RE: More progress on my Bates SBD!  
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RE: More progress on my Bates SBD! - 8/19/2004 3:04:55 AM   
NE0



Posts: 1170
Joined: 7/30/2002
From: Newark, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah the crew is for sale, but I really don't want to split them up. They need to find another 2-man bird since I can't move the enlisted guy without the pilot. I may have another SBD builder interested, I'll let you know if I change my mind. If I don't sell the Twin 30 guns, I might just have to make a little display with the gunner ring and crewman.

For those of you who thought the intricate/delicate styrene cockpit details wouldn't hold up in flight... boy did they! Probably 50mph straight into the dirt and nothing broke in the cockpit that wasn't due to an airframe section being crushed. The entire gunner section is unscaved and still ready for action even after a head-on meeting with mother earth.

Tom

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RE: More progress on my Bates SBD! - 8/19/2004 3:33:19 AM   
Peter_OZ



Posts: 4751
Joined: 6/5/2002
From: Brisbane, , AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Mr Browning did make a good gun hehehe

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RE: More progress on my Bates SBD! - 8/19/2004 11:24:31 AM   
abufletcher



Posts: 5178
Joined: 2/13/2004
From: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Status: online 		NEO, It would be like having a little bit of history flying right along with me in the cockpit. Jeez, I'm almost tempted to try to cram those fantastic 50mm twins into the observers seat of the WWI Albatros CV I'm fantasizing about building! It could be sort of a BACK-TO-THE-FUTURE sort of deal!

I'm sure there are a lot of guys that would like a piece of your SBD just as a souvenir! If fact, it might end up getting picked cleaner than the Baron's DrI!!!

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       Post #: 453

RE: More progress on my Bates SBD! - 8/19/2004 2:38:55 PM   
Tmoth4



Posts: 1358
Joined: 3/14/2002
From: Brecksville, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Tom,

Before you sell everything off save it for awhile. You might feel different in a month or so. You should build another one, but next time select your own wood and cut it yourself. You can replace a lot of the plywood with balsa and save a lot of weight. That's what I did with my Ziroli planes. Also, put some washout in the wings. When I saw the plane in person it didn't look like there was much there. That will prevent tip stalls. You have most of the work already done. You say the cockpits are intact and it looks to me like a lot of other parts are salvagable. Go back to Steve's thread on rcscalebuilder about his B-17 and see how he rebuilt it after what looked like a total loss.

Then when the new SBD is done test fly it in it's primer, before you put all the surface detailing on. You could even leave the canopy off and cockpit out. That plane deserves to be ressurected and there's no reason it shouldn't fly well.

Don't let the vultures pick the carcass!!!

Jim

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RE: More progress on my Bates SBD! - 8/19/2004 4:02:50 PM   
Helcat



Posts: 73
Joined: 2/8/2003
From: Fairport, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Tom,
I for one agree with Tmoth4! This war bird deserves to be resurrected and FLY proudly! Don't let the birds of pry take this one away. Sit on it for a while until you get over the post mortem. You really might feel different about it.

Mike

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       Post #: 455

RE: More progress on my Bates SBD! - 8/19/2004 5:25:34 PM   
Bruno Stachel



Posts: 1096
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Edgewood, KY, USA
Status: offline 		Sorry about your loss Tom. You can remember this plane for the journey, not the destination. I hope we'll see another building thread from you. This one was fun to watch.

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       Post #: 456

RE: More progress on my Bates SBD! - 8/20/2004 1:32:44 AM   
NE0



Posts: 1170
Joined: 7/30/2002
From: Newark, OH, USA
Status: offline 		OK guys, now you can see for yourself. Here's a link to the new "EPITAPH" page on my SBD web site, which includes a 4 minute video of in-flight shots from the fateful day. Enjoy... I still do.

Tom

VIDEO PAGE:
http://www.renderwurx.com/rc/SBD/html/ready/epitaph.htm

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RE: More progress on my Bates SBD! - 8/20/2004 1:57:02 AM   
WhoDaMan


 

Posts: 2461
Joined: 12/8/2001
From: Davis, CA, USA
Status: online 		Hi Tom:
Dannnnnng, she looked like she was flying so well. I could see you hunting on level flight. Bunker hit if I ever saw one. She looked like it was hit,,,,,, what a flight good video.

Thanks, Dave R

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RE: More progress on my Bates SBD! - 8/20/2004 2:33:50 AM   
dionysusbacchus


 

Posts: 1549
Joined: 12/12/2002
From: Blue Collar TV , ND, USA
Status: offline 		I'm thinking more CG now, notice as the fuel is consumed the tail is going up and down towards the end of the flight. I flew a friends Spitfire, yea he said the CG was right on the money! I managed to save his plane with some skill and a lot of luck! How long was she in the air Tom? How much fuel was left? Or was the tank destroyed? Look at that tail before the stall, you'll see it!

To the others I have to say I'm not a vulture when someone offers to sell something and I inquire about it.

Dion

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RE: More progress on my Bates SBD! - 8/20/2004 3:50:35 AM   
SBR_RV



Posts: 839
Joined: 8/23/2003
From: mildura, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline

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RE: More progress on my Bates SBD! - 8/20/2004 5:10:37 AM   
pittsdriver



Posts: 820
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Twin Falls, ID, USA
Status: offline 		Neo, I'm curious, how much elevator throw did you have? I think it looked like it was tailheavy and that combined with an oversensitive elevator is the kiss of death for a high wingloading airplane. I put a heavy guy in the back seat of a StardusterII once to check him out in the airplane. Needless to say we were tailheavy and the flight looked a lot like the SBD. I did get us down in one piece but it was a sobering experience. Don

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RE: More progress on my Bates SBD! - 8/20/2004 5:11:05 AM   
Jimmbbo



Posts: 1179
Joined: 10/1/2003
From: Fresno, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Tom,

Thanks for the video link... Man, that HURTS, and I just watched your build...

FWIW, looks like the airplane was increasingly pitch sensitve with more flight time/fuel burn and it was slipping into the final turn (inadequate right rudder), with a fairly steep bank angle, followed by a relatively rapid roll to the left with a right rudder input... I think that combination caused the left wing to stall and the airplane to spin...

Also been wondering the last couple of days if the addition of scale-like rivets near the wing LE might trip the boundary layer at low Reynolds numbers....

Thanks again for making your maiden flight video available... hopefully we can all learn something...

Cheers!

Jim

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RE: More progress on my Bates SBD! - 8/20/2004 11:38:45 AM   
dionysusbacchus


 

Posts: 1549
Joined: 12/12/2002
From: Blue Collar TV , ND, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pittsdriver

Neo, I'm curious, how much elevator throw did you have? I think it looked like it was tailheavy and that combined with an oversensitive elevator...


quote:

FWIW, looks like the airplane was increasingly pitch sensitve with more flight time/fuel burn


When a tail heavy model is flying it's going to try and fly backward basically! You could have the elevator set at the minimum throw and it's going to be super sensitive, so really that was not the cause of the snap. Tom made some good turns before the last super sharp and steep one, it probably turned sharper than he intended to turn it because of the tail heavy condition. Once you know what a tail heavy plane feels like you'll know that you have to land immediately before another drop of that precious fuel nose weight is consumed!

Dion

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RE: More progress on my Bates SBD! - 8/20/2004 1:12:47 PM   
NE0



Posts: 1170
Joined: 7/30/2002
From: Newark, OH, USA
Status: offline 		The more I watch the video, the more I recognized what you are saying about the CG changing in flight. I also see the adverse yaw in the banks, which I didn't recognize at the time of the flight (inexperience and nerves). I had 1/3 or so fuel left in the tank after about 4-5 minutes of flight, which means I was burning it up pretty fast. And, the tank was in front of the cockpit, so the fuel consumption would definitely change the CG.

The CG checked dead on with no fuel, so I don't understand how it could have been tailheavy? Oh well, I guess I learned a lot in just a few brief minutes of flight. Add that to my list of things to remember for the next project.

Tom

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