RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join
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RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 4/8/2008 1:32:28 AM

KidEpoxy

Posts: 3082
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: online

"I really have nothing against PPP, but my God, it needs to be better thought out"

Amen to that, brother.
We could use something to bring the parkies into our org, but 'PPP as is' aint it.

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to busted2props)

Post #: 126

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 4/8/2008 1:36:42 AM

JUGFLIER

Posts: 943
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Muscle Shoals, AL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

"I really have nothing against PPP, but my God, it needs to be better thought out"

Amen to that, brother.
We could use something to bring the parkies into our org, but 'PPP as is' aint it.

I said all along before this program was launched, It had to be upgradeable to full membership and had to be able to interact with existing clubs. This program falls short i think of those goals. But like anything created by man, nothing is ever perfect. I think eventually this program will change and address some of your concerns.

(in reply to KidEpoxy)

Post #: 127

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 4/8/2008 2:22:54 AM

Bob Mitchell

Posts: 135
Joined: 3/23/2008
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Status: offline

>>They are second rate citizens (according to the AMA) so why not treat them as such? Not fair ...Okay, what is fair? We can prevent them from flying at the new site, though. HA! HA! HA! But maybe that's not what we want to do...Hell, I don't know, we need some input on this. Maybe Papacita's and brew is called for? Next meeting? <<

I think the question you should be asking yourself is whether you want to grow your club and attract new members to the sport or to drive them away.

Current members of your club and AMA are losing nothing here it seems to me. If these folks want to join your club and fly park planes at your field, then welcome them, charge them full members and treat them as full members. They may not be flying the same kind of planes that you are right now, but they are still flying RC, are looking for a club where people share their interest and a place to fly.

If and when they want to move up to faster/larger aircraft (and if your club has welcomed them and treated them like full members I think that will be when not if) let them do so when they upgrade their AMA membership.

It seems to me that the AMA is trying to draw people to the sport and have them flying in an appropriate manner. You may not agree with the way AMA is trying to do that, but what do you really have to lose? Nothing that is readily apparent to me, anyway.

.....my 2 cents as a newbie to the sport.

Bob

_____________________________

Bob Mitchell AMA 903015
Hanger 9 Alpha 60, Evolution 61NT, Futaba 7C 2.4MHz

(in reply to busted2props)

Post #: 128

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 4/8/2008 2:37:36 AM

busted2props

Posts: 168
Joined: 1/15/2002
From: here, , USA
Status: offline

Bob,
I'm not trying to slam the individual. Heck, just one visit to our field and you will see everything from 40% to foamies flying at the same time. Even see a very small electric hovering with a 35% Yak and chasing it around the pattern. What a sight. Lots of fun.

TUFF is just that. Texas Unlimited Fun Flyers. You brung it you fly it. We don't care. Just need to find some middle ground. Our club does embrace any type of R/C and yes, free flight and control line. Just fly and have fun. But what does the PPP have to offer the club? Future club members? Well, you have to be AMA and a club memeber to fly. Our dues are outrageous. We will refund your dues if you are not happy. That's how outrageous. For now anyway.

We do have a brand new flying field. Privately owned. Don't know if we will have dues to fly there or not. Still in the air. Just started flying there last weekend.(

OOOPS I lied--2 weekends ago

) Alot of the club members got together and mowed a runway and started flying. Alot of maint. and coordination will be required to make this one work. We need mowers. We have the people to man the mowers, just need the mowers.

If you would like to be a TUFF member just let us know. Fun to be had by all.

edited for my misinformation

Thanks,
Mean Monte

< Message edited by busted2props -- 4/8/2008 2:47:23 AM >

_____________________________

Send Lawyers, Guns and Money!

(in reply to Bob Mitchell)

Post #: 129

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 4/8/2008 2:46:49 AM

Stickbuilder

Posts: 5027
Joined: 11/20/2005
From: leesburg, FL, USA
Status: online

So far, I have seen several possible answers to my original question. The important thing has been missed completely. If you were a brand new flyer with a Park Foamie model that was under 2 pounds, and would not crack 60 MPH, why would you want to belong to an AMA club? What exactly do they offer you? You can pretty much fly where you wish, and have no one looking over your shoulder telling you what you can and cannot do, or where or when you can fly. You can carve out a little piece of a park and fly until you are run off by the park police, or if you have an acre or so, fly there. Even the church parking lots look kind of inviting. The possibilities are endless. Most of all, there are no dues, or initiation fees. If I were in that situation, I'd run from the clubs like they had the plague.

Bill, AMA 4720

_____________________________

It's easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesn't look like an airplane.

(in reply to busted2props)

Post #: 130

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 4/8/2008 5:44:46 AM

Bob Mitchell

Posts: 135
Joined: 3/23/2008
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Status: offline

>>If you would like to be a TUFF member just let us know. Fun to be had by all. <<

Thanks for the invitation, but the drive to the field would be a bit long.

What you describe to me sounds like a club who embraces RC'ers of all types. (Air, obviously).

And yeah, I think that the AMA plan can work in your club's favor. The thing a club offers that a solitary park flyer won't get is flying with others who know more, fly better, fly bigger, faster and more involved aircraft and usually will be more than happy to assist someone in learning and improving.

Sure, not every park flyer wants more, but like most hobbies do some will get really hooked and want to expand and increase their skills. Those kind of folks are prime candidates for club membership. That's the reason I chose glow over electric. There's no better way for me to learn to fly at the lowest risk of losing equipment than to hook up with folks who have been there/done that and have a lot to teach a newbie. Also a great way to make new friends that share an interest.

I have a hard time understanding why some folks feel "cheated" because others are getting a reduced level of AMA membership at a reduced price. Nothing is being taken away from those with full memberships. Again, it seems to me that it's one route to increasing interest in the hobby.

Thanks for your comments.

Bob

_____________________________

Bob Mitchell AMA 903015
Hanger 9 Alpha 60, Evolution 61NT, Futaba 7C 2.4MHz

(in reply to busted2props)

Post #: 131

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 4/8/2008 5:46:31 AM

KidEpoxy

Posts: 3082
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: online

quote:

Current members of your club and AMA are losing nothing here it seems to me

Let me give you a graphic demonstration:

PPPguy: My plane is quiet, so I save $28
OpenGuy: My plane is Rubber, mines quieter.
PPPguy: Well, my plane is Foam, so its safer if it hit you.
OpenGuy: Duh.. my 4oz celophane RubberFF might disintegrate if you snease near it.
PPPguy: Well, I must be special, cause I get to save $28.
OpenGuy: Yeah, maybe if I flew louder, more dangerous planes than I do now, I could save money too.... hold on a sec, lets both stick out fingers in our WideOpenThrottle props.. c'mon, it will be fun... look, I just stopped my rubberbanded prop, you stop that 4.5x3.5 22k APC MeatGrinder with your finger then you can join our club.

Or scroll back to the example of the 2 Zagi's,
both 6x3 14k, both want to fly at an oldschool AMA club,
but one gets to save $28 cause he's Brushless at a glow club
and the other has to pay the extra $28 to fly cox049 at a glow club.
Noise has nothing to do with PPP's wanting to fly at GLOW clubs, it is just a tottaly unfair shaft of the 1/2A community that have been flying in parks decades before there were ParkFliers.

Besides, the PPP are intended to make their own Urban PPP Club where real clubs cant go. If we let them just join real clubs, then where is the motivation for them to do what we (Muncie) intended them to do- Form their own clubs downtown.

BTW: I'm not getting much action in the thread trying to locate a Urban PPP Club near me.... I cant find any online list of these new clubs ... that must be forming from all the Serfs that signed up in our org.

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to Bob Mitchell)

Post #: 132

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 4/8/2008 5:54:20 AM

Bob Mitchell

Posts: 135
Joined: 3/23/2008
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Status: offline

>>If I were in that situation, I'd run from the clubs like they had the plague. <<

And some will undoubtedly do just that. On the other hand there will also be those who are looking for a group wilth which to enjoy the hobby, learn to fly and learn about other types of equipment.

I suspect that the group you describe aren't going to take advantage of the PPP option.

The other group that I described may, and may end up becoming dues paying members of a local club.

I gues it's a half empty/half full thing.

Bob

_____________________________

Bob Mitchell AMA 903015
Hanger 9 Alpha 60, Evolution 61NT, Futaba 7C 2.4MHz

(in reply to Stickbuilder)

Post #: 133

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 4/8/2008 3:15:18 PM

-pkh-

Posts: 2295
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Emmaus, PA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

So far, I have seen several possible answers to my original question. The important thing has been missed completely. If you were a brand new flyer with a Park Foamie model that was under 2 pounds, and would not crack 60 MPH, why would you want to belong to an AMA club? What exactly do they offer you? You can pretty much fly where you wish, and have no one looking over your shoulder telling you what you can and cannot do, or where or when you can fly. You can carve out a little piece of a park and fly until you are run off by the park police, or if you have an acre or so, fly there. Even the church parking lots look kind of inviting. The possibilities are endless. Most of all, there are no dues, or initiation fees. If I were in that situation, I'd run from the clubs like they had the plague.

Bill, AMA 4720

I think you hit the nail on the head there. I believe there are two general types of people buying park flyers:

(1) those who see a park flyer as just a toy to play with.
(2) those who see it as an inexpensive way to enter the RC aircraft hobby.

The "toy" crowd will not be the least bit interested in joining the AMA or clubs, but the "hobby" crowd may see the PPP as an inexpensive entry point to the AMA (and perhaps local clubs embracing the PPP).

_____________________________

Paul - Helis: Two Raptor 50V2s, Venture 30CP, Blade CX2
Planes: Twist 150, Twist 60, Tribute 36, GP .40 Mustang

(in reply to Stickbuilder)

Post #: 134

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 4/8/2008 3:39:28 PM

Bob Mitchell

Posts: 135
Joined: 3/23/2008
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Status: offline

>>Let me give you a graphic demonstration: <<

I can make up some silly dialog too, if you want me to.

As I, and a couple of others have said, some park flyers just want a toy, and others may be using park flyers as an entry to the sport. The former won't be interested in a club no matter what. The latter may indeed decide to seek out a club.

How is that taking something away from current members? Please be specific this time.

Bob

_____________________________

Bob Mitchell AMA 903015
Hanger 9 Alpha 60, Evolution 61NT, Futaba 7C 2.4MHz

(in reply to KidEpoxy)

Post #: 135

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 4/8/2008 3:40:59 PM

Stickbuilder

Posts: 5027
Joined: 11/20/2005
From: leesburg, FL, USA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: -pkh-

I think you hit the nail on the head there. I believe there are two general types of people buying park flyers:

(1) those who see a park flyer as just a toy to play with.
(2) those who see it as an inexpensive way to enter the RC aircraft hobby.

The "toy" crowd will not be the least bit interested in joining the AMA or clubs, but the "hobby" crowd may see the PPP as an inexpensive entry point to the AMA (and perhaps local clubs embracing the PPP).

So, the burning question is; what do we do to make the PPP canditates want to join the clubs? How do we make the prospect of belonging to a given club so attractive that they will want to join? Is it purely a cost factor, or is it something else.

Bill, AMA 4720

_____________________________

It's easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesn't look like an airplane.

(in reply to -pkh-)

Post #: 136

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 4/8/2008 4:50:36 PM

KidEpoxy

Posts: 3082
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: online

quote:

I can make up some silly dialog too, if you want me to.
<...>
How is that taking something away from current members? Please be specific this time.

Call it silly if you want,
doesnt change the fact that you are giving a discount so folks can fly quient planes at loud clubs.

Exactly what are members losing?
That would be AMA members that fly 1lb 40mph glow planes are losing $28(every year) because they cant go PPP like their electric 1lb 40mph friend. Just because we fly cox049 at the park, where the on high AMA clubmembers dont see them, doesnt mean we dont exist. We exist, and to fly at a glow AMA club takes our 1lb 40mph planes $58 while the electric guy gets a $28 discount to fly his 1lb 40mph at the glow AMA club.

Noise has nothing to do with it when they want a discount to fly at glow clubs.

Simple solution:
Since AMA is subsidizing electrics, take the money.
Each year AMA will give me $28 to stop flying cox049,
and use GWS300 instead. OK, I accept your terms, give me the money, thanx. I just took this years $28 PPP subsidy & bought a $24 geared300 & ESC, also spending next years on batteries, & screwed that on my 049 firewall instead. Keep the PPP Kickback coming, pay me to stop flying cox049 at the club next to the 91saitos & 40GS's. Heck, tell the clubs to give a subsidy there too, I could use a better charger I could by with the club PPP Kickback.

But I'll let you in on a secret... one that I tell everyone & post on the net...
I still fly cox049 at the park even with my susbidized PPP membership,
I even fly my os46 in a sport plane at the park,
because AMA has found a way to drive glow flyers out of the org and into the parks with the insulting, illogical, not working, PPP discriminatory $28kickback. How many new mythical Urban PPP Clubs have formed as intended, or are the PPP wanting to join regular clubs like we said they would 6 months ago but were dismissed because we were not being 'pro-AMA'

You want to give them a price break, go for it,
I'm on the receiving side of your subsidies and I can always use more Kickback bought equipment
BTW, thanx for the motor & ESC you guys bought me

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to Bob Mitchell)

Post #: 137

RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join - 4/8/2008 5:14:31 PM

Bob Mitchell

Posts: 135
Joined: 3/23/2008
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Status: offline

>>Exactly what are members losing?
That would be AMA members that fly 1lb 40mph glow planes are losing $28(every year) because they cant go PPP like their electric 1lb 40mph friend. Just because we fly cox049 at the park, where the on high AMA clubmembers dont see them, doesnt mean we dont exist. We exist, and to fly at a glow AMA club takes our 1lb 40mph planes $58 while the electric guy gets a $28 discount to fly his 1lb 40mph at the glow AMA club. <<

And you are still getting the same deal you did before, aren't you? You haven't lost a thing.

The AMA is taking steps to bring more people into the hobby, which in the long run should benefit everyone who is into this as a hobby and not as a toy, you're still getting the same deal you have for x number of years and this is a terrible, unfair and discriminatory thing???

You're glass is half full, not half empty.

bob

_____________________________

Bob Mitchell AMA 903015
Hanger 9 Alpha 60, Evolution 61NT, Futaba 7C 2.4MHz

(in reply to KidEpoxy)