Zlin EP - What is the CG? (Full Version)

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mtstopa -> Zlin EP - What is the CG? (2/24/2008 2:01:13 AM)

I have a Zlin EP - the website and the directions provide the following information but does NOT give the designed CG location. I have emailed multiple times and called, but no one has been able to provide me with the information. PLEASE HELP - I would rather not 'guess' as to the CG location.

Specifications:
Wing Span : 40 in / 1016 mm
Wing Area : 430 sq in / 28 sq.dm
Flying Weight : 45oz / 1300g
Fuselage Length : 31 in / 800 mm

Requirements:
Li - poly : 11.1V ; 1800-2200mah ; Propeller :9"x 6" ;
Out ranner Brushless Motor : 450T Speed ; Control:45AMP.




nitrostaff1 -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (2/26/2008 6:13:16 AM)

I'll get back to you on this one. It's not on the manual. Contacted the manufacturer.

John
Nitro Planes



nitrostaff1 -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (2/27/2008 11:13:13 AM)

CG is is 58mm/2.28in from leading edge.

John
Nitro Planes
quote:

ORIGINAL: mtstopa

I have a Zlin EP - the website and the directions provide the following information but does NOT give the designed CG location. I have emailed multiple times and called, but no one has been able to provide me with the information. PLEASE HELP - I would rather not 'guess' as to the CG location.

Specifications:
Wing Span : 40 in / 1016 mm
Wing Area : 430 sq in / 28 sq.dm
Flying Weight : 45oz / 1300g
Fuselage Length : 31 in / 800 mm

Requirements:
Li - poly : 11.1V ; 1800-2200mah ; Propeller :9"x 6" ;
Out ranner Brushless Motor : 450T Speed ; Control:45AMP.






mtstopa -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (2/27/2008 12:56:59 PM)

Thanks for the information - I had attempted to figure out the appropriate CG using a couple of different CG Calculators/Formulas. What I came up with was close to that, though if I had used that CG I would have likely been a few mm nose heavy (not necessarily a bad thing).

While on the subject of the Zlin - the manual says that the flying weight is 45 OZ - that is WAY off. Mine, completed, is 21.2 oz (w/o battery) and 27.25 oz with a 3S 2250 mAh lipo.

You might want to consider updating the website and including a correction with the model. I would guess that most people would appreciate having the correct information as they plan for what power to install. I found it a little confusing as the motor mount restrict your brushless motor selection to no more than 29 mm in diameter - making it nearly impossible to have sufficient power if your figuring on a 45 oz plane. Even at 27.25 oz it is difficult to find sufficient power for the aerobatics the plane is capable of.



Evgeny-arm -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (3/10/2008 8:51:33 PM)

First time I bought model not having the information that I buy. On a site except for two muffled pictures which do not speak about a design, anything is not present. When there has arrived the plane I simply long looked and very long thought, looking at contents of a box and could not understand in any way where it is possible to put in this design 45 oz. Weight of my plane assembled, but without the motor and the equipment and aerodynamic panels of wheels = 360 gram 12,7 oz. I think that 23 oz the weight for flight will turn out. Thanks for a question and the answer here about finding CG.
****************************************************************
I for the first time see such attitude to that that sell. The plane is very well made. The first plane from Nitro Planes which has given me pleasure from the small list before bought at this seller. Bought the plane being guided absolutely on other purposes (characteristics data on a site which and Have brought to a choice are guilty). I search for the plane for conversion on OC 30-FS. This model does not approach for this purpose. But it is fine for электро as well as was projected.
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Beautiful, interesting model. I can be mistaken, but if the seller has told more about this model, interest of buyers would be high.
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I have Zlin Z-50 Engine 46~52 - 56 " and it is made much worse and not accurately in difference from this kid.



Evgeny-arm -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (3/12/2008 3:11:10 AM)

The happiness has terminated. I had so much pleasures from purchase of the plane. I have forgotten disappointments from unsuccessful purchases of models at Nitro Planes. The happiness has terminated when has begun installation of the equipment (look a photo). At pushing through of the extension piece of a cord, it has not gone. Has opened a side panel and to me it became brutally bad. As so it is possible to hate the buyers to scoff at them. It is More at Nitro Planes I shall never buy. It that I now should open all side panel? [:(] [>:] [:(]



mtstopa -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (3/12/2008 3:42:42 AM)

I had the same problem trying to get the servo wires throught he wing. Ultimately, it was a fairly easy fix to cut an access opening, run the wires and then glue back in position. While an easy fix, it is a really stupid design flaw. In addition, thy must know of it by now and coul quite easily give a headsup to buyers that they will encounter the problem and how to fix it. I spent an unreasonable amount of time trying to get teh wires through until I realized it was their error.

I was able to open the area immediately forward of the access hole, an area that stays hidden when the wing is installed.

I have a fleet which includes a number of Nitro Planes - I am learning there are no perfect manufacturers - every model presents it own challenges.

While I am on my soap box, the motor mount so seriously restrcits the size of the motor (no more than 28 or 29 mm diameter) that it is difficult to power it properly so that I can take advantage of its aerobatic potential.



Evgeny-arm -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (3/12/2008 4:06:03 AM)

I have certainly found a way of elimination of a problem for 20 minutes. But I wanted accurate model on which pleasantly to look as with Outside and inside. Here two photos which speak as well as by means of what I have found a way out.
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What motor and as I have established, I shall tell hardly later, yet has not completed. But it was necessary to alter to another. I have planes of other manufacturers, I receive positive emotions, and here disappointments.



mtstopa -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (3/13/2008 12:48:55 AM)

I was able to get access with one rectangular access - then I glued backer blocks to the inside and glued the panel back over the opening - you canhardly tell that the hole was made.

Good luck with your model.

What did you put in it for motor?



Evgeny-arm -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (3/13/2008 1:30:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mtstopa
What did you put in it for motor?

Hello.
As well as promised the decision of a problem in installations of the motor on a photo. You understand I solved two problems.
1) installation of the convenient motor.
2) comfortable adjustment CG.
(Still glue has not dried out)
-----------------------------------------------------
But to calm down early early. There is a suspicion that the wing has wrong installation of a corner (attack).
*************************************
The model is pleasant. If not such children's mistakes, I would be very happy with this purchase. We shall look as it will fly. As we shall look what illnesses and surprises still to us the manufacturer has presented.



mtstopa -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (3/13/2008 3:13:59 AM)

That is exactly what I was planning to do - I had an Exceed RC Alpha 480 brushless in but it barely powers enough to make it a scale flyer - aerobatics would be out of the question. i think I will follow your lead and transform the motor mount.

Thanks for the photos.



Evgeny-arm -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (3/13/2008 4:33:44 AM)

My motor gives on the ground thrust of 800 gram. If it will be a little I shall put other motor.
In the long term very much I wish to test this motor if I shall feel that my motor does not consult. -
Venom V28 1200kV Out-Runner Brushless Motor

[image]http://www.horizonhobby.com/ProdInfo/VNR/450/VNRF8035-450.jpg[/image]



opjose -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (3/13/2008 4:35:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Evgeny-arm

The happiness has terminated. I had so much pleasures from purchase of the plane. I have forgotten disappointments from unsuccessful purchases of models at Nitro Planes. The happiness has terminated when has begun installation of the equipment (look a photo). At pushing through of the extension piece of a cord, it has not gone. Has opened a side panel and to me it became brutally bad. As so it is possible to hate the buyers to scoff at them. It is More at Nitro Planes I shall never buy. It that I now should open all side panel? [:(] [>:] [:(]


This is hardly a problem with the plane, and more a problem with an inexperienced builder.

You can use a pin to temporarily remove the connector pin inserts, pass the cable through, then place the connector pins back into the socket.

This is trivial.

You could have also merely resized the circular cutout a bit to avoid having to cut a hole into the wing.

This is not a problem.




Evgeny-arm -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (3/13/2008 4:43:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: opjose

This is hardly a problem with the plane, and more a problem with an inexperienced builder.




I agree that so it was possible to make. But I did not represent why have occured such problem yet have not opened wings. Till this moment I did not meet problems with models from GP and E-Flite. There all passes easily without what or problems.



Evgeny-arm -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (3/13/2008 5:01:03 AM)

If there is what that features of assembly, the manufacturer should warn of it in the instruction.
Or I in am wrong?
It also distinguishes manufacturers - not only reasonableness of a design, but also convenience of assembly and the more so support in the form of the good and full instruction.
But the model in the rest is made well. Probably there will be what that moments still. But at me in Russia production of China has simply filled all that is possible. Therefore I have got used buying models made in China to alter and expect the similar moments.
------------------------
Here therefore having bought model from good firm you understand a designation of such capacious word-combination - culture of manufacture. ********************************************************************************
As a whole the model original also is very competent decisions. I probably strongly have been disappointed hardly earlier. Therefore I do not want that people from it have refused purchase, let this топ will be the help in which have given up having given the poor-quality instruction.
**********************************************************
Here look that to me recommended to make MANUAL.
What have I made not so?????



mtstopa -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (3/13/2008 12:40:11 PM)

opjose - your solution did not occur to me - I have only built 8 planes so far and hadn't encountered that issue before.

Could'nt re-size without cutting an access - which is obviously what I ended up doing.

Thanks for the tip on the connector pin inserts.



opjose -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (3/13/2008 5:27:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Evgeny-arm

I agree that so it was possible to make. But I did not represent why have occured such problem yet have not opened wings. Till this moment I did not meet problems with models from GP and E-Flite. There all passes easily without what or problems.



GP and E-flite are irrelevant.

I've seen many smaller models with tiny holes where you need to run wires through this way.

This is something that you can encounter with many planes.

It is not a big problem.




opjose -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (3/13/2008 5:34:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Evgeny-arm

If there is what that features of assembly, the manufacturer should warn of it in the instruction.
Or I in am wrong?



The provided instructions are what they are.... bad.

Some instruction manuals are posted on the web site so you can see this for yourself.

But these are not beginners planes, so this should not be an issue to the builder.

If you cannot deal with this kind of thing I'd advise you to pay more for something from GP or E-Flite... then come back to these planes after you have gained experience building ARF's and have learned the tricks and tips.

You should attempt these models only when you reach the point that the only thing you need are the C.G. measurements, and even then you can figure this out yourself.

This is typical of all asian arfs.

The provided instructions are about equal to most other Asian ARF's.





Evgeny-arm -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (3/13/2008 9:50:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: opjose
It is not a big problem.

I with you agree.
Simply model has liked me also I did not expect such. Has bought Zlin because the prototype is pleasant to me. I the admirer of present ZLIN-50. It was the moment of the SHOCK. As the result having become puzzled I has not thought to remove the case of a socket of the extension piece (of it has thought later). Models I have tested much (basically GLOW engine, on electric I I fly three times less).
I cannot name number of models at all (more than 20 RC models) and the experience about 25 years.
--------------------------------------
In any situation always there are positive moments. And consequently I shall answer a question what to choose Nitro Planes or GP or E-Flite Russian expression-> to learn that such well, it is necessary to test that such badly. ******************************************************************************
It is not a big problem.
You are right, as the problem begins now. Corners of installation of a wing demand the big correction. The wing has a positive corner on 5 degrees. The accurate decision of this problem Is required.
*********************************************************************
P.S. And at the price of - me models equally that from Nitro Planes or GP or E-Flite manage. In fact at Nitro Planes delivery even across America is very overestimated in relation to other shops. Therefore the price is not criterion of a choice for me.



opjose -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (3/13/2008 10:26:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Evgeny-arm

You are right, as the problem begins now. Corners of installation of a wing demand the big correction. The wing has a positive corner on 5 degrees. The accurate decision of this problem Is required.



I'm sorry but I have a hard time understanding what you are trying to say in your prior post.

I realize that you are not an english speaker, and unfortunately I do not know Russian.

I do not know what you mean by "corners".

Do you mean "wing incidence"?

Or are you referring to the "wing root"? ( where the wing joins the fuselage ).







Evgeny-arm -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (3/13/2008 11:06:51 PM)

I try to communicate through the electronic translator. Therefore at me it very badly turns out. That it was clear I give a photo. Green colors an axial line of model. Red color you will see that confuses me on a wing. Installation wing on Russian technical language refers to - a corner of attack.



Evgeny-arm -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (3/13/2008 11:18:02 PM)

Probably to whom it is useful the drawing of the present plane. I have a drawing more detailed but I do not think that it so will be actual to this model.



opjose -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (3/14/2008 12:06:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evgeny-arm

I try to communicate through the electronic translator. Therefore at me it very badly turns out. That it was clear I give a photo. Green colors an axial line of model. Red color you will see that confuses me on a wing. Installation wing on Russian technical language refers to - a corner of attack.


Thank you the picture helps.

I wish I spoke Russian.

---

The wings are glued together as it appears you have already done.

At the front of the wings are either woodend ( or metal ) rods sometimes called "dowels", or a piece of hard wood.

This gets inserted into the cutout at the bottom front where the wings go.


The proper angle of the wings to the fuselage is established by the "wing saddle" and the rear wing hold-down bolts.


The "wing saddle" is where the wings contact the length of the fuselage.

Drill the mount holes in the wing and put your bolts through this hole. This will PULL the wings torwards the fuselage and establish the proper wing incidence.

When you are done you will find that it will be less than what you have in the picture.


Please try to get help from someone a bit more experienced if you can.

This kind of thing is obvious to people that have put together many almost ready to fly airplanes, but it can be very confusing to someone just starting out.

Best of luck!





Evgeny-arm -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (3/14/2008 12:25:05 AM)

Thanks for advice. Your ideas coincide with mine. Probably you have no this model, but the decision will be such as you advised. The only thing I need to not hasten as with extension pieces of wires to not receive greater cracks between a wing and a fuselage. And there where they will turn out, to make imperceptible traces of elimination of this problem.
**************************
Models should be beautiful not only during flight but also when them hold in hands.
Thanks for your patience in dialogue with me.



opjose -> RE: Zlin EP - What is the CG? (3/14/2008 12:34:01 AM)

If you are having problems getting things to line up, use the "wing saddle" as a reference.

The "wing saddle" is where the wings contact the fuselage along it's length.

Try to get a good fit between the wing and this area. A small gap is OK.

If you can get the wing to line up with the saddle area ( the curved part of the fuselage where the wing contacts it ) the incidence will be correct.



When I finish the plane I will put "wing saddle tape" on this area to seal the gaps and prevent fuel from getting in.




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