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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 3/25/2008 6:39 AM   
Dragonshard



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From: Pontotoc, MS, USA
Status: offline 		I see all the talk about converting the kadet senior arf to a taildragger is there a build thread showing how this is done?




Dragonshard

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 5/4/2008 12:32 AM   
mowery1


 

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Status: offline 		I'm looking for the same thread!! I just purchased one and want to convert mine as well. Let me know if you find something..

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 7/8/2009 2:00 AM   
Putputter


 

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From: Shokan, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Just got a Sig Sr. Kadet ARF. For power am considering either a Magnum 0.52 of 0.70 Four Stroke. Want to fly as a putputter and do moderate aerobatics. Any recomendations or experience on either of these combos ? Also any need to or ideas on reinforcing the firewall to handle these powerplants.

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 7/10/2009 2:57 AM   
fix-n-fly


 

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Status: offline 		The Sig Sr Kadet ARF is a great flying plane, but drove me nuts trying to get it together. Metric hardware, covering that will tear if you look at it wrong and some inconsistencies in the instructions are a few of the frustrations. But the first time you get it in the air, it is all worth it because the thing will do most anything you want it to do. I had mine up last Sunday with an 8 mph wind and 100 degree heat about 150 feet up and trimmed in a little up and the darn thing thermalled for about 20 minutes! It will make you look like a better pilot than you are.

Now for the tail dragger conversion - here is the contents from an email from Bob Nelson from Sig Mfg -

Many of these modifications use an aluminum landing gear instead of the wire supplied in the kit. Our SIGRPBA273 landing gear for the Four Star 60 works well. With this you will also need a set of DU-BRO #247 axles, a tail wheel assembly (SIGSH756) and a nylon pushrod set (SIGSH568).

To mount these items you need to install plywood hard points to the bottom of the fuselage under the bulkhead at the leading edge of the wing and at the tail to bolt these assemblies to. The main gear should be mounted so that the axles are under the leading edge of the wing. For steering the tailwheel, use the nylon pushrod to connect the rudder servo directly to the steering arm on the tailwheel. Some guys also do this with a pull-pull cable linkage. -

If you don't want to go that route for a tail wheel, I seem to recall a picture on rcuniverse where someone had mounted a tail wheel assembly and to steer it, had cut a hole in the bottom of the fuselage under the elevator and put in a small servo like a Hitec 81 and with a short push rod between the servo and the tail wheel. I don't think it can get much simpler than that.

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 7/10/2009 8:39 AM   
sawdust


 

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From: Millstone, WV, USA
Status: offline 		This is the 5th season for my Kadet Senior ARF. I fly it with an OS 70 FS. It is flown very gently with only an occasional loop. It is a tail dragger and is a real hit at the field.

But this Monday I noticed the start of the rib separation that is mentioned in this thread.

I am going to open up the bottom of the wings and see just what is happening and then decide how to fix it.

I'll try to take some pictures of what I find and post them.

Todd

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 7/14/2009 5:41 AM   
mjg3


 

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Status: offline 		well i am glad someone other then myself wants to do the mag 52 kadet combo. is the instruction manual on line any where? i am just waiting to save a few more dollars the its order time!!

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 7/16/2009 7:59 AM   
TexasSkyPilot



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dragonshard

Thank's guy's.Tauri flyer what is the best way to reinforce the wing mount i'm thinking some thin or medium ca in the areas where the protrusion on the wings are and the cabin area where they mate to the airframe?



Dragonshard


There will be lite-ply where the dowels go through the bulkhead. Go around the inside of that piece with a little tri-stock and 30-minute epoxy.

I've actually flown a (kit version) Senior with a Thunder Tiger .28.......and it flew on the wing very nicely. No power for aerobatics, had to dive it to even come CLOSE to looping it! It needed more, but it was fun. Anything in the .46 2-stroke to a .62 or .72 size 4-stroke should be just fine with it. The Mag .52 is very nice. This plane is for easy flying and light fun, not speed, those motors will do all it needs. Keep your nose wheel on it for a while, you will have enough to learn to do without handling a taildragger on top of it all.

Wings that fold....well, that's a basic maneuver in building. Carl Goldberg products sells a "strip" of fiberglass cloth for that. Buy that and some polymerized aliphatic resin glue at you hobby store. Peel the covering back enough for the strip to go around the joint and some extra besides, and wrap a turn of this around it (after all the other joint-gluing together has been done). Use something like a business card to "flow" the glue smoothly over the cloth from front to back. Keep the cloth underneath pulled against the bottom. After the top dries/firms up, turn the wing over and flow it on the bottom in just the same way there. Do a couple or three coats, and if you're careful you won't even need to do much sanding at all to smooth it out. You'll need to rough it up a little before replacing the covering, but just enough to scratch the smooth shine off the glue. If you've done it right, the cloth won't even show through the glue. Easiest method I ever used. Give it a few days to dry really well before sanding and covering it!! The wing will be very, very strong. And light.

Jim

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J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC, and T.I.T.O.R. - In July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 7/19/2009 7:49 AM   
Flylow


 

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Status: offline 		Here is my taildragger conversion. Handles great. Added a block to attach the tailwheel to and operate as a pull pull off the rudder servo.

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 7/19/2009 8:32 AM   
sawdust


 

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From: Millstone, WV, USA
Status: offline 		Here are some pictures of my mod to a tail dragger.

I used a servo on a separate channel linked to the rudder channel to control the tail gear. The main is from TNT landing gear and the tail wheel gear is from Ohio Super Strut. The main gear is mounted so the bolts straddle the bulk head at the leading edge of the wing. The area where the main is bolted is beefed up on both the inside and outside.

The servo for the tail wheel is a standard Hitech 81. No need for metal gears as the springs take out the shocks.

The main gear is expensive but worth the price.

I believe that the ground handling of my Senior to be excellent.

Any questions just ask.

Note I do currently have a wing separation starting on my Senior and will post some pictures of the problem and my solution next week.

todd





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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 7/19/2009 4:43 PM   
TexasSkyPilot



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Status: offline 		Flylow, I think your tailwheel needs to be a little fatter!

Looks great.

jim

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 7/19/2009 10:35 PM   
FlyingIreland


 

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Status: offline 		I built my Kadet Senior from a kit and if I remember correctly, it came with a piece of glass cloth that you had to epoxy along the wing joint with some warm epoxy so it flowed nicely into the balsa and the cloth. Maybe they left it out of the ARF version?

I built mine as a taildragger as well. I made up some piano (music) wire main gear, mounted with wood screws and two metal brackets to a plywood reinforcement in the fuselage. I painted the piano wire with cold galvanising paint and then a glowfuel-proof clear lacquer. The tailwheel is a plastic klett one, also bolted to a plywood reinforcement in the rear of the tail. I left it to freely swivel or castor. Ground handling is not great on my bumpy grass strip. She turns left just fine, but right turns sometimes just don't work at taxi-ing speeds.
The wire landing gear took a LOT of work to make. I had to heat the wire to soften it at the corners, then bend to shape, then re-temper the wire. A bought fibreglass or aluminium main gear would probably have been easier!

I have an OS .46 FX on mine with a 12.25x 3.75 prop and it has plenty of power. I can do loops and rolls and she can fly inverted. Not bad for a 3 channel!

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 7/19/2009 11:35 PM   
TexasSkyPilot



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Status: offline 		Most ARFs leave out the cloth on the wing joint. That' always bothered me, they simply cannot be as strong as the kit-built because of that. And wings do fold out there.

But the Senior is a true classic.

Jim

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J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC, and T.I.T.O.R. - In July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 7/20/2009 4:11 AM   
sawdust


 

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From: Millstone, WV, USA
Status: offline 		The Kadet Senior ARF has a two piece wing. So I don't understand how you would glass the wing joint on a two piece wing.


To repair my ARF I may well have to make a one piece wing and glass it amount other things. The ribs joining the wings to the wing are coming unglued.

Todd

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 7/20/2009 7:33 AM   
TexasSkyPilot



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Status: offline 		Hmmmm.....I'm gonna guess you're not an old-timer..... Any kit builder would know that by heart !!

Two-piece wing.....you do the same stuff they tell you to do to join the ARF wings, then (you have to remember that usually they would still be in the bones....just framed up...) then you wrap the fiberglass tape (a few inches wide) front to back, all around the joint once, and use fiberglass or epoxy or my favorite, polymerized aliphatic glue.....to seal it down as smoothly as possible, and that adds much strength to the wing. Then when it has dried you smooth it over with whatever your preference (I use more of the polymerized aliphatic resin glue), and then sand it and cover it with the rest of the wing when you're all done..

Wait, I just re-read your post...are you saying that the Kadet Senior ARF is not a joined wing, it is installed in two pieces when flying? If it is, I did not know that they came that way. Not so good for inverted flight, then.

Jim

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 7/20/2009 8:44 AM   
Ken Kehlet


 

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Status: offline 		Hi,

I "ASSEMBLED" my Sig Kadet Senior ARF, installed a servo controlled Camera, a removeable servo operated, Candy Drop Bomb Bay, and a Saito .80 for power. ASSEMBLED per the Sig instructions. Yes, it will fly inverted with the best, do inside and Outside loos, rolling circles, and when connected to a Buddy Box, it's a great big model that our beginners all want to learn to fly. The TWO (2) piece Wing on mine was held together by a very sturdy, very long, Aluminum Dihedral joiner at the balance point and one steel alignment rod about 75% back. slide the wings together, connect the servos, install at least 12 #67 Rubber Bands, & go fly a very forgiving, big model with 80" wingspan.

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kbkopy

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 7/20/2009 3:38 PM   
TexasSkyPilot



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From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Ahhhh.....of course, the aluminum brace, much like the aluminum tubes holding the wings on the Yaks and the aerobatic ARFs these days. That wing is probably tough as nails.

Here I am thinking they must be like some of the cubs, with 4 bolts holding them down at the very center of the top of the fuse, and not really together, with the struts doing the rest....those didn't always like inverted flight and some could come apart.

This setup you are describing is excellent. That one-piece wing was what used to make the Senior tough to move around. The two-piece wing is a feature that SIG needs to make more people aware of. I've been trying to think of what kind of trainer setup I could keep around for training newbies, and my mind always wanders back to my wonderful-flying, forgiving old Kadet Senior, but then I remember that massive wing (that made it fly so great) and I say forget it. With wing joiner braces, I think we have a winner now. The Senior really is the perfect choice.

Thanks for setting me straight about a whole handful of things I had wrong about it..

Oh, and yeah, you're right, I wouldn't glass that joint either!

Jim

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J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC, and T.I.T.O.R. - In July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 7/20/2009 5:44 PM   
FlyingIreland


 

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From: Carrickmacross, IRELAND
Status: offline 		Well, my kit-built senior with the one piece glassed wing is a big pain to transport. I have an estate car (stationwagon) and it just wedges in the back with the rear seats down. And even then, one end rests on top of the front passenger seat.

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 7/20/2009 8:53 PM   
Putputter


 

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From: Shokan, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Hello,
I've just obtained a Sig Sr. Kadet "ARF".  In theory the two piece wing should join and mount with the AL brace , steel rod, front rib insert, and two aft wing bolts.  BUT this ARF doesn't work that way.  The two ribs don't mesh flatly resulting in the  fwd ribs being too far apart to fit in the
slot, and the aft wing bolt holes are too far apart to match the fuse. mounting nuts !!! I'm talking about each being 1/8" too wide. The only way to correct this condition is by carefully sanding one or both rib surfaces to give a snug flat fit.  Both wings have severe warpage (1/2 -1"  ) which is bad enough but to have the joining ribs not flat is pretty bad. I haven't gotten to the fuselage yet but now that I know the quality level of this "ARF", I expect I will have a long time getting this plane airborne.

If this plane is meant for beginners I'd suggest experienced builders give them a lot of assistance.assembling it.  eg. a warped wing will give the beginner an instant barrel roll at takeoff. None precise construction can lead to all sorts of problems if not corrected properly.  

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 7/21/2009 2:46 AM   
TexasSkyPilot



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Status: offline 		I'd call SIG and complain. I would think a new wing would be sent right out if they're still the SIG I know and love!

It sure can't hurt to give them a holler.

Jim

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J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC, and T.I.T.O.R. - In July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 8/10/2009 3:47 AM   
chriss9


 

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From: Matthews, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I also have a Kadet Senior and I noticed that some of you feel making it a tail dragger is a good route. Could I bother you to post the steps and equipment you uses as I would like to do the same. Thank You!

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 8/10/2009 5:18 AM   
TexasSkyPilot



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Status: offline 		Making the plane a Tail-dragger isn't all that complicated. First, the landing gear should go ahead of the CG somewhat, a little further forward for a Trainer-type like the Kadet. You can buy some nice aluminum gear in any local hobby store or online, and two axles to fit your present wheels, or bigger wheels if you're dirt-strip flying or off grass.

You'll want to remove a little material from the bottom of the Fuselage from left to right, and epoxy in a light-ply plate, probably 1/4" thickness or 5/16" for the Kadet would do. You can brace it up inside with some extra blocks and more epoxy.

What I used was three 1/4-20 plastic bolts across the front of the gear and two in the row behind that. That's very strong but it WILL pop off if it needs to in order to save the plane.

For the rear gear, I would think the Sullivan tail wheel gear for a 12-pounder would be just fine, and it steers beautifully. if you're lacking a good place to screw it to under the fin, simply cut a little out and epoxy a wedge of that light-ply there, it'll make a great mount for that. VERY easy gear to install and they are TOUGH!

And last but not least, remember to take off the old gear !!!

Jim

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J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC, and T.I.T.O.R. - In July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 8/10/2009 5:48 AM   
chriss9


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Jim!! Great advice. I will get to work on it this week and post my results.

I visit SA a few times a year (Randolp AFB). Great area.

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 8/10/2009 7:12 AM   
TexasSkyPilot



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From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I live just 15 minutes from there. And there's a great little hobby shop just 1 street away from the main gate.

Let me know when you'll be in town. We'll check out some local fields!

Jim

_____________________________

J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC, and T.I.T.O.R. - In July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 1/3/2010 5:16 PM   
mvaone


 

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From: Mishawaka, IN,
Status: offline 		What size goldberg gear on your kadet senior?

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RE: Sig Giant Kadet Senior ARF - 1/3/2010 7:16 PM   
SeamusG



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From: Arvada, CO, USA
Status: offline 		I'll post my build pics then follow up with a parts list ...


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