Will your club allow PPP members to join (Full Version)

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Stickbuilder -> Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/8/2008 9:06:07 PM)

What is the consensus concerinig the allowance of those who only hold a PPP membership? Is your local club going to allow them? Will the dues structure be the same for them, or will your club create an new structure for these potential members? How about fees for initiation? Our fees for new members at the three clubs to which I belong are about $150.00 for the initiation fee, and the average in this area is $100.00 for annual dues. Will the PPP members roll over for this much money to belong to a club that has rules?

Bill, AMA 4720



BarracudaHockey -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/8/2008 9:23:37 PM)

We require open or jr membership so that everyone flying at the field has the same coverage.

The other side of the coin though is our dues are only 25/yr



GAP-RCU -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/8/2008 10:42:17 PM)

PPP flyers are welcome to our club. Since our field is in a city park, it only made sense to open the doors to them.

They have to pay the initiation fee ($10) and the regular club dues ($48/yr) like everyone else.

Gary



Mode One -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/8/2008 10:55:30 PM)

We've discussed this at our club and decided for them to be to be a member, they would need to pay the same dues and initiation fees as everyone else.



GAP-RCU -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/9/2008 12:42:24 AM)

Bill, I really think that most clubs, like ours, will be adamant that everyone pay the same local dues, no matter what you fly. After all, the grass don't care what size plane is landing on it - it still needs to get cut.

With the fees/dues amounts you've mentioned, you could take the high road and allow PPP admission, but realistically, you probably never see one join. What may happen, however, is some existing club members may wish to downsize to the PPP; perhaps some of the older members who've embraced the small electrics as a way to keep going in the hobby. To allow PPP may be a nice favor to some long time club members who've paid their dues many times over through the years.

Good luck, Gary


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

What is the consensus concerinig the allowance of those who only hold a PPP membership? Is your local club going to allow them? Will the dues structure be the same for them, or will your club create an new structure for these potential members? How about fees for initiation? Our fees for new members at the three clubs to which I belong are about $150.00 for the initiation fee, and the average in this area is $100.00 for annual dues. Will the PPP members roll over for this much money to belong to a club that has rules?

Bill, AMA 4720




rcmiket -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/9/2008 12:49:13 AM)

"PPP flyers are welcome to our club. Since our field is in a city park, it only made sense to open the doors to them.

They have to pay the initiation fee ($10) and the regular club dues ($48/yr) like everyone else. "

I have always wondered about this. Since its a city park can you refuse to let a taxpayer use public property if they refuse to join your club?
Mike



abel_pranger -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/9/2008 1:42:12 AM)

Bill,

Like you, I belong to 3 clubs, active in two. One club I am active in and the one I am not have decided to allow PPP members to join. For those, the PPP members get no special considerations apart from any other AMA member, except there is an expectation they operate in accord with the limits set for PPP.
For the third club, I proposed that they be admitted, for a number of reasons of which I argued only three.

a) it's the right thing to do; good for model aviation, would probably get some younger folks in the club, moral/ethical considerations and the like.
b) the club site is within a very quiet ag/rural/residential zone, and keeping a low profile has been essential to our tenure there - we've worked hard and successfully to operate within that constraint for 30 years. New neighbors moving ever closer indicates to me we'll have to do more and lower our profile further. PPP members joining in the club seems like an opportunity, as the limits they agree to operate within are more community compatible than our existing standards. We wound not have to impose tighter standards on existing members, just let the PP members lower our overall community impact, and let AMA pay them an incentive to do it. like, when life throws you lemons, make lemonade.
c) site is a closed landfill, owned by a public entity and fairly recently been turned over to administration by Parks & Rec. A trail of agreements with or in the hands of external agents, including the club lease and by-laws. We're on the record as having club membership open to any AMA member. I don't want that provision changed or questioned, especially at the County Sup's office by somebody that has been turned away because he isn't a 'full' member of AMA.

Anyway, what I thought were solid reasons didn't get a warm reaction at all from The Board. After a couple of days and some feedback indicating they were still deadlocked, I withdrew my proposal. At that point I knew they would either do something right or something wrong, and because of the uncertainty I decided it was best they do nothing, as that was the only option I could vote for.

Abel



ira d -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/9/2008 4:16:32 AM)

I have not asked but I have heard no discussion about the PPP at my club or any
other local club that I been to recently. I really dont think a lot of people know
much if anything about the PPP yet.

If I think about it I may ask at the next club meeting.



GAP-RCU -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/9/2008 5:23:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rcmiket
I have always wondered about this. Since its a city park can you refuse to let a taxpayer use public property if they refuse to join your club?
Mike


No, we don't refuse anyone, but the city can. The main city requirement is that everyone is covered by AMA and that's what we really look for. We don't get uptight as to whether tax payers are club members or not, but they do need to have an AMA card stuck in the frequency board. It is our club that purchases the AMA insurance for the city and we do 100% of the site development, maintenance, and mowing. Hence, one small perk we enjoy is a locked gate & parking area.



littlecrankshaf -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/9/2008 4:55:24 PM)

Most of the threads in this forum are similar to mankind's questions to understand his own existence… question after question as topics trying to define ourselves with our own answers…



quote:

ORIGINAL: GAP-RCU


quote:

ORIGINAL: rcmiket
I have always wondered about this. Since its a city park can you refuse to let a taxpayer use public property if they refuse to join your club?
Mike


Hence, one small perk we enjoy is a locked gate & parking area.



This one sentence speaks volumes about the current AMA conditioned mindset...and we wonder way the hobby and the AMA is in the weeds.

I am certain a defense to my point will be made…of course…oh well…



rcmiket -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/9/2008 6:00:51 PM)

I'm surprised the city allows you to lock off a portion of public property. Mike



Gremlin Castle -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/9/2008 6:28:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rcmiket

I'm surprised the city allows you to lock off a portion of public property. Mike

You shouldn't be surprised at that.
Ball Diamonds,soccer fields,equestrian paths, joggers trails,dog runs, and so forth are all found on public property and restricted to use by certain groups that meet certain standards and requirements.

The fact that tax payers "own" the property does not give taxpayers equal acess to it.



KidEpoxy -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/9/2008 6:33:44 PM)

<snip> Off topic junk removed by poster.

---

One guy's club has to wait to see if the admins will accept PPP insurance, the scare tactic to have parks only allow "AMA" insurance is coming back to bite them. Seems folks have been screaming how flyers need to have $mils of insurance for decades, but now they say way less than that is ok.... but just their brand of less. I guess any amount of Muncie insurance is allowed while $1mil, $2mil, $20mil of Harthford aint allowed by the city.[8|]



STLPilot -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/9/2008 6:39:51 PM)

quote:

I guess any amount of Muncie insurance is allowed while $1mil, $2mil, $20mil of Harthford aint allowed by the city.
Many times your exactly right. Parks love national organizations as well as insurance. Most parks themselves are also part of national park organizations, they know all about how the game works. They know that most members of most national orgs will not only abide by their park standards, but that of a national org as well. Soccer, baseball, archery and yes even skateboarders have their national park assistant orgs as well. Some of those members believe in what their orgs are trying to achieve to protect their rights. Of course you could go about it on your own ....



rcmiket -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/9/2008 6:40:49 PM)

Here unless the field is in use buy organized leagues, anyone during park hours are allowed to use them. I've never seen any public parks locked for private use by "clubs or special intrest groups" I am surprised that no one has challenged that. I know I would, as long as I had a AMA card in hand what right does a "club" have to lock up a portion of a park that I pay for and then have the right to use? Pulic means public right?



Gremlin Castle -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/9/2008 6:47:43 PM)

No public does not mean public.
Try running a go cart or a dirt bike on a ball diamond or soccer field. Better yet try flying close to an organized group that has an event in progress.

All public has ever meant is the classification of ownership. Public in no way gives you any right to access or use the land without having met specific terms and conditions as set by what ever governing body has control of the land in question.



rcmiket -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/9/2008 7:04:19 PM)

I'm not saying "run a go cart" I'm saying fly a plane on a public park DISIGNATED for that purpose with a AMA card, that we the taxpayers own thats locked up by a club. Get the point now?



-pkh- -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/9/2008 7:22:33 PM)

The board of directors of my club voted to allow Park Pilot members to join with reduced dues ($30) and no initiation fee. Our dues are currently $65/year with $25 initiation fee. We are going to have a membership vote on this issue at the next meeting. The PP members would of course have to observe the AMA's PPP restrictions on the aircraft they can fly at our field (no nitro, <2lbs, <60mph), and they would have no voting privileges in the club.

We hope to entice some of these new park flyer owners to join our club with the lower dues. Then we can teach them to fly their planes safely at our field, and maybe get them interested in the larger planes, and perhaps a full membership (in the AMA and our club) in the future.

If we had a relatively "full" membership, and we had a large crowd flying on the weekends, we probably would not have considered this. But recently, we've had another club open up nearby, with a much larger field, and the turnout at our field has been thinning out. We hope this will get some more newbies hooked on our hobby, and attract some new members.



KidEpoxy -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/9/2008 7:30:16 PM)

<snip> Off topic junk removed by poster

----

But the thread is about which clubs let PPP guys in.
On that, if you dont let them in, will you set up a Freq Sharing plan for them?



STLPilot -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/9/2008 7:33:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: -pkh-

The board of directors of my club voted to allow Park Pilot members to join with reduced dues ($30) and no initiation fee. Our dues are currently $65/year with $25 initiation fee. We are going to have a membership vote on this issue at the next meeting. The PP members would of course have to observe the AMA's PPP restrictions on the aircraft they can fly at our field (no nitro, <2lbs, <60mph), and they would have no voting privileges in the club.

We hope to entice some of these new park flyer owners to join our club with the lower dues. Then we can teach them to fly their planes safely at our field, and maybe get them interested in the larger planes, and perhaps a full membership (in the AMA and our club) in the future.

If we had a relatively "full" membership, and we had a large crowd flying on the weekends, we probably would not have considered this. But recently, we've had another club open up nearby, with a much larger field, and the turnout at our field has been thinning out. We hope this will get some more newbies hooked on our hobby, and attract some new members.


Now that's what I call taking a proactive approach in keeping your club ahead of the game. I have a feeling you'll be the first of many clubs to follow suit in the future. The only difference is that your club did it by choice (if it passes) and the clubs that want to hold off will be following suit by force. Good stuff and good luck, you deserve it.



GAP-RCU -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/9/2008 8:24:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rcmiket

Here unless the field is in use buy organized leagues, anyone during park hours are allowed to use them. I've never seen any public parks locked for private use by "clubs or special intrest groups" I am surprised that no one has challenged that. I know I would, as long as I had a AMA card in hand what right does a "club" have to lock up a portion of a park that I pay for and then have the right to use? Pulic means public right?


It was the park that came to us with the lock. Non RC people were entering through our drive and driving their cars into areas of the park that the city didn't want. So the city came to us, and we chained a couple of locks together. No big deal.



Stickbuilder -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/9/2008 9:29:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot

quote:

I guess any amount of Muncie insurance is allowed while $1mil, $2mil, $20mil of Harthford aint allowed by the city.
Many times your exactly right. Parks love national organizations as well as insurance. Most parks themselves are also part of national park organizations, they know all about how the game works. They know that most members of most national orgs will not only abide by their park standards, but that of a national org as well. Soccer, baseball, archery and yes even skateboarders have their national park assistant orgs as well. Some of those members believe in what their orgs are trying to achieve to protect their rights. Of course you could go about it on your own ....


PLEASE GET THE THREAD BACK ON TOPIC.

Bill, AMA 4720



-pkh- -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/9/2008 11:15:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot


quote:

ORIGINAL: -pkh-

The board of directors of my club voted to allow Park Pilot members to join with reduced dues ($30) and no initiation fee. ..

Now that's what I call taking a proactive approach in keeping your club ahead of the game. I have a feeling you'll be the first of many clubs to follow suit in the future. The only difference is that your club did it by choice (if it passes) and the clubs that want to hold off will be following suit by force. Good stuff and good luck, you deserve it.

Thanks for the kind words! I hope other clubs will do the same to help promote the hobby.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

PLEASE GET THE THREAD BACK ON TOPIC.

Bill, AMA 4720

I'll second that! I'd like to hear how other clubs are viewing Park Pilot memberships as well.



2fast -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/10/2008 5:09:48 AM)

I fly at a field provided by the city. The city does not require membership in any club or organization as long as the plane weighs less than 2 lbs and is electric powered. The club dues is $0. I suppose park flyers could join the club as long as they paid their share ($0).

How about free AMA dues for park flyers? Maybe someone will actually join.



ira d -> RE: Will your club allow PPP members to join (3/10/2008 6:31:35 AM)

Just a update on my previous post I was at one of the local fields that I sometimes
fly at, and I asked one of the club officers about the PPP and he didnt know anything
about it.



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