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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/25/2008 1:42 AM   
{GBI}Harryball



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Hey Ken, this thread was started by Darin and he asked a question to the customers of redcat. I do not think its a support issue. The link you posted didnt list any rules about slander, what do you think about the above post?

< Message edited by RCKen -- 2/25/2008 1:52 AM >


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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/25/2008 1:51 AM   
RCKen



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quote:

ORIGINAL: {GBI}Harryball
Hey Ken, this thread was started by Darin and he asked a question to the customers of redcat. I do not think its a support issue. The link you posted didnt list any rules about slander, what do you think about the above post?


Yes, I am absolutely aware that Darin started this thread. I have read the entire thread and I made my post because there are members earlier in this thread that were acting as if they are "official" spokesmen for Redcat. I posted as a reminder who the official voices for Redcat are in this thread. These members have been designated by Darin to provide support for Redcat in this Support Forum.

I am going to remind everybody one last time to stop the personal attacks on each other as they are inappropriate for this forum. I am cleaning the earlier posts that don't need to be here.

Ken

< Message edited by RCKen -- 2/25/2008 1:52 AM >

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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/25/2008 1:59 AM   
{GBI}Harryball



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Status: offline 		Thanks Ken,

Hey RedHarris,

Nice finds, I was also looking around at the others. The mugen and the cane will look alot like one another after this upgrade. I think the cane will be a good race contender.


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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/25/2008 2:04 AM   
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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/25/2008 2:08 AM   
{GBI}Harryball



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quote:

ORIGINAL: pede_kid

Yeah, definitely a race ready buggy with a legal engine.


Yea i think a perfect mill would be the sts .21 dragon. How bout you


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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/25/2008 3:04 AM   
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Status: offline 		from what i have heard about whats going on, sts doesnt sound like a good way to go, a few of their main suppliers here in the US are gone.

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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/25/2008 3:28 AM   
ehroof


 

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ORIGINAL: Redharris

Ok.. I did some research, (prowling online and paging through my RC mags.).
I looked at 4WD Buggies AND truggies. I did not look at Electrics or Road cars(cuz I dont know Crap about THEM .

The TOP of the LINE NITRO racers [Kyosho STRR(truggy), Associated RC8(buggy), O'Donnel Z01-B(buggy), OFNA HoBao 8.5(truggy), JamminX2-CRT(truggy)] all have King Pin style suspensions. These are expensive cars, going for approximately $500 to $700, or more.

The Mid level racers [Thunder TigerST-1 Pro, VTX-B1R(buggy), VTX-ST1R(truggy),Horizon Hobbies GS XUT Pro (truggy), GS CL-1 Pro(buggy)] and others are PBS suspensions. These cars are going for $300-$500 and less.

If You look in Magazine advertisments and Reviews (for top of the line cars) and especially the PRO RACE coverage, you will see that King Pin Suspensions are preferred. I would say that this Validates Ehroofs statement that HARDCORE racers prefer King Pin style suspensions.

There ARE exceptions to this rule(so dont bust my chops!). The Mugen Seiki MBX5R(buggy), Mugen Seiki MBX5T(truggy) are PBS suspensions and are listed in the EXPENSIVE category. I'm sure there are others too.

I define HARDCORE racers as fully Sponsored drivers with a Full Ride from the Factory, OR, those very competitive Club Racers who have to have THE BEST equipment.
A lot of us Here are BUDGET racers.(I know I am ). Redcat falls into the Mid Level racer category(look at the $$$), so I think we can expect Darrin to go with the PBS suspension. Looks like it is already in the works! If you have Gripes about the PBS suspension, NOW is the time to air them out. Constructive criticism is the order of the day! Vnmsgt 's idea to secure the tie rod ends with washers n screws is a Good idea! Keep em comming.....



thanks for the infomation bro

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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/25/2008 4:38 AM   
Redharris



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Status: offline 		You're welcome.....I actually LIKE reading about and looking at all those cars that I cant afford right now...Heh,heh...
Lol,,Must be something Wrong with me!

They could always sell em as RTM's. That way, we could put any engine we like in em.

Out here at my local track. I gotta race my Truggy with the Monster trucks, cuz there arent enough Truggy guys to make a seperate class. So its kind of a Free For All on race day. I know that ROAR legal engines are .21's, but im not sure Exactly what that means or how Important it is. I doesnt affect me right now cuz im in sort of an Open class, but I'm thinkin on getting a Hurricane an joinin the crowd, so can someone explain this ROAR thing?


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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/25/2008 4:41 AM   
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Status: offline 		.21 roar legal engine, the monsoon comes with a .28 and the hurricane too.

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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/25/2008 4:42 AM   
{GBI}Harryball



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quote:

ORIGINAL: ehroof

from what i have heard about whats going on, sts doesnt sound like a good way to go, a few of their main suppliers here in the US are gone.


LMAO Of course.


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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/25/2008 5:04 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Redharris

You're welcome.....I actually LIKE reading about and looking at all those cars that I cant afford right now...Heh,heh...
Lol,,Must be something Wrong with me!

They could always sell em as RTM's. That way, we could put any engine we like in em.

Out here at my local track. I gotta race my Truggy with the Monster trucks, cuz there arent enough Truggy guys to make a seperate class. So its kind of a Free For All on race day. I know that ROAR legal engines are .21's, but im not sure Exactly what that means or how Important it is. I doesnt affect me right now cuz im in sort of an Open class, but I'm thinkin on getting a Hurricane an joinin the crowd, so can someone explain this ROAR thing?



join the club Rich...I been thinking of my next purchase...was thinking monsoon...but yanno...them rtm's hopefully will be here at the end of next month...I been practicing and thinkin racing...lol..gotta drive 80 miles one way to run..but heck its only money...lol..so just may be another hurricane and keep my current one fer bashing

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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/25/2008 5:05 AM   
ehroof


 

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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/25/2008 5:07 AM   
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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/25/2008 8:17 AM   
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Status: offline 		Lots of great Ideas out there!! Darin, the first question that I would have is who are you marketing the new Hurricane to? If it is pure competition for hardcore racers, go with the wicked carbon fiber and beefed up suspension and servo combo. Hardcore racers will not mind shelling out the money for the latest technology. However, with that said, a great majority of the populous are not hard core racers. (though even I have had dilusions of grandeur from time to time..lol) I like the idea of optional upgrades to make the Hurrican as competative as the individuals would like to be . This is what attracts buyers to a particular rc brand. A great looking car with readily avalible parts and plenty of hop-ups for the seriuos racers!!! It may be a broad spectrum approach, but that way, in a sense, you really do please everyone on whatever level they choose to be on. Hextype screws would greatly help as well!!! I would listen to the dealers like ehroof very closely. They interact with the gambit of people in this hobby on and offline and KNOW what they are talking about!! That's my dime!!! Thanks for listening.

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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/25/2008 8:35 AM   
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Status: offline 		Good post rhemmyj .
Carbon Fiber makes me Drool!
I dont really have a problem with the Phillips head screws, but Hex screws Would be a welcome addition.
In particular, I would like to see a Stainless Steel screw kit made available.

Im just Guessin here, but I think the ALUMINUM arms are made out of aluminum because it is a Typical material used for PROTOTYPING. Darin was talkin about the "moulds for the Plastic taking awhile" so I'm thinking we should be expecting to see Plastic parts.


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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/25/2008 9:45 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Redharris

Ok.. I did some research, (prowling online and paging through my RC mags.).
I looked at 4WD Buggies AND truggies. I did not look at Electrics or Road cars(cuz I dont know Crap about THEM .

The TOP of the LINE NITRO racers [Kyosho STRR(truggy), Associated RC8(buggy), O'Donnel Z01-B(buggy), OFNA HoBao 8.5(truggy), JamminX2-CRT(truggy)] all have King Pin style suspensions. These are expensive cars, going for approximately $500 to $700, or more.



Thats where you are incorrect. A kingpin suspension consists of an upper ball joint and a lower ball joint.

C-Hub is basically a hinge and generally has 1 or 2 bolts holding it to the C-Hub. With that benefit, it can not get loose... unlike kingpin because of the 2 ball joints.

The included pic is of a C-Hub assembly... not kingpin... the 2nd pic shows what kingpin is.

Now with this being said... and shown, you can see its also easier and faster to make repairs to a PBS suspension when compared to C-Hub.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


< Message edited by Kemo -- 2/25/2008 9:52 AM >

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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/25/2008 5:32 PM   
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Thats where you are incorrect. A kingpin suspension consists of an upper ball joint and a lower ball joint.

C-Hub is basically a hinge and generally has 1 or 2 bolts holding it to the C-Hub. With that benefit, it can not get loose... unlike kingpin because of the 2 ball joints.

The included pic is of a C-Hub assembly... not kingpin... the 2nd pic shows what kingpin is.

Now with this being said... and shown, you can see its also easier and faster to make repairs to a PBS suspension when compared to C-Hub.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize Click to see fullsize image.


Exaclty what I said but in PICS! LOL well almost except for the easier to work on which it would definetly be.

quote:

I still always thought Kingpin C-Hub were different. My view of them are that on the Kingpin style the A-arm is bolted direclty to the knuckle on top of it and bottom and therefore when your a-arm hingpin mounts or arm hinge pin holes wear some you get a whole lot more play in the front end because the arms being bolted to the knuckle ball joint allows them to move side to side more. It did on my monsoon.

In the C-Hub design the A-arms are bolts the the Knuckle carrier and not the knuckle itself therefore when you hing pin mounts or arm hinge pin holes wear some you do not have the play in the front end as much because the Knuckle carrier will not move because it is not secured to the arms with a ball joint.



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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/25/2008 8:09 PM   
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Status: offline 		WOAH thats alot of bickering and all I have to say is, I have no opinion here at all because I have never had a problem with the suspension on any of my cars unless it was due to driver error. As for PBS Make it an option that way you can have the one you choose to have

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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/25/2008 9:06 PM   
AllAboutFunHobbies



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Status: offline 		i'm with blue, this thread has become a complete waste of space. instead of everyone giving there opionon on what they like and don't like so darin can make an informed decision, but no a couple have to keep arguing over what is better and what is what. get to the point now we have a picture of what they look like and what the differences are, leave it at that and let people look at them and form an opinion or give there experiances with the two styles. frankly I personally like both, they both have there ups and downs. instead of making a seperrate buggy with this suspension make it an affordable upgrade option. the die hards will buy it and the bashers won't simple as that. i 'm also with dennis as a dealer I don't think there is a need for yet another hurricane buggy. As for the debate which is better blah blah blah, kyosho, offna and some of the other big names are set up exactally like the hurricane and the parts are identical. I don't even stock offna or kyoso buggy parts because they hurricane parts interchange and are made the same, axle diff gears are a little different so I stock those, every thing else is the same. so I think the hurricane is perfect the way it is, just my two cents.

oh. P.S. just fix the steering servo, lol, just idding.

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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/25/2008 10:05 PM   
Kemo



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quote:

ORIGINAL: vnmsgt


quote:

Thats where you are incorrect. A kingpin suspension consists of an upper ball joint and a lower ball joint.

C-Hub is basically a hinge and generally has 1 or 2 bolts holding it to the C-Hub. With that benefit, it can not get loose... unlike kingpin because of the 2 ball joints.

The included pic is of a C-Hub assembly... not kingpin... the 2nd pic shows what kingpin is.

Now with this being said... and shown, you can see its also easier and faster to make repairs to a PBS suspension when compared to C-Hub.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize Click to see fullsize image.


Exaclty what I said but in PICS! LOL well almost except for the easier to work on which it would definetly be.

quote:

I still always thought Kingpin C-Hub were different. My view of them are that on the Kingpin style the A-arm is bolted direclty to the knuckle on top of it and bottom and therefore when your a-arm hingpin mounts or arm hinge pin holes wear some you get a whole lot more play in the front end because the arms being bolted to the knuckle ball joint allows them to move side to side more. It did on my monsoon.

In the C-Hub design the A-arms are bolts the the Knuckle carrier and not the knuckle itself therefore when you hing pin mounts or arm hinge pin holes wear some you do not have the play in the front end as much because the Knuckle carrier will not move because it is not secured to the arms with a ball joint.





I was confirming pretty much what you were saying... Someone else made a incorrect statement and assumed that C-Hub was a kingpin design. because if they want to say that, then why dont they say PBS is kingpin??? Just take the balljoints and lay them horizontal... EXCEPT, in this case, they use bigger pillow balls and a tight steering knuckle to prevent any looseness.

< Message edited by Kemo -- 2/25/2008 10:07 PM >

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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/27/2008 5:28 AM   
Redharris



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Status: offline 		The (2page)advertisement for the ASSOCIATED RC8 Factory Team 1/8 Nitro Buggy in the Feb 08 issue of RC Car Action Magazine specifically states that it is a "True-Lock King Pin System". Buy it. Read it.
I will check to see if I was Mistaken about the others, but they looked very similar to me. It is Beside the point anyway. It is Very apparent that the PBS system is Primarily(with some exceptions) used on the Mid Priced Racers, Not the Top of the Liners.
Let me make myself Clear. I Never said that the PBS suspension was inferior in any way.
It seemed to me that arguments were being made(incorrectly, IMHO), that PBS was the Preferred set up for Racing. That is Incorrect(at least at this point in time).

Call it King Pin or C Hub (I concede they are 2 different things), they are still FAR MORE popularly used by the Manufacturers when it comes to producing High End / Factory Racers.(At least as far as off road Nitro is concerned.)

P.S. All About Fun is Right! Enough with the "Back N Forth". If we can improve the design that Darin is going with, thats what we should be doing......

< Message edited by Redharris -- 2/27/2008 5:37 AM >


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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/27/2008 7:56 AM   
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Call it King Pin or C Hub (I concede they are 2 different things), they are still FAR MORE popularly used by the Manufacturers when it comes to producing High End / Factory Racers.(At least as far as off road Nitro is concerned.)


A good majority of the drivers are running the PBS conversions that are available to them. that is Hyper 8, MBX-5, and the jammin buggies. PBS is also the newest to 1/8 buggy. You'll be seeing more of it in the near future.

Darin is takin a huge step in the right direction!

< Message edited by Kemo -- 2/27/2008 7:57 AM >

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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/27/2008 8:43 AM   
Redharris



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Status: offline 		1.) Show me Pictures of these cars in the winners Circle.
2.) I agree that Darin is doing a great job.
3.) I NEVER said there was ANYTHING wrong with PBS suspension.
4.) If you would read my earlier post, KEMO, you would see that I actually DEFENDED its Sturdiness.

One last thing. I would appreciate you NOT calling me a Retard if you ever PM me again.
We dont wanna get PERSONAL here. Am I Right RC Ken?......


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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/27/2008 8:53 AM   
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Status: offline 		my opinion is not everyone buys these cars to race them, so if the PBS system is used more for racing purposes it should be a upgrade not something that comes stock.

what kind of man PM's someone to call them a retard? thats real mature.

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RE: Early stages of new Hurricane Thoughts? - 2/27/2008 3:41 PM   
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Status: offline 		Like I mentioned before the regular hurricane could stay the way it is and make the PRO model with the PBS minus all that heavy aluminum. Everyone can be happy then. If you want to bash=hurricane, If you want to race=Hurricane Pro with PBS!

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