RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars  
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RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 7/21/2008 10:07:07 PM   
canwhitewolf


 

Posts: 81
Joined: 5/29/2008
From: tor, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		thanks and i would imagine your right if one put 4s A123 in there the blades would be flying literally lol

thanks

(in reply to RysiuM)
       Post #: 351

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 7/21/2008 11:29:53 PM   
paintballplayer77


 

Posts: 3
Joined: 7/21/2008
From: , CA, USA
Status: offline 		I have been reading along the thread and I too am upgrading my guanli A-10. I am going to run two 370 motors with more than 4000kv each paired with dual 25 amp esc. I haven't really tested the range of the servos. Would anybody be able to tell me if it is worth replacing the stock servos. Right now Im running a hitec system x flash 4 radio and rx so does it make a difference.

THanks

(in reply to canwhitewolf)
       Post #: 352

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 7/22/2008 12:45:54 AM   
RysiuM



Posts: 1400
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Elk Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I'm still running stock servos - all of them. So far I did not have a reason to replace them.

_____________________________

Mather Aerospace Modelers, Inc.
AMA Gold Leader Club, Charter #1243, Sacramento, CA

(in reply to paintballplayer77)
       Post #: 353

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 7/23/2008 2:02:31 AM   
aginzu


 

Posts: 48
Joined: 10/7/2006
From: Aptos, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Well, I made the maiden flight on the A-10 this morning using the stock motors but with a TP 1320 mah 3S battery. I had previously measured the full throttle current at about 15 amps.

As predicted by others on this forum, it flew, but just barely. After taking off in about 100 feet, I managed to get around the pattern and the right landing gear came off upon touchdown. The landing was a little rough, but not too bad. It seems that there wasn't much glue holding the gear attachment block on. I also noticed that the fans made some "clicking noise" at lower rpms. There is plenty of gap between the rotors and the fan housing so I don't know where the noise was coming from. If one or both of the fans was contacting something while spinning, that could have contributed to the reduced thrust and poor performance. I had to stay at full throttle for the entire flight (until landing) and the battery was pretty warm when I removed it. On the positive front, the plane handled pretty well once it was airborne, it just felt very underpowered. I now believe that the reports of it being a pretty good flier with more power are correct.

It's all academic, however, since I have already ordered a couple of the Hobby City 4400KV motors to do the brushless conversion. I was hoping that I could fly it in the meantime on the brushed motors with reduced performance, but it's so bad that I will wait until the BL's arrive before trying to fly it again. I plan to use two 1320 3S batteries each attached to one of two speed controllers.

Overall, one needs to consider this a pretty good looking foam ARF with partially pre-installed servos. The speed controller, battery, charger and motors are pretty useless. The radio, I guess, might work, however I replaced the receiver with a 72mhz version so I can't comment on how well the 27mhz am system would work. Anyone want to buy a brand new 27mhz radio system... cheap? The servos seem to work o.k., for one flight anyway.

Had I known what I now know I probably would not have purchased this model, however, it's not a terrible deal for $95 even with the additional cost of the upgraded motors and fans. I recently crashed my Alfa Mig-15 and that one was over $150 without any servos but with a nice 60mm fan assembly. It flew very well with a brushless motor setup. I look at the A-10 as similar to the Mig-15 as a way to get into DF flying. If the A-10 crashes it will only cost $95 to replace, versus $150 for the Mig so it's not really too bad a deal, but it's also not the bargain that a $95 RTF would be.

< Message edited by aginzu -- 7/23/2008 2:04:07 AM >

(in reply to RysiuM)
       Post #: 354

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 7/23/2008 2:17:51 AM   
RysiuM



Posts: 1400
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Elk Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Looks like everybody has the same hopes (flying stock setup with only Lipo upgrade) and then the same disappointment (spending additional money for motors-esc combo at least).

I would recommend trashing existing fans. I have made 6 hubs for them and I was getting very nasty vibration every time. I though my work was not precise enough. Then I replaced fans with GWS rotors and so much difference - they tun faster and quieter. Even with my hubs.

You can hear the same noise even from the promo video from banana hobby. Fans are way off balance and the whole plane makes a noise like a hammer-drill.

I have also ordered 4400kv motor from Hobby City ( HXT 2435 (370S) 4400kv ) for experiments with my spare GWS EDF-55 unit. I wonder how much rpm and power I will get at 3s LiPo. I think it will be very hot setup. I may expect more than 15A, probably close to 20A. Anyway this fan will go to scratch built depron Jet. I don't have plans yet but it will be single engine unit for sure.


_____________________________

Mather Aerospace Modelers, Inc.
AMA Gold Leader Club, Charter #1243, Sacramento, CA

(in reply to aginzu)
       Post #: 355

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 7/23/2008 10:38:57 AM   
canwhitewolf


 

Posts: 81
Joined: 5/29/2008
From: tor, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I find it disappointing and actually surprising that this plane wont fly with that kind of voltage

has anyone flipped this plane upside down and leveled the tailplane and then put an angle meter on the wing to see what the incidence angle is....I think it might be worthwhile just in case that when they designed it something was a little off perhaps

probably will come out properly but worth checking i would think, im still waiting for parts and plane is still in the box or I would check for this

(in reply to aginzu)
       Post #: 356

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 7/23/2008 5:26:08 PM   
RysiuM



Posts: 1400
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Elk Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline 		It will not be so easy, as the profile of the wing is ... let's say ... different. It is something like semi-symetrical with undercuber at the back (something like with flaps extended). Maybe this is the secret why the plane floats so well. And also why there is so much power needed to overcome that drag.

But the main thing about this plane is that it has very nice aerodynamic setup in which the plane behaves so well when stall condition exist. It does not fall of the sky, does not snap - just slows down and makes steep approach responding to ailerons and elevator input all the time.

_____________________________

Mather Aerospace Modelers, Inc.
AMA Gold Leader Club, Charter #1243, Sacramento, CA

(in reply to canwhitewolf)
       Post #: 357

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 7/23/2008 8:00:11 PM   
canwhitewolf


 

Posts: 81
Joined: 5/29/2008
From: tor, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		what would you think it would fly like with rearward facing propellors and stock motors with maybe a 3s lipo..

..more thrust i would think and one wouldn't see the props in the air hardly.

if I could think of a way to attach/detach the nacelles easily i would experiment with this,

ducted fan one day - propellors the next etc

(in reply to RysiuM)
       Post #: 358

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 7/23/2008 8:46:59 PM   
RysiuM



Posts: 1400
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Elk Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Honestly - I do not like propellers on jet planes. With all the advantages of prop power over DF it just does not seem right. You get a jet model for the look and for the "cool" factor, not for flying characteristic. Jets don fly acrobatics, don't perform 3D and so on (I know there are exceptions). If you want a very nice flying plane for economy power get a prop model. There are plenty of them. But if you want to have jet looking plane don't spoil it with the prop. Props will make "buzzing" sound, will be visible on the ground and at close fly-by. It's not right, man. When I look at the "prop-jet" model I feel sorry the same way I look at a pet-dog decorated for Halloween.

It it does not convince you let me tell the story. One day when I was taking full-scale lessons, I saw an ultralight plane landing at our airport. Kind of funny looking machine compared to all Cessnas, Pipers, Moonies and other singles and twins. I pointed at that ultralight turning to my instructor but before open my mouth he said: "Don't laugh. It will be like laughing at retarded child." So if people don't laugh at these "prop-jet" models, you will now know why.

_____________________________

Mather Aerospace Modelers, Inc.
AMA Gold Leader Club, Charter #1243, Sacramento, CA

(in reply to canwhitewolf)
       Post #: 359

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 7/23/2008 10:47:41 PM   
canwhitewolf


 

Posts: 81
Joined: 5/29/2008
From: tor, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		funny and good point lol

maybe the guy with the prop jet might get the last laugh though due to performance lol

(in reply to RysiuM)
       Post #: 360

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 7/24/2008 1:10:56 AM   
vettster


 

Posts: 243
Joined: 9/2/2007
From: Newmarket, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RysiuM

It's not right, man. When I look at the "prop-jet" model I feel sorry the same way I look at a pet-dog decorated for Halloween.


[/quote



Yes Im still reading along.

(in reply to RysiuM)
       Post #: 361

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 7/25/2008 7:18:09 PM   
canwhitewolf


 

Posts: 81
Joined: 5/29/2008
From: tor, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		thats a great price on those HXT 2435 370S motors,

might order two myself

(in reply to RysiuM)
       Post #: 362

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 7/25/2008 7:39:53 PM   
RysiuM



Posts: 1400
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Elk Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Now it's to late for me, but someone might try HTX2445 kv=3790 (from Hobby City) For one dollar more it should be better fit than HXT 2435 kv=4040 with 3s LiPo. it is about 1 oz more for the plane but it well should balance 140g battery. It will take less current than my setup with A123 so longer flying time with the same performance.

I'm not sure if the alternative option can be HXT 2435 kv=4400 (for 1 dollar less) with 2s LiPo. You can use lighter 2s LiPo battery pack but I think the performance may be a little less than my setup. This one 'm not quite sure.


_____________________________

Mather Aerospace Modelers, Inc.
AMA Gold Leader Club, Charter #1243, Sacramento, CA

(in reply to RysiuM)
       Post #: 363

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 7/25/2008 7:47:05 PM   
aginzu


 

Posts: 48
Joined: 10/7/2006
From: Aptos, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I started the BL mod on the A-10 yesterday, expecting arrival of the parts in a few days. It flew so poorly on the stock motors, even with a 3S LiPo battery, that I decided not to fly it again with brushed motors.

To remove the old motors, since I didn't have the separating pliers and long M2 screw that others have used, I made a variation of the " V tool" with the center bent at 90 degrees (see attached photo). I used a long machine screw, nut, and cut-off needle inflator (used to inflate balls with a foot pump). I inserted the inflator needle into the center hole of the rotor, clipped the wires around the back of the rotor, inserted the long screw with the nut under the bend in the center of the tool into the inflator, and used a screwdriver to turn the screw while holding onto the nut. It pulled the rotor off nicely. I used the same thing without the inflator needle to remove the motors, but had to grind the end of the long screw to a point so that it would stay in the end of the rotor shaft adapter.

I plan to use two 3S 1320mah 13C batteries, one connected to each ESC for power. These can handle about 17 amps and weigh about 81 grams each and I think I can fit one into the nose and the other on the battery platform. I'm hoping the 4400KV motors don't draw more than 17 amps. If they do draw more, I may try to limit the throttle range to keep the max current within range of the battery specs, or use different batteries like 2S LiPO's or A123's. Has anyone measured current draw of the HXT 4400KV motors on 3S LiPOs with the GWS rotors yet?



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< Message edited by aginzu -- 7/25/2008 7:48:33 PM >

(in reply to vettster)