have no issues






< Message edited by dieseldan -- 2/5/2008 1:59 PM >

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RE: Where to get Diesel fuel or ingredients in Austral... - 2/5/2008 9:37 PM   
johnvb-RCU



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From: CanberraACT, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		I dropped into Kelletts in Liverpool in December and I'm pretty sure they had pre-mixed diesel fuel then. Give them a call?

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RE: Where to get Diesel fuel or ingredients in Austral... - 2/6/2008 11:32 AM   
Ployd


 

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From: Greensborough, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Hi CustomPC

As far as Australia goes kero and castor oil are not a problem but ether is as you have found out (I pay 60 bucks for 2.5 litres but then again we in Melb have a tame supplier) so your best bet is to seek out the modellers who fly team race at St Ives and you will find that they may be able to help you with ether at a more reasonable price (email Locktite 401 who is on this formum for details). You have not indicated what engine you intend to use this fuel in and that will dictate mixing ratios.

I would be very wary of some of the pre-mixed fuel sold in hobby shops especially those sold in plastic bottles, ether evaporates out of them over time.

Ployd in OZ

< Message edited by Ployd -- 2/6/2008 11:35 AM >

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RE: Where to get Diesel fuel or ingredients in Austral... - 2/13/2008 4:45 AM   
steve111


 

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From: Wollongong, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		I got some premix from Ozzie Traders last year - comes in a tin, not plastic, which is good, and worked fine in my PAWs 09 and 249. Ordered it through Modelsports in Fairy Meadow (Wollongong). Cost about $32 a litre though, so if I was going to be using a lot of it I'd be looking at other alternatives.

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RE: Where to get Diesel fuel or ingredients in Austral... - 2/13/2008 6:24 AM   
fiery


 

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From: Hervey Bay Queensland, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		As can be seen, prices in the U.S are much cheaper for pre-mix fuel.



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RE: Where to get Diesel fuel or ingredients in Austral... - 2/18/2008 7:51 AM   
locktite401


 

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Status: offline 		There is no real problem in obtaining good quality ether in Sydney, you just have to get in contact with the right people. Just get in touch with a club that flies free flight and/or control line. There is a very active diesel culture within the c/l team racing scene at SSME at Luddenham and KMFC at StIves showground. Check out ACLN (newsletter) on the Vicstunt web site (www.vicstunt.com) for contact details.

The local commercial diesel fuel is expensive garbage

By the way there has been a few changes to the quality of kerosene available in Australia lately.

#1 Because of the rapid rise in the cost of oil, the general quality of household kero has dramatically deterorated. Low quality base product is being used now to make it, to keep the cost down. Much of it is cr**! I know someone who used some of the most commonly available household kero to soak a dirty engine, and within 30 minutes it had permanantly changed the crankcase colour.

#2 Besides #1, all household kero is now tainted with an "ignition inhibitor" so that the producer doesn't have to pay the Australian Taxation Office an excise. It effects high performance diesels the most, but all to some extent. The Team Race community are using straight Jet A1 kero from Aviation Industry sources.



regards Ray

< Message edited by locktite401 -- 2/18/2008 8:33 AM >

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RE: Where to get Diesel fuel or ingredients in Austral... - 2/27/2008 9:23 AM   
ghost123uk



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On another forum here in the UK we have some Ausie Diesel flyers and they have been saying the Ausie Kero is not at all good for our purposes.

However I have recently done some testing and found that truck Diesel right out of the service station pump is just as good as Kero in the mix, if not better.

Check out the details at =

http://controlline.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3191&highlight=

_____________________________

JB in N.W. UK - (if you are into control line in my area, get in touch - we have a good scene going these days :) )

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RE: Where to get Diesel fuel or ingredients in Austral... - 2/27/2008 9:37 AM   
chevy43


 

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Status: offline 		Yes pump diesel works great mixed with cetain booster and engine oil. I have even flown with no ether in the mix at all but the temps must be over 70*F. and you might loose your idle and starting is hard.

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RE: Where to get Diesel fuel or ingredients in Australi... - 5/29/2009 9:55 AM   
airservices



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From: mandurah/western australia, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		See if you can find someone at your local airport and get some (jet a-1) most airports throw it away


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