RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> AMA Discussions >> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join

Page: << < prev 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 7/10/2008 4:28:22 AM

KidEpoxy

Posts: 3414
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline

Mitchell-

quote:

In other words, the PPP option fit what you wanted more than did an open membership. So you got what you wanted. Looks to me like you should be glad you had that option to choose, if you didn't want the open membership

No, I didnt get what I wanted. I had to stop flyng glow planes at the club, which I clearly did not list in my Wants column. It is a neccessary evil to get out of paying for MA.
The lessor of two evils is not good, it is less evil.
But it is still evil.
Being able to escape the evil doesnt make it good.

Choosing the lessor evil doesnt make it good.
Which contradicts the current theme of the forum that having a choice makes it ok.

Why have a parkie program that is less evil, when we could have a program that is good, one that is not divisive, one that folks would want to be in and follow the rules.

Is the program what other folks like?
According to a pic in MA, folks like the PPP because it doesnt stop them from flying their strykers,
which it actually does prohibit but they either dont know that or choose to ignore that rule.
What will that guy say when we tell him he has to put away his plane, will he still think he made the right call going PPP?

Of course other folks dont mind joining PPP,
they just fly their strykers anyway, why complain about not being allowed to if they do it anyway. Why complain about not being allowed to nominate, when you can instead contest the AMA text on nonminating being for Open Only.

Those that are unaware of the restrictions,
or just choose to ingnore the restrictions,
dont have any problems with the restrictions. That doesnt make the program good.

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to Bob Mitchell)

Post #: 251

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 7/10/2008 3:53:45 PM

Rufcut

Posts: 166
Joined: 4/19/2004
From: Ignacio, CO, USA
Status: offline

I have been following this thread since the OP. From a liability standpoint, why any club would allow PPP members to mix with open members is beyond me. I have a few questions for clubs that allow both PPP and Open members to fly at the same field at the same time.
How do you distinguish between a PPP member and an Open member?
How do you determine which models comply with the PPP restrictions?
How do you ensure that PPP members fly only those models that comply with PPP restrictions?
My club made it easy. Get an AMA Open membership.

(in reply to KidEpoxy)

Post #: 252

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 7/10/2008 4:22:46 PM

The Toolman

Posts: 820
Joined: 11/29/2005
From: Warsaw, MO, USA
Status: offline

Thats what we did at our club also. We haven't got time to be cking every airplane that somebody brings in for compliance with PPP regs. $58 open membership an $25 club dues per year an they can fly whatever they want up to ama limits.

If they want in the hobby, they can pay what the rest of us open membership guys have to.

If anybody here doesn't like it, they can stuff it where the sun doesn't shine.

Ron

_____________________________

Ron B.
AMA-862729 PB-2718

(in reply to Rufcut)

Post #: 253

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 7/10/2008 4:33:07 PM

STLPilot

Posts: 9213
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline

quote:

We haven't got time to be cking every airplane that somebody brings in for compliance with PPP regs.

Do you have time to check AMA numbers listed on thier models? How do you check if you pilots consume alcohol within 8 hours? Who has the time to check range checks for new models? In other words who keeps up with each pilot flying within the AMA safety code at all times and on each flight.

Of course our club allows PPP's, we put the responsibility into the same hands as we trust to those whom we trust not to fly their planes into other persons, the pilots.

_____________________________

Here At The Wall

(in reply to The Toolman)

Post #: 254

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 7/10/2008 5:23:55 PM

Bob Mitchell

Posts: 555
Joined: 3/23/2008
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Status: offline

>> No, I didnt get what I wanted. I had to stop flyng glow planes at the club, which I clearly did not list in my Wants column. It is a neccessary evil to get out of paying for MA. >>

Nonsense.

You made the choice that the PPP membership is a better option for you than an open membership. It's certainly not rational for someone to choose an option that in it's entirety is worse for you than the other option.

You made the choice that you would rather give up glow flying, the ability to nominate, vote and hold office, than to receive MA. If, on balance changing to PPP is not better for you overall, then you shouldn't have changed.

It's that simple. Choose the option that best fits your needs.

_____________________________

Bob Mitchell AMA 903015
H9 Alpha 60/Evolution 61NT, Sig 4* 60/OS 75AX, Futaba 7C 2.4GHz

(in reply to KidEpoxy)

Post #: 255

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 7/10/2008 5:32:41 PM

Bob Mitchell

Posts: 555
Joined: 3/23/2008
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Toolman

Thats what we did at our club also. We haven't got time to be cking every airplane that somebody brings in for compliance with PPP regs. $58 open membership an $25 club dues per year an they can fly whatever they want up to ama limits.

If they want in the hobby, they can pay what the rest of us open membership guys have to.

If anybody here doesn't like it, they can stuff it where the sun doesn't shine.

Ron

Actually you probably should have said "If they want in my club......." rather than "If they want in the hobby...........".

Personally, I think that most of the oppositon to including PPP members in a club (any club, not just your's) isn't so much about the difference in dues, but rather not wanting the type of people and planes that are usually associated with park flying. ie, small electric powered foamies, silly little toys if you were, and people who know little or next to nothing about "real" RC flying.

_____________________________

Bob Mitchell AMA 903015
H9 Alpha 60/Evolution 61NT, Sig 4* 60/OS 75AX, Futaba 7C 2.4GHz

(in reply to The Toolman)

Post #: 256

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 7/10/2008 6:22:48 PM

littlecrankshaf

Posts: 2135
Joined: 12/9/2001
From: here
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot

quote:

We haven't got time to be cking every airplane that somebody brings in for compliance with PPP regs.
Do you have time to check AMA numbers listed on thier models? How do you check if you pilots consume alcohol within 8 hours? Who has the time to check range checks for new models? In other words who keeps up with each pilot flying within the AMA safety code at all times and on each flight.

Of course our club allows PPP's, we put the responsibility into the same hands as we trust to those whom we trust not to fly their planes into other persons, the pilots.

STL
That was an excellent post! I couldn't agree more. Yes, the honor system is the true intent of the SC...That doesn't mean to say if you see someone flagrantly violating and being unsafe you shouldn't attempt to intervene but to scrutinize every aspect of what another pilot is doing is ridiculous. The spirit of the SC is to maintain safety...not to give the field Nazis ammo to fire at everyone they don't like.

Some things can be perfectly safe outside of the rules while other things are unsafe completely within the rules…we have to keep our heads out of the dark when we are at the flying field.

_____________________________

Wow! Another epiphany…that is why the suckups suckup. Super sucking protection power. Yea baby.

(in reply to STLPilot)

Post #: 257

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 7/10/2008 7:06:59 PM

The Toolman

Posts: 820
Joined: 11/29/2005
From: Warsaw, MO, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot

quote:

We haven't got time to be cking every airplane that somebody brings in for compliance with PPP regs.
Do you have time to check AMA numbers listed on thier models? How do you check if you pilots consume alcohol within 8 hours? Who has the time to check range checks for new models? In other words who keeps up with each pilot flying within the AMA safety code at all times and on each flight.

Of course our club allows PPP's, we put the responsibility into the same hands as we trust to those whom we trust not to fly their planes into other persons, the pilots.

STL, I don't reply to your posts anymore, so why don't you get off my back leave me alone..............OK?

_____________________________

Ron B.
AMA-862729 PB-2718

(in reply to STLPilot)

Post #: 258

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 7/10/2008 7:10:59 PM

The Toolman

Posts: 820
Joined: 11/29/2005
From: Warsaw, MO, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mitchell170

Actually you probably should have said "If they want in my club......." rather than "If they want in the hobby...........".

Personally, I think that most of the oppositon to including PPP members in a club (any club, not just your's) isn't so much about the difference in dues, but rather not wanting the type of people and planes that are usually associated with park flying. ie, small electric powered foamies, silly little toys if you were, and people who know little or next to nothing about "real" RC flying.

Ok, maybe I worded that wrong. I could care less what they fly, they are still welcome at our club at the open membership level. Heck, we even have a coupla electrics that fly at our field more than I do, which is a lot.

Just don't lump me in with your generalizations

Ronnie

_____________________________

Ron B.
AMA-862729 PB-2718

(in reply to Bob Mitchell)

Post #: 259

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 7/10/2008 7:59:24 PM

Red Scholefield

Posts: 4980
Joined: 12/8/2001
From: Newberry, FL, USA
Status: offline

Our club, Flying Gators MAC - Gainesville, FL, has not had the first PPP pilot show up yet. Strange when you consider we are a University town. On the order of 100 members, probably 1/2 electric, at least the active flyers. When one does he will probably be welcome and pay the same club dues as the rest.

_____________________________

Red S.
AMA 951 Leader Member

(in reply to Red Scholefield)

Post #: 260

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 7/10/2008 8:18:09 PM

Robotech

Posts: 986
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Pine Bluff, AR,
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

No, I didnt get what I wanted.

Then why did you coose it? Really. Drop the magazine excuse and be honest. Nobody gets that PO'd over a magazine. Even Stickbuilder knows he can just throw it away without cracking the cover.

quote:

I had to stop flyng glow planes at the club, which I clearly did not list in my Wants column.

Not. You decided you would rather give up glow planes than pony up the $29. Or get the mag. Whatever.

quote:

It is a neccessary evil to get out of paying for MA.

The excuse de jour again.

quote:

The lessor of two evils is not good, it is less evil.
But it is still evil.
Being able to escape the evil doesnt make it good.

How can anyone consider a modeling magazine evil? How is a Member Organization's free magazine ( yes, it's free, it's part of the open member package ). Are there any other PPP members that are as consumed with hatred for an open member benefit?

quote:

Choosing the lessor evil doesnt make it good.
Which contradicts the current theme of the forum that having a choice makes it ok.

Good example of faulty logic there.

Open Membership = $58
PPP Membership = $29
No membership = free

Which one is evil?
How about this one:

Whopper w/cheese = $2.49
Whopper Jr. = $.99
No food = Free

Is the whopper with cheese evil? Is your CHOICE of food a matter of the lesser of two evils?

quote:

Why have a parkie program that is less evil, when we could have a program that is good, one that is not divisive, one that folks would want to be in and follow the rules.

And what exactly would that be? All the perks of the $58 membership for $29?

quote:

According to a pic in MA, folks like the PPP because it doesnt stop them from flying their strykers,
which it actually does prohibit but they either dont know that or choose to ignore that rule.
What will that guy say when we tell him he has to put away his plane, will he still think he made the right call going PPP?

I was not aware that you had a first hand report that a PPP member was illegaly flying a Stryker. Or are you stating psuedo facts?
What will the guy say when he has to put his plane away? Dunno. But it should be along the lines of " Darn, I can't decide if I am just a complete idiot for not understanding the PPP limits" or " Drats, foiled again. Got caught trying to skirt the rules."

quote:

Those that are unaware of the restrictions,

Unaware, c'mon give me a break. You are calling them idiots again.

quote:

or just choose to ingnore the restrictions,

Then they are rule breakers, dishonest, ......... and uninsured by the AMA.

(in reply to KidEpoxy)

Post #: 261

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 7/13/2008 11:24:42 PM

RAMFlyer

Posts: 407
Joined: 12/6/2001
From: Beavercreek, OH, USA
Status: offline

NOPE: Our landowner (United States Air Force) requires "full" insurance as provided by the AMA to allow people to use the flying site. On the other side of that coin, our dues are usually less than $3.00 per year and that offsets the increase from PPP to full AMA dues! Not bad for a runway that is more than 100 feet wide by 10,000 feet long...

< Message edited by RAMFlyer -- 7/13/2008 11:27:56 PM >

(in reply to Stickbuilder)

Post #: 262

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 7/14/2008 12:19:12 AM

STLPilot

Posts: 9213
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RAMFlyer

NOPE: Our landowner (United States Air Force) requires "full" insurance as provided by the AMA to allow people to use the flying site. On the other side of that coin, our dues are usually less than $3.00 per year and that offsets the increase from PPP to full AMA dues! Not bad for a runway that is more than 100 feet wide by 10,000 feet long...

You might want to inform your landowner that they get the same insurance whether it be PPP or Open membership, $2.5mm for both. The 500k is for personal insurance for the pilot.

_____________________________

Here At The Wall

(in reply to RAMFlyer)

Post #: 263

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 7/14/2008 12:43:36 AM