RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars
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RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 3/8/2008 3:37:15 PM

shschon

Posts: 18
Joined: 7/10/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Status: offline

Realflight Website:

http://www.realflight.com/

Retailer website
http://www.towerhobbies.com/

Try it out you can usually find one you can try for free at a good sized hobby shop.

I have FMS and realflight. After first try of Realflight I never look back. You really get what you pay for.

Also these RC sims are reproducing the flight characteristics of RC models, NOT THE REAL PLANE. You give description of real plane you won't get the same response as a RC model.

As to the A-10 in realflight add-on 3, don't expect too much. It is one of those plane models in real flight add-on that have some issues. It floats too much when you try to land.

quote:

ORIGINAL: websterphreaky

quote:

ORIGINAL: RysiuM

Yes, I used FMS. I found FMS is often "to easy" to fly - quite unrealistic. There are many aspects of flying physics not implemented in there therefore many models don't fly like a real one, especially at the low speed or high angle of attack. Actually for A-10 it may by OK, as A-10 supposed to fly on the wing and that part of simulation is OK in FMS. But as soon as you slow down to stall speed and then apply control inputs the FMS does not behave naturally. For most propeller powered planes I found Real Flight (G2 or G3) quite good. I simulated GWS C-47 which in the simulation flies 100% like my real one with the only exception of taxi - the real model is not as responsive to the rudder input as the simulated one. I have also simulated few 3D planes and RF was very accurate - saved me few bucks as I was prepared for weired slow speed behaviour during the maiden flight.

I don't have all disks for RF so I did not try A-10, but I'm going to buy Add-Ons Vol3 with Warthog, then I will be able to modify all values to Guanli model's data. Then I can tell.

I've tried the Demo's of "ClearView RC Simulator" (kind of cheezy, the scenery is just a picture file), "RC Flight Master" ( either cheezy picture scenery or computer generated files not much better than FMS), and the nicest one but expesive "PRE-Flight RC Simulator" (too limited on flight models). I couldn't find any info on your Real Flight simulator. Where is that one listed on the web?

I disagree on the flight physics employed in FMS and I think most of their serious sim model developers would too. I talked to a couple of the FMS model developers and they have told me that they put in 12 to 20 hours of computer design time on the available kit planes and heli's airframes and flight characteristics files. My son and I are working one guy on a sim model of a super accurate 1/7th scale "gas" AH-1G Cobra we are building from scratch. I flew the AH-1G in Nam. The Dev is telling me to plan for a good 30 hours computer time from him based on the info we give him.

Perhaps some of the FMS sim devs are sloppy on the physics, but I noticed that two of the three Simulator programs above, either use the same FMS models or let you import the FMS sim models. They can't be bad if "pay for" Simulators uses those sim models.

Anyway, we're hoping that the sim model we're having made will be accurate enough to practice with.

(in reply to websterphreaky)

Post #: 51

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 3/9/2008 12:14:58 AM

RysiuM

Posts: 1341
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Elk Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shschon
I have FMS and realflight. After first try of Realflight I never look back. You really get what you pay for.

I second that. I have both - installed but FMS is just to enjoy the view of the plane not the flying properties. The problem in FMS is that the program has very simple flying physics regardless of the model, and the model data input parameters to built in functions. It doesn't work that way. I don't know why it is like that but in example if Cap 232 has the same dimmensions and profile as Extra 300 it doesn't fly like Extra.

Missing in FMS is in example propwash affecting control surfaces, ground effect, tip stall, engine torque - just to name few. But it is great free simulator to learn "which way is up/down and left-right". I used it a lot before I got RF G2. I tried RF 3 and 4 and they are even better, but not as much to be worth buying new top of the line PC.

quote:

ORIGINAL: shschon
As to the A-10 in realflight add-on 3, don't expect too much. It is one of those plane models in real flight add-on that have some issues. It floats too much when you try to land.

Man, I just ordered Volume-3. I will try to replicate this Guanli A-10 and see how it goes. GWS C-47 worked great and it is 100% accurate to the flying real model.

_____________________________

Mather Aerospace Modelers, Inc.
AMA Gold Leader Club, Charter #1243, Sacramento, CA

(in reply to shschon)

Post #: 52

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 3/9/2008 1:28:05 AM

websterphreaky

Posts: 87
Joined: 2/17/2008
From: San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyclops2

The most accurate & realistic military aircraft simulator is....... Jayne's..Fighters Anthology.

It had full scary , unexpected flat spins. In correct Delta wings. The A-10 is fantastic against ground and air with cannon.

Stall warnings, body shudder, Targets track and fire on you. Waddle or die.

Has most every jet, bomber & heli.

Great for us frusrated & grounded fighter jocks.

Rich

I think we're talking about RC Model Simulators here, not FPS for hundreds of bucks. I flew real combat 1969 - 71, anything simulating that on a computer screen is a "game".

(in reply to cyclops2)

Post #: 53

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 3/9/2008 8:10:49 PM

cyclops2

Posts: 1810
Joined: 12/23/2005
From: Frenchtown, NJ, USA
Status: offline

$20 2 discs. You can fly in or out of the plane, zoom out to practise flying and landing, plus it will stall the plane & collapase the landing gear if you are abusive or lazy.

No, you can not plug in your Futaba transmitter. But for getting the hand - eye cordination, it is great.
How many of us have a live firing A-10 ?

Enjoy

Rich

(in reply to websterphreaky)

Post #: 54

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 3/12/2008 8:19:23 AM

RysiuM

Posts: 1341
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Elk Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline

I installed Add-ons volume 3 and started to play with A-10. I took measurements from Guanli model and it was around 33% of the scale of A-10 that came with add-ons 3. I made sure, that I got the CG, Landing gear and weight right. I also "converted" it to EDF with simulating fan units for the thrust that I got.

Now for the flying I found it just flies exactly the same as Guanli model. Takes forever to lift off, and then long flight in the ground effect to pic up some speed. Then the model can cruse. If I tried to force the model up it will end up in high angle of attack and then these engines can not overcome the drag, so model eventually will fall down.

Then I increased engine's rpm about 30%. This is different kind of flying. Model does not go unlimited vertical (the static thrust is about 15-20oz, but climbs very well. All these things listed in the ad are possible (rolls, inside and outside loops). So the model can fly very well just need much more than stock power. Model doers not float on landing - it behaves exactly the same way as it did at the field.

I noticed very strange thing on RF G2. When I put the model vertical until it looses all speed it goes into spin and never recovers. I wonder if this is only RF G2 bug or the real model will do the same.

_____________________________

Mather Aerospace Modelers, Inc.
AMA Gold Leader Club, Charter #1243, Sacramento, CA

(in reply to cyclops2)

Post #: 55

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 3/12/2008 6:50:18 PM

websterphreaky

Posts: 87
Joined: 2/17/2008
From: San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA
Status: offline

Is this sim model of the Guanli A-10 exportable to use on the FMS Simulator program? If it is, can I get a download from you?
Interesting results, should help decide which direction to go for updated motors and battery.

WARNING on NitroPlanes.com !!

While we're on the subject of this Guanli A-10 which it seems we all bought from Nitro Planes (AKA RaidenTech, AKA eGrandBuy.com and few other AKA's - watch for the SAME phone number!) These guys can be real jerks. I decided to buy my youngest son a 4CH FW-190 they sell (also Gunali) for $89. When the box arrived and we opened the shipping box we were shocked to find that they INSTEAD sent us a 4CH ME-109!! (apparently their dope shipping clerk can't tell the difference between FW-190 and ME-109)

The order emails they sent us clearly stated I ordered the FW-190 and the shipping manifest on the box said FW-190, but it was an ME-109 in the box. I tried calling their phone number 25 times in one day - either busy or no answer! I tried to clear this up with their "online chat" agent, who torld me to "call them" - that was a waste of time! I Emailed them three times in two days, telling them to correct their mistake, send me a return prepaid shipping labels and ship me the FW-190 we ordered. Finally three days later, they wrote "ship it back (at your expense) and we'll give you a shipping credit" !! B S, it was their goof!

I've ordered two other planes and a Heli from them before (thank god they got those right), and this is a terrible way to treat a customer. I will never buy from them again. So BEWARE of this dealer. You'll never get through to them by phone if you have a problem and you'll be paying to return any item that's wrong or defective.

(in reply to RysiuM)

Post #: 56

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 3/12/2008 8:00:06 PM

RysiuM

Posts: 1341
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Elk Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: websterphreaky

Is this sim model of the Guanli A-10 exportable to use on the FMS Simulator program? If it is, can I get a download from you?
Interesting results, should help decide which direction to go for updated motors and battery.

No. Real Flight G2 in Add-Ons Volume 3 has giant scale turbine A-10 simulated (it's about 20lb model). I used this model (flying profile) and changed all parameters (measurements and weight) from Guanli Styro model, then I changed powerplant to EDF using similar to GWS EDF-55 (it was quite tricky to get the trust numbers right). Simulated model weight 1.6lb and depends on power (easy controlled by number of cells) it behaves like with stock motors or simulated brushless setup.

I really like RF G2 because it gives the "feel" of the model and it is easy to check it the model "can do that" without breaking it into pieces. Real Flight has something in it (I don't know how it works) that the flying characteristics depends not only on measurements and profile, but it varies from one model to another. In example if you modify CAP 232 and put all measurements from GP Patty Wagstaff Extra it will not behave like the real model. But if you modify Extra 300 and put exactly the same numbers, it will fly like a real one. Something is telling me, that RF G2 has some "hidden" calculations that varies from model to model. This is why it is important to modify the same airplane type to achieve replication of your model. I did it for many of my models and results were amazing.

Sorry for your messed up order at nitroplanes. I have read about them and theirs terrible customer service many times. If you get lucky and your order is not messed up, package is not damaged or factory did not screwed up, you can get good deal from them. If you have problems (and it happened many times) better take the loss and save yourself from frustration. I guess not having customer service is the reason for their low prices. Unlike Walmart, they don't get any returns from customers

_____________________________

Mather Aerospace Modelers, Inc.
AMA Gold Leader Club, Charter #1243, Sacramento, CA

(in reply to websterphreaky)

Post #: 57

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 3/13/2008 4:41:49 AM

websterphreaky

Posts: 87
Joined: 2/17/2008
From: San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RysiuM

quote:

ORIGINAL: websterphreaky

Is this sim model of the Guanli A-10 exportable to use on the FMS Simulator program? If it is, can I get a download from you?
Interesting results, should help decide which direction to go for updated motors and battery.

No. Real Flight G2 in Add-Ons Volume 3 has giant scale turbine A-10 simulated (it's about 20lb model). I used this model (flying profile) and changed all parameters (measurements and weight) from Guanli Styro model, then I changed powerplant to EDF using similar to GWS EDF-55 (it was quite tricky to get the trust numbers right). Simulated model weight 1.6lb and depends on power (easy controlled by number of cells) it behaves like with stock motors or simulated brushless setup.

Sorry for your messed up order at nitroplanes. I have read about them and theirs terrible customer service many times. If you get lucky and your order is not messed up, package is not damaged or factory did not screwed up, you can get good deal from them. If you have problems (and it happened many times) better take the loss and save yourself from frustration. I guess not having customer service is the reason for their low prices. Unlike Walmart, they don't get any returns from customers

I guess my Son and I are going to have to scratch together some bucks and buy Real Flight soon.

re. The jerks at NitroPlanes, - I called Discover Card and filed a "Dispute" with NitroPlanes charge. Mailed them a copy of my order confirmation and pictures of the shipping manifest and a pictures of the wrong plane in the shipping box. Discover Card froze the CC payment to NitroPlanes and has written them a letter telling them to rectify the order with return shipping label and shipping the right plane to us. I won't have to pay until Discover sees this happen.

(in reply to RysiuM)

Post #: 58

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 3/13/2008 5:59:51 AM

RysiuM

Posts: 1341
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Elk Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: websterphreaky
re. The jerks at NitroPlanes....I won't have to pay until Discover sees this happen.

Prices at Nitroplanes a going to go up

_____________________________

Mather Aerospace Modelers, Inc.
AMA Gold Leader Club, Charter #1243, Sacramento, CA

(in reply to websterphreaky)

Post #: 59

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 3/15/2008 4:01:31 AM

websterphreaky

Posts: 87
Joined: 2/17/2008
From: San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RysiuM

quote:

ORIGINAL: websterphreaky
re. The jerks at NitroPlanes....I won't have to pay until Discover sees this happen.

Prices at Nitroplanes a going to go up

Hey, I posted a ranting complaint about this lousy CS treatment from them on the NitroPlanes section of RCUniverse forum for all to see .... guess the public flogging got some attention, because I just got two emails from NP - one was a FedEx notification that they shipped out (I'm assuiming) the right (FW-190) plane, and another email with a Prepaid FedEx return shipping label for the wrong (ME-109) plane they sent.

Kicking some public ass works. My youngest son will be all smiles soon.

(in reply to RysiuM)

Post #: 60

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 3/19/2008 8:50:23 PM

websterphreaky

Posts: 87
Joined: 2/17/2008
From: San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA
Status: offline

RysiuM,

Where did you get the pilot to use in the cockpit of your GL A-10? What scale is the pilot and what is it made of? Extremely light? Looking for one of the correct scale and lightness to use on my youngest sons GL FW-190 (we finally got it from NitroPlanes).

Also, any progress on your choice of A-10 replacement brushless motors, speed controller and battery size/type/brand? What brands and model numbers?

You're the guru here on the GL A-10 so far.

(in reply to RysiuM)

Post #: 61

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 3/20/2008 5:35:14 AM

RysiuM

Posts: 1341
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Elk Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: websterphreaky
Where did you get the pilot to use in the cockpit of your GL A-10? What scale is the pilot and what is it made of? Extremely light?

Please don't laugh. I carved them from pink foam. He is not really scale looking pilot, as I'm not really an artist.

. But because he is small and behind the glass, the paint did good covering job.

quote:

ORIGINAL: websterphreaky
Also, any progress on your choice of A-10 replacement brushless motors, speed controller and battery size/type/brand? What brands and model numbers?

Yes. My ordes was just shipped today. I hope to get it this or next week. Two TowerPro n20 ESC and two HXT 2435 (4040kv) Bl motors. I read that this motor is good combination for EDF-55. I will see when the order arrives.

_____________________________

Mather Aerospace Modelers, Inc.
AMA Gold Leader Club, Charter #1243, Sacramento, CA

(in reply to websterphreaky)

Post #: 62

RE: Nitro Planes A-10 Warthog for 95 dollars - 3/20/2008 6:11:27 AM

websterphreaky

Posts: 87
Joined: 2/17/2008
From: San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA
Status: offline