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RE: Aquacraft Mini Rio - 5/21/2008 1:25:39 PM   
Wheelnut



Posts: 5002
Joined: 10/25/2003
From: Annandale, VA, USA
Status: offline 		I know the motor could handle it but it would shorten the life of the motor. It gets pretty hot on 7.2V. The esc could also probably handle it for a while, but since the esc does not have a voltage output regulator to the servo, I am betting that the servo would burn out quickly. That happened to me on my mini-t. Cheap servo's don't last long anyway I guess.

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RE: Aquacraft Mini Rio - 5/21/2008 5:47:28 PM   
Stinger9d9



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From: Georgetown, ON, CANADA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wheelnut
...I would say it was more possible to be a defect in the wire itself...


Now that is a possibility. If the wire had a little too much carbon in it, you may have inadvertently hardened it, and made it brittle. I have complete faith in your soldering skills, but bad wire is just that...bad.

If you try that loctite stuff from OSE, it would allow you to assemble a wire drive with no heat at all.

That way, once and for all, you could prove whether an 0.047" wire (completely unaffected by heat) is too weak or not.

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       Post #: 202

RE: Aquacraft Mini Rio - 5/21/2008 6:26:36 PM   
Nina Roses Dad


 

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From: San Francisco, CA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sussur

Ey guys,


has anyone tried running the Mini Rio with 8.4V 1100mAh 2/3A NiMH battery? can the stock ESC handle the extra volts?

Thanks

Richard


In the mod thread for the Reef Racer (which has the same electrics) I've heard it works great. Even a 2000mah AA 6-cell makes a difference in the RR over the stock pack (in my own experience) though the 2x3 one I have won't fit inside the MR. The motor in the Reef Racer runs cool because it has a cooling coil wrapped around the motor, but the MR doesn't, it just has that plate and a short piece of tubing (even though Aquacraft's website would still have you beleive that "The factory-installed 380 motor features a water-cooling jacket for efficient performance even at high speeds."

But, those 7 little cells are going to overheat because the motor will draw more current because it's turning the prop faster against the resistance of the water. Runtime will be reduced. I've decided to go with LiPo in my MR and install a cooling coil around the motor's can.

I was thinking about 7 cells or LiPo myself and so I took some amps readings in the bathtub from a Reef Racer just to get an idea of what the difference might be with the extra cell (same electrics, subsuface drive, different prop (the MR is surface drive and I'd have to fool around too much with whether the boat was on plane, how much the prop was submerged and all that BS). On the 6 cell stock pack the draw was about 4.75, on 7 sub-c cells, it was close to 10 (and the ReefRacer wanted to take off like a raped ape). Of course, you'd never fit 7 sub-c cells into either boat, but I was more interested in what the motor might draw and how much more thrust it could deliver rather than explore the limits of what a 2/3A pack could deliver.

So, my next trip to the LHS will be to get a piece of 3/16" tubing so I can make a cooling coil like the one in the RR. When I install that, I'm going to rotate the motor can 90 degrees so the oval-shaped holes next to the brushes are at 12 and 6'oclock so the brushes can run a little cooler (there's no fan in the can but warm air rises and if the holes are at the top & bottom of the can instead of at the sides it can only help). Next comes a bracket (to hold a 2000mah LiPo over the driveline) that I'll attach to the cooling plate on the motor (using the holes that used to hold the little cooling tube). I'll probably put heavier wires on the ESC's battery lead and change over to Deans mini plugs.

I keep thinking that if I go LiPo I might as well go brushless too. Not so much for all-out speed that's going to give me driveline headaches, but for just enough speed to get the boat on plane quickly, and the higher efficiency that's going to give more runtime. So I'm thinking a lower Kv brushless motor on 2C would make the boat more fun for my 7yo daughter and then I could put in a 3C pack and have my fun almost like having 2 boats in 1...

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       Post #: 203

RE: Aquacraft Mini Rio - 5/21/2008 6:29:17 PM   
Nina Roses Dad


 

Posts: 136
Joined: 2/12/2008
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stinger9d9

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wheelnut
...I would say it was more possible to be a defect in the wire itself...


Now that is a possibility. If the wire had a little too much carbon in it, you may have inadvertently hardened it, and made it brittle. I have complete faith in your soldering skills, but bad wire is just that...bad.

If you try that loctite stuff from OSE, it would allow you to assemble a wire drive with no heat at all.

That way, once and for all, you could prove whether an 0.047" wire (completely unaffected by heat) is too weak or not.



Dumb question (possibly) but what would be the difference in strength between a carbon steel wire and a stainless steel one?

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RE: Aquacraft Mini Rio - 5/21/2008 9:42:20 PM   
Wheelnut



Posts: 5002
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From: Annandale, VA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stinger9d9

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wheelnut
...I would say it was more possible to be a defect in the wire itself...


Now that is a possibility. If the wire had a little too much carbon in it, you may have inadvertently hardened it, and made it brittle. I have complete faith in your soldering skills, but bad wire is just that...bad.

If you try that loctite stuff from OSE, it would allow you to assemble a wire drive with no heat at all.

That way, once and for all, you could prove whether an 0.047" wire (completely unaffected by heat) is too weak or not.


That is a great idea, but $13.75 plus shipping, that is a little high for me. I would rather upgrade the wire and drill the holes out larger.

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RE: Aquacraft Mini Rio - 5/21/2008 9:52:20 PM   
Wheelnut



Posts: 5002
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From: Annandale, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Carbon is stronger, but will rust. But I think for this application, Stainless steel is better because the tensil strengh is better and it is more elastic. So I think Stainless would work better as a prop shaft. But it will be harder to solder. So for this application the loc603 that stinger was talking about would be the easiest way to join the stainless shaft and prop shaft.
For me, I am going to try and make this simple. I like simple I have a stock prop shaft and cable assembly on the way. When it gets here, I am going to pull the cable out and use some larger wire, like .067. I am going to drill out the prop shaft and the coupler and solder the wire in the prop shaft and test it out.

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RE: Aquacraft Mini Rio - 5/21/2008 10:16:37 PM   
Nina Roses Dad


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sussur

Ey guys,


has anyone tried running the Mini Rio with 8.4V 1100mAh 2/3A NiMH battery? can the stock ESC handle the extra volts?

Thanks

Richard

I'm thinking of ordering up a 7-cell, sticking it in a Reef Racer, and having it surf waves at the beach.

Then I'll try it in the MR (with the water cooling coil) just for the heck of it and let you guys know the runtime

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RE: Aquacraft Mini Rio - 5/22/2008 5:58:24 AM   
sussur


 

Posts: 3
Joined: 3/14/2008
From: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Status: offline 		Hey guys,

I just tested my MR with the the 7 cell batt.. heck... its like on sterionds! the 7 cell batt will fit the MR in a diagonal position. I ran it for 2mins just easing on the throttle... Then tried giving it a burst max power.. it ran really fast probably 15 - 20% faster and it planes instantly. Although I notice the servo vibrating in the neutral position... anyway I will do some more testing and probably make a batt pack similar setup to the stock one to balance the COG.

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RE: Aquacraft Mini Rio - 5/22/2008 9:42:10 PM   
Nina Roses Dad


 

Posts: 136
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sussur

Hey guys,

I just tested my MR with the the 7 cell batt.. heck... its like on sterionds! the 7 cell batt will fit the MR in a diagonal position. I ran it for 2mins just easing on the throttle... Then tried giving it a burst max power.. it ran really fast probably 15 - 20% faster and it planes instantly. Although I notice the servo vibrating in the neutral position... anyway I will do some more testing and probably make a batt pack similar setup to the stock one to balance the COG.


Thanks for that info. Was the runtime a lot shorter than w/the stock pack? After I put in a cooling coil I'm going to try the 7-cell pack in the config. in this photo.

It might work better for the COG and getting on plane and I can put more weight on one side to offset the torque roll I'd have with the extra power due to the extra cell. Maybe the cells will run cooler since they're split up and sitting directly on the bottom of the hull.

Our pond is huge, so you pretty much have the throttle wide open all the time.

Try my diode trick a few posts back and it should help the quivering of the steering servo.

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< Message edited by Nina Roses Dad -- 5/22/2008 9:51:10 PM >

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RE: Aquacraft Mini Rio - 5/22/2008 10:31:20 PM   
Wheelnut



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From: Annandale, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Do not use the stock battery with any type of motor upgrades with out upgrading the wires on the pack. Here is what happened when I ran it with my AMMO brushless motor.


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RE: Aquacraft Mini Rio - 5/23/2008 12:11:54 AM   
Nina Roses Dad


 

Posts: 136
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wheelnut

Do not use the stock battery with any type of motor upgrades with out upgrading the wires on the pack. Here is what happened when I ran it with my AMMO brushless motor.




Yeah, they look like 22ga. good for 5 or 6 amps.

I think the pins in the Tamiya connectors are only rated for 8 amps. If you are going to change the battery leads, change those out too

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RE: Aquacraft Mini Rio - 5/23/2008 1:19:17 AM   
Wheelnut



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From: Annandale, VA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nina Roses Dad


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wheelnut

Do not use the stock battery with any type of motor upgrades with out upgrading the wires on the pack. Here is what happened when I ran it with my AMMO brushless motor.




Yeah, they look like 22ga. good for 5 or 6 amps.

I think the pins in the Tamiya connectors are only rated for 8 amps. If you are going to change the battery leads, change those out too


I was running deans. I should have known to change the wires also

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RE: Aquacraft Mini Rio - 5/25/2008 9:57:35 PM   
Chuck E. Cheese


 

Posts: 25
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: , HI, USA
Status: offline 		why dont you guys set it up with .098 flexshaft and the stock mini rio prop shaft. just unwrap one wind of the flexshaft and solder it on. this way no liner is needed and it keeps the water out. mine runs a ammo 24-45-2900, 30amp esc, .098 flexshaft, 34mm prop and 3 cell lipo. i used a homemade motormount to mount the motor and got 3 wraps of cooling around it. estamated speed in the low 30's (about as fast as a stock super-vee) and runs well. the only adjustments are prop shaft (stinger) down a hair and weight in the center. i recomend using this flexshaft setup in all mini-rio's (even stock). just drill the stock coupler or use a 2.4mm and solder both ends. you will never buy a shaft again.... oh yeah, when running this fast it is necessary to remove one rudder to get less drag and proper ride angle and height.
i have built 2 this was and they work.

PS: deagio, dig the rudders! how much? (you can sell me the ones from the Hawaii boat, i won't tell)


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