RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars  
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RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 6/24/2008 10:15:18 PM   
swiggyj


 

Posts: 22
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: Boulder, CO, USA
Status: offline
quote:

I wouldn't take that fantasy report here on this string of flying a STOCK Guanli A-10 for 10 minutes very seriously, perhaps it was in a dream or day dream. (You'll notice that video evidence never materializes).


well, it has only been a couple of days, but I WILL produce a video! can you guys put into your calculations the actual rate of discharge for a 3 cell 11.1v lipo? and how exactly do you measure this? I live a mile high and just sunday i had a ten minute flight?????????? the wind picked up and landed in a field. by the way, i NEVER said stock! I have upgraded the battery only. nothing like joining a forum for help and getting slammed! VIDEO COMING SOON!

(in reply to websterphreaky)
       Post #: 251

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 6/24/2008 11:03:32 PM   
RysiuM



Posts: 1400
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Elk Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline 		After the last flight I took notes from charging the battery. Here is how the VPX battery is charged by keeping the charging voltage at 3.6V per cell (total 10.8V):



The charging time is less then 20 minutes that yields about 3C charging average. When the charging current drops below 1C the battery is fully charged (about 98%). Not bad.

_____________________________

Mather Aerospace Modelers, Inc.
AMA Gold Leader Club, Charter #1243, Sacramento, CA

(in reply to me 02)
       Post #: 252

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 6/24/2008 11:22:39 PM   
RysiuM



Posts: 1400
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Elk Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swiggyj
i NEVER said stock! I have upgraded the battery only.


You mentioned 1100mAh LiPo. I run Guanli DF of 3s LiPo battery at full throttle = it took over 10A. One unit. Guanli A-10 has two units what means at full throttle it should take over 20A of the battery. FYI 20A = 20000mA. This current would completly discharge 1100mAh battery pack in 3.3minutes.

If you fly 10 minutes it means you tly at less than 1/2 throttle and pateries are discharged by 3.3A to each DF unit. Going further with the calculation it is 11V * 3.3A = 36W. Using optimistic efficiency 68% you are delivering about 23W per unit with less than 100g thrust. So two units will give you less than 200g thrust what from my experience with this plane is very, vey low.

First what I would like to see on the video is the sound of the engine - what rpm did you get. The second how does it fly witch such low power.

_____________________________

Mather Aerospace Modelers, Inc.
AMA Gold Leader Club, Charter #1243, Sacramento, CA

(in reply to swiggyj)
       Post #: 253

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 6/24/2008 11:46:53 PM   
vettster


 

Posts: 243
Joined: 9/2/2007
From: Newmarket, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: canwhitewolf

must have been fun, what size battery did you use? what voltage

I built the A123 pack that Richard mention earlier in the post.

i have compleated the repairs and added some eFlight servos that I had kicking around. They HAVE to be better than what was in it. but Truth be told. Since that crash I have managed to fly my P-51 mustang with a OS.55 in her and MAN does she rip!! I have no problem flying it, all be it I was very nervous. On my secound flight with my dad giving orders(no buddy box! He's old school it tuns out, much to my surprise.) I took off did some circuits and even landed by myself. And all this left me wondering...what was I so afraid of with the A-10. I has only half the speed and is half the size and cost. I plan on flying the a-10 again very soon. But this time Im taking off that crappy landing gear that doesnt do anything but act like brakes if your on a grass airfeild.

(in reply to canwhitewolf)
       Post #: 254

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 6/24/2008 11:47:33 PM   
swiggyj


 

Posts: 22
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: Boulder, CO, USA
Status: offline 		is it possible at full throttle (at least what I think is full) the controller is not actually at full throttle? also, how does elevation/weight affect the run time? my lhs guys are telling me that no one takes into account the elevation? the air is thinner to push through?

(in reply to RysiuM)
       Post #: 255

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 6/25/2008 12:51:35 AM   
RysiuM



Posts: 1400
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Elk Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swiggyj
how does elevation/weight affect the run time?


Like in ANY plane the higher you get, the wore conditions for flying are. Thinner air gives less lift so you need to fly faster. Thinner air pushed through the DF units gives less thrust so you need to run DF units faster or bigger. All this translates to performance degradation at higher elevation. So my fried you fly this little guy in worse environment for flying that I do.


_____________________________

Mather Aerospace Modelers, Inc.
AMA Gold Leader Club, Charter #1243, Sacramento, CA

(in reply to swiggyj)
       Post #: 256

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 6/25/2008 2:06:56 AM   
websterphreaky



Posts: 113
Joined: 2/17/2008
From: San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Richard, they see lots of UFOs in Colorado too.

One factor you didn't add into your calculations of impossibilities (10 minute flight) even with a 11.1v 3s LiPO is that he says he's at 1 mile altitude too; much thinner air = even less lift that we're experiencing here in Cal at what 200 ft above sea level for you and 80 ft for me in SJC.

We tried a 3s 1500mAh 15C Mystery (brand) LiPO which weighs exactly the same as the stock Ni-MH (3-1/2 oz), on the stock A-10 before making the complete "RysiuM Mods" and we barely got 4 minutes in the air, including a VERY hurried landing, with a hand launch into a breeze (5 MPH). Sorry, I don't buy it.

Ps - The motors were "toasty hot" and so were the ESC ... so we only did that twice with a loooooong interval between. I didn'y care about the motors or the ESC frying except I didn't want it happening in the air. We were already planning to follow your lead on the mods and tossing the stock motors, ESC and radio RX.

Richard, have you thought of trying to use the rechargeable versions of the Li-ION CR123A batteries, which deliver 3 volts / 1000mAh each. These are much easier to recharge than A123 Li-ION batts.

"swiggyj" better tell your LHS friends to take some REAL flight lessons. Thinner air (less density) = LESS lift, NOT easier to push through, because you have to get in the air FIRST and STAY up. It's ALL about the density of air and it's effect on "Bernoulli' effect". Why do you think the U2 was 90% wings and the entire SR71 Blackbird airframe was a "lifting body" airfoil. They fly at high altitude = thin air = less lift.

I flew (real) fixed wing with my dad (WWII pilot) since the early 60's and the UH-1 and AH-1's in Viet Nam for 4 tours. Trust me, your LHS buds are full of BS. Learn from this - http://web.mit.edu/16.00/www/aec/flight.html

Here's a quote to learn - "The conditions of high altitude, high humidity, and high temperature all result in air that is especially low in density, and together these three conspire to reduce lift."

_____________________________

UH-1 Gunship and AH-1H jockey 1969 - 1971

(in reply to RysiuM)
       Post #: 257

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 6/25/2008 5:20:54 PM   
swiggyj


 

Posts: 22
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: Boulder, CO, USA
Status: offline 		webster, I think you should stop being degrading. Please read the post before responding
quote:

Here's a quote to learn - "The conditions of high altitude, high humidity, and high temperature all result in air that is especially low in density, and together these three conspire to reduce lift."

I never said I fly in high humidity. The average here is around 25%. here is a link to a youtube video I posted today to show that it does fly up here with the LiPo upgrade. This one is only 45 sec. long. The wind was 5-8 mph (you can tell at the end it was about 8 mph - look at the tail). I will send a longer one soon. I just need to get someone to film for me with a better camera. listen guys, I understand what you are saying, but I also am the one flying this plane. They do see UFO's south in the San Luis Valley, but we do have a large air force base in the same vicinity. I have never seen a UFO, but I counted 20 satellites crossing the sky one night camping at 10k feet. forgot to mention i landed in the field due to the wind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_S0wuyA7DY

< Message edited by swiggyj -- 6/25/2008 5:23:21 PM >

(in reply to websterphreaky)
       Post #: 258

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 6/25/2008 5:50:57 PM   
RysiuM



Posts: 1400
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Elk Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swiggyj
webster, I think you should stop being here is a link to a youtube video I posted today to show that it does fly up here with the LiPo upgrade. This one is only 45 sec. long.


Thanks for the video. It gives more information that any description can do. Your flying is exactly what I was experiencing when I was flying this plane stock (brushed motors) with 3s LiPo. It just hardly flies. The wind on the slope at the end of the runway let you get out of the ground effect easier than I had (My field is at flat open space). The engine rpm sounds right for about 10A on each motor (I hear probably 22krpm). And form the sound of motors I see you fly WOT all the time.

So all this is exactly like I wrote before. With that I can't buy 10 minutes flying time on one charge of 1100mAh. It just doesn't add up. I think it's time to buy a new watch

_____________________________

Mather Aerospace Modelers, Inc.
AMA Gold Leader Club, Charter #1243, Sacramento, CA

(in reply to swiggyj)
       Post #: 259

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 6/25/2008 5:53:56 PM   
swiggyj


 

Posts: 22
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: Boulder, CO, USA
Status: offline 		ok, I will. what does WOT mean?

(in reply to RysiuM)
       Post #: 260

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 6/25/2008 6:51:21 PM   
websterphreaky



Posts: 113
Joined: 2/17/2008
From: San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swiggyj

webster, I think you should stop being degrading. Please read the post before responding
quote:

Here's a quote to learn - "The conditions of high altitude, high humidity, and high temperature all result in air that is especially low in density, and together these three conspire to reduce lift."

I never said I fly in high humidity. The average here is around 25%. here is a link to a youtube video I posted today to show that it does fly up here with the LiPo upgrade. This one is only 45 sec. long. The wind was 5-8 mph (you can tell at the end it was about 8 mph - look at the tail). I will send a longer one soon. I just need to get someone to film for me with a better camera. listen guys, I understand what you are saying, but I also am the one flying this plane. They do see UFO's south in the San Luis Valley, but we do have a large air force base in the same vicinity. I have never seen a UFO, but I counted 20 satellites crossing the sky one night camping at 10k feet. forgot to mention i landed in the field due to the wind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_S0wuyA7DY


First off, stating facts and QUESTIONING the veracity of claims is not degrading. Check your dictionary and stop hyperventilating. Anyone has a right to question someones claims (based on their experience), especially if it steers others reading them in the wrong direction.

Show me where I said anything about you saying you fly in high humidity?? You asserted that since you fly at 1000 ft, the air is thinner and your LHS buds made the absurd statement that thin air is easier to "push through". Tell that to a real flyer and listen to the laughter.

I said, QUOTE: "Thinner air (less density) = LESS lift" !! in reference to your higher altitude.

The quotation given for you to learn from, offers a number of factors, QUOTE: "The conditions of high altitude, high humidity, and high temperature all result in air that is especially low in density, and together these three conspire to reduce lift."

It's obvious that YOU need to learn to read what is written, please. nuff said.

I'm still waiting to see a continuous, unspliced edited together, 10 minute flight video to believe your claims that those of use experienced flyers which have had the Guanli A-10 for a lot longer, know isn't possible even with any LiPO battery and the remainder being stock.

NOTE for anyone videoing: I do commercial video and audio editing for a living, if anyone has questions about how to video or edit their hobby video's, don't hesitate to ask. Tips are free.

_____________________________

UH-1 Gunship and AH-1H jockey 1969 - 1971

(in reply to swiggyj)
       Post #: 261

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 6/25/2008 7:38:34 PM   
swiggyj


 

Posts: 22
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: Boulder, CO, USA
Status: offline
quote:

perhaps it was in a dream or day dream. (You'll notice that video evidence never materializes).

quote:

Richard, they see lots of UFOs in Colorado too.

1. these statements are degrading and insulting!
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/degrading
2. In your quote to learn, it says high humidity?
quote:

I never said I fly in high humidity.

u have not helped me in any way, shape, or form. even though Richard does not believe me either, at least he is trying to help me understand. I am very new to this. I do not claim to know everything. I do believe what I see though. also, I said a mile high, where did you get 1000 feet?
quote:

It's obvious that YOU need to learn to read what is written, please. nuff said.
back atcha!

(in reply to websterphreaky)
       Post #: 262

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 6/25/2008 8:31:55 PM