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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> S.P.A.D. Aircraft - Coroplast design >> RE: Delta
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RE: Delta - 2/24/2008 1:42:01 PM   
Villa



Posts: 860
Joined: 8/12/2003
From: Wilson, NC,
Status: offline 		Hi mclina
That first takeoff will be a challenge. I learned to fly in the winter in PA. Eight inches of snow makes a good cushin for a bad landing. I would welcome the snow for the first test.

(in reply to mclina)
       Post #: 26

RE: Delta - 2/25/2008 1:35:48 AM   
mustangman177


 

Posts: 266
Joined: 8/21/2002
From: Cisne, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Has anyone put a set of main wheels on the cororoo and a steerable nose wheel ? It wouldn't be hard to do.

I too am aprehensive about hand launching a screaming .46 OS AX with tuned pipe. With the landing gear, it would be in more control until speed was built up for takeoff, and once trimmed out and flight characteristics learned, the gear could be taken off if desired for hand launching. Just thinking out loud here.

What should the cororoo weigh in at ? Mine is 4 lb. 14 ounce total weight.


Cary

(in reply to Villa)
       Post #: 27

RE: Delta - 2/25/2008 2:06:00 AM   
xray328


 

Posts: 561
Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Shorewood, IL, USA
Status: offline 		I'm hoping for a little over 3#. I'm at 85% with a coro fuse.

I think adding gear would fatten the plane up a bit too much. It's supposed to be a flat wing and then you'd be adding landing gear hanging down there creating all that drag.

I'm building this plane for all out speed , so I'd rather take the chance tossing it.

Just make sure you're CG is dead on, and you should be fine. Once you get the trim worked out, the launch will be easy. It'll just takes a firm underhand toss if it's like the sickle.

The other thing about gear is that this will be landing pretty fast I'd imagine, and I don't want to bounce it in.

I'm used to making a low sweeping approach, and with the sickle I couldn't do that. It got really tough to control at low speeds. I had to come in low and fast and just chop the throttle into the grass.

My biggest concern is the size of this thing. I'm at 30" wingspan. How fast will that be out of sight at 100mph?

(in reply to mustangman177)
       Post #: 28

RE: Delta - 2/25/2008 1:58:46 PM   
mustangman177


 

Posts: 266
Joined: 8/21/2002
From: Cisne, IL, USA
Status: offline 		at 30" wingspan going 100+ MPH, DON'T BLINK !!! or it will be out of sight. I built mine to the 36" wingspan as per plans, so mine is heavier at 4lb 14 oz. with OS 46 AX.

I'm use to hand launching the PBF's with OS .25 FX, and they hand launch fine. This looks like more of a challenge to hand launch though. I suppose a quick underhand hand launch is achievable.

I would like to see a video though of someone hand lauching the cororoo, it would give me an idea of what to expect.

Cary

(in reply to xray328)
       Post #: 29

RE: Delta - 2/26/2008 12:13:39 AM   
xray328


 

Posts: 561
Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Shorewood, IL, USA
Status: offline 		http://www.spadcombat.co.uk/spad/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=182&func=select&id=15

A few videos in there, the first one shows the hand launch.

How did you get the 36" wingspan? The 36" wingspan made mine too long to fit on one piece of 2' x4' coro. I'm guessing you have 4x4 or 4x8 pieces?

I wish I could get 4'x4' pieces shipped economically.

I'm assuming that would be really expensive? I usually get the 2x4 pieces for that reason.

(in reply to mustangman177)
       Post #: 30

RE: Delta - 2/26/2008 2:07:57 PM   
mustangman177


 

Posts: 266
Joined: 8/21/2002
From: Cisne, IL, USA
Status: offline 		xray:

I had to splice a 3" section at the end of a 2' x 4' 2 mm. sheet to get the 36" width. I know you said in a previous post this might make it less stiff, but I took the chance.

the 4 mm. internal core is one piece though (acquired a 4' x 8' sheet through a local sign shop), and glued the 2mm outer pieces with splice to this. The sign shop couldn't get 2mm 4'x 8' sheets.


cary

< Message edited by mustangman177 -- 2/26/2008 2:34:07 PM >

(in reply to xray328)
       Post #: 31

RE: Delta - 2/26/2008 6:33:01 PM   
mclina


 

Posts: 682
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Westford, MA, USA
Status: offline 		Today looked like the best weather day I was gonna get for a while, so I took this thing to the field at lunchtime. There was still about 4" of snow on the ground, it was about 35 degrees and dead calm.

Three times I gave the thing a firm underhand toss at full throttle, and three times it made about a 50' arc right back into the ground. At no time did it feel at all like it wanted to fly. It didn't seem to respond to the elevator at all, and I never really had time to give it any aileron input. At full throttle, it felt like it wanted to pull out of my hand, but it didn't want to climb after I let it go.

So, what do you think? Could it be nose heavy? Is it just underpowered? Could it have been my launch technique? It is balanced at right around 10" back from the front of the fuselage.

And the snow probably did save me one prop. I broke two on the three launch attempts. Other than that, there was no damage.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

_____________________________

If all of your friends were named Cliff, would you jump off them? - Hugh Neutron

(in reply to mustangman177)
       Post #: 32

RE: Delta - 2/26/2008 9:50:24 PM   
Villa



Posts: 860
Joined: 8/12/2003
From: Wilson, NC,
Status: offline 		Hi mclina
You state "50' arc right back into the ground". Is this an inside loop? If yes, my guess is tail heavy. If there seemed to be plenty of engine power, you might try less throttle next time to give a little more time for correction. Maybe a click or two of down elevator. If it is an inside loop, you might consider having someone with you. I have no experience with a delta.

(in reply to mclina)
       Post #: 33

RE: Delta - 2/26/2008 10:44:22 PM   
mclina


 

Posts: 682
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Westford, MA, USA
Status: offline 		No, it wasn't a loop. It just went up a little bit, then nosed into the ground about 50' from me. If I had thrown it without the engine running, it would probably have done about the same thing.

The CG is forward of that was called for on the Cororoo plan, by about 1/2", maybe closer to 1".

I have hand launched my combat SPAD, which weighed the same, and used the same engine, and it climbs like crazy. There must be a trick to getting a flat wing to fly. Perhaps it is just way underpowered, like I was told by GreenSpeed way back in Post #4 .

< Message edited by mclina -- 2/26/2008 10:46:08 PM >

_____________________________

If all of your friends were named Cliff, would you jump off them? - Hugh Neutron

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       Post #: 34

RE: Delta - 2/26/2008 11:01:00 PM   
xray328


 

Posts: 561
Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Shorewood, IL, USA
Status: offline 		I'd suggest getting a buddy to give it a good firm toss. Maybe the engine doesn't have enough power to get it to flying speed. My sickle was like that on a .25FP, it would really struggle to get up, but then once it was in the air it flew ok (just barely). At least that could help rule out the design or CG as the problem.

What diameter prop are you using? Maybe increase the diameter/reduce the pitch?

How much throw did you have in the elevon?

Maybe reflex the elevons?

What was the final weight?

(in reply to mclina)
       Post #: 35

RE: Delta - 2/26/2008 11:42:01 PM   
mclina


 

Posts: 682
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Westford, MA, USA
Status: offline 		My dry weight was 48 ounces. The first prop I broke was a 9x6 and the second was a 9x5. The elevon throw was about 3/4" in each direction.

_____________________________

If all of your friends were named Cliff, would you jump off them? - Hugh Neutron

(in reply to xray328)
       Post #: 36

RE: Delta - 2/27/2008 2:03:35 AM   
xray328


 

Posts: 561
Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Shorewood, IL, USA
Status: offline 		6 oz tank? So wet you were around 54 oz?

How about trying a 10x5 prop? That FX can handle it.

You need as much "umph" out of the hole as you can get.

(in reply to mclina)
       Post #: 37

RE: Delta - 2/27/2008 2:24:03 AM   
microsprint9



Posts: 386
Joined: 11/20/2004
From: london, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Something must be wrong with either your engine or the CG, my 36" span delta weighs 42oz dry, has a 4oz tank and flies great on a Magnum .15XLS with a 8x3 prop, in the second pic you can see a pc. of coro glued to the bottom, this saves the prop on landing and gives you somewhere to hold on to for a good launch, my friend has one almost exactly the same as mine but the span is only 32" and it easily gets in the air with a slight underhand toss.

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(in reply to xray328)
       Post #: 38

RE: Delta - 2/27/2008 2:27:38 AM   
microsprint9



Posts: 386
Joined: 11/20/2004
From: london, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mclina

No, it wasn't a loop. It just went up a little bit, then nosed into the ground about 50' from me. If I had thrown it without the engine running, it would probably have done about the same thing.




Dumb question, the prop is on the right way, right ? and it's not a pusher prop ?


< Message edited by microsprint9 -- 2/27/2008 2:28:22 AM >

(in reply to mclina)
       Post #: 39

RE: Delta - <