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I suggest a name change from AMA to FEE - 3/10/2008 6:34:54 PM   
mscic-RCU



Posts: 963
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: New London, OH,
Status: offline 		I am president of two clubs in our area. Both clubs sponsor fly-in's and the cost for the charter, sanctioning and advertising is getting ridiculous. It costs $90 to charter a club, $20 for the sanction fee and if you want one of those small box ads, that costs $45 per month. So in one night our clubs spent $310 in fees to the AMA. Then add another $58 for our annual dues, whew, it seems like it never stops. If i didn't like the smell of burnt castor oil in the AM, I just might consider going to park flyers!!
       Post #: 1

RE: I suggest a name change from AMA to FEE - 3/10/2008 7:06:01 PM   
STLPilot


 

Posts: 9237
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mscic-RCU

I am president of two clubs in our area. Both clubs sponsor fly-in's and the cost for the charter, sanctioning and advertising is getting ridiculous. It costs $90 to charter a club, $20 for the sanction fee and if you want one of those small box ads, that costs $45 per month. So in one night our clubs spent $310 in fees to the AMA. Then add another $58 for our annual dues, whew, it seems like it never stops. If i didn't like the smell of burnt castor oil in the AM, I just might consider going to park flyers!!

So then why does your club belong to the AMA? You can just as easy get a group rate through a local insurance broker and create your own charter?

_____________________________

Here At The Wall

(in reply to mscic-RCU)
       Post #: 2

RE: I suggest a name change from AMA to FEE - 3/10/2008 7:44:40 PM   
KidEpoxy



Posts: 3572
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Contact The Hartford insurance, I hear they do RC insurance,
tell them the particulars & number of your group, and that you want coverage to match what AMA provides,
then post their quote here.
Just tell your landlord you are getting the same insurance, just from a different company.

Perhaps you too could be like the comercial:
Great news, I just saved a bundle on my RC insurance.

Of course, the club would have to shell out the money for a copy of MA magazine to pass around in addition to the insurance. And you will no longer get the itty bitty sanctioned event announcement for free.... and your $45 ads wont have 'sanctioned' in them.

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to mscic-RCU)
       Post #: 3

RE: I suggest a name change from AMA to FEE - 3/10/2008 8:05:50 PM   
SSRCCPREZ



Posts: 462
Joined: 10/23/2004
From: MAnsfield, MA, USA
Status: offline 		$310.00 is a lot of money? Really?...that is one model set up, almost the cost of a transmitter, 100 cups of coffee which is 1 on saturday and 1 on sunday for a year...most drink more than that. That is not even one month cost of home heating fuel. A weeks grocery bill for a family of three, not even the cost of a current xbox or playstation which run around $500.00. $310.00 is 10 rounds of golf at a PUBLIC course. We spend more than $310.00 on a lot of things in a shorter period of time and never utter a word. Further I think your math may be a litle flawed in that you need to take the number of members and divide the 110.00 by that number. The more the members the less the cost.
You know you pay for car,health and auto insurance and pay a lot more. If you really do not like the fees you can walk to work, and live in an apartment, just like you can opt to not be a part of the AMA, but really?.....for $310.00....is it really worth bothering to even spend time thinking about it....it's only $310.00 and that is if you are a club of 1 member.

_____________________________

"I haven't Forgotten"

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 4

RE: I suggest a name change from AMA to FEE - 3/10/2008 8:33:57 PM   
-pkh-



Posts: 2483
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Emmaus, PA, USA
Status: online 		I agree with SSRCPREZ, the AMA fees aren't that high, IMO.

$90 a year for the charter is not much compared to what my clubs pay for the lease on their properties. If you can't raise enough money from your sanctioned events to more than cover your sanction fee and advertising costs, then stop having sanctioned events and/or stop advertising in MA.

_____________________________

Paul - Helis: Two Raptor 50V2s, Venture 30CP, Blade CX2
Planes: Twist 150, Twist 60, Tribute 36, GP .40 Mustang

(in reply to SSRCCPREZ)
       Post #: 5

RE: I suggest a name change from AMA to FEE - 3/10/2008 9:56:11 PM   
KidEpoxy



Posts: 3572
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

$310.00 is a lot of money? Really?...that is one model set up, almost the cost of a transmitter, 100 cups of coffee which is 1 on saturday and 1 on sunday for a year...most drink more than that. That is not even one month cost of home heating fuel. A weeks grocery bill for a family of three

but which of those will he give up to spent that particular FranklinTrio on AMA?
perhaps not having a plane to fly would let him better afford having AMA.... or kill the furnace just one month... which of your list do you suggest he give up?
BTW, 100x $1.19 20oz coffe isnt $300, nor does buying 75 cans of Foldgers brew just 100 cups... how many POTS of coffe do you guys get from a $4 can of grounds, one???
$134 Hitec 6ch +RX +4servo or $209 Computer radio +RX +4servo ... radios dont have to be $300 either.
This is just like saying used c150/c152 cost as much as a car... well, some do cause some cars are $40k, but more folks drive around in cars worth less than $10k

PKH had the right idea,
The $90 aint so hard to swallow for an insured club of 5+ guys for a year,
And it costs $20 to sanction an event... ok, I can see that.

But lumping the event Advertizing budget in with the minimal cost is not really fair. We have all seen the full page B17 Fly In ads for Bomber Field, they choose to spend that much while others may choose to spend just the $45per on magazine advertizing, or even $0 on magazine ads and better spend that advertizing dolar in a more focused local/direct ad campaign.

What would the same size & run of the $45 ad cost if one chose a different RC magazine to promote the $20 event?

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to -pkh-)
       Post #: 6

RE: I suggest a name change from AMA to FEE - 3/10/2008 10:44:05 PM   
SSRCCPREZ



Posts: 462
Joined: 10/23/2004
From: MAnsfield, MA, USA
Status: offline 		I guess it depends on the size of coffee, out her an xtra large Dunkins coffee is $2.25, a Latte at Starbucks is almost $4.00..everything is relative, oh and umm...Folgers?! YUK!!!! there is a reason it is cheap, it is swill!!!!! What should he give up to pay, well NOTHING in fact!!!! Again he is acting as if he is paying the whole $90.00 himself, in fact it is factored into his club dues. However if one cannot afford the hobby then one ought not be in it, not expect the cost to be reduced for them. I loke polo but cannot afford the horse, I like playing golf at a private country club but cannot afford the membership so are they too expensive and give me a discount? HELL NO!!! Free market economy says do what you can aford and if you cannot then do something about your income or expenses. I want a Lambourghini too, should they sell it to me for the price of a hyundai?
Bottom line $300.00 is not that much money at all. Most people will spend more than that in gas going to the field this year. Oh and another economic tid bit using the $310.00 number equates to .85 cents per day. Less than a cup of coffee, 3 times less than a gallon of gas, the same as one donut, less than a candy bar or soda. What should he give up,ummm.....85 cents a day if he pays the whole thing himself.

_____________________________

"I haven't Forgotten"

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 7

RE: I suggest a name change from AMA to FEE - 3/11/2008 3:17:16 AM   
Mode One


 

Posts: 2228
Joined: 5/4/2005
From: Park Rapids, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Two clubs, two fun flys, advertizements and dues, You've made it sound like it's all coming out of your pocket! Yes, it costs some money to do what your clubs are wanting to do. Should it be free?


_____________________________

Mode One, AMA 59157

(in reply to SSRCCPREZ)
       Post #: 8

RE: I suggest a name change from AMA to FEE - 3/11/2008 5:12:22 AM   
Hossfly



Posts: 3925
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: New Caney, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mscic-RCU

I am president of two clubs in our area. Both clubs sponsor fly-in's and the cost for the charter, sanctioning and advertising is getting ridiculous. It costs $90 to charter a club, $20 for the sanction fee and if you want one of those small box ads, that costs $45 per month. So in one night our clubs spent $310 in fees to the AMA. Then add another $58 for our annual dues, whew, it seems like it never stops. If i didn't like the smell of burnt castor oil in the AM, I just might consider going to park flyers!!


http://www.modelaircraft.org/PDF-files/clubkit.pdf
AMA Charter fees: Charter fee; $30.00 2) Certificate of Insurance for flying site owners
Regular wording $60.00 Special Wording $80.00 -- OPTIONAL

As part of your event an event listing will appear in “Contest Calendar” both in Model Aviation magazine and on the AMA web site. This listing is free and automatic as part of your sanctioned event.

Supplemental (Display) Ad Information OPTIONAL
club-sponsored non-flying events only. These sizes listed under “SIZE” are the only sizes that will be accepted to be published in the “Contest Calendar.”
FEES: Fees are based on ad size.
AD POLICY
SIZE: 1 5/8 inch wide and either 1 1/2 or 2 1/4 inches high. These are the only sizes accepted.
PRICING: 1 1/2 - $35 , 2 1/4 - $45 for each issue the ad runs in (payable in advance).


Therefore, mscic-RCU, IMO your information is one-sided and can be related to any OPTIONAL add-on. If you want the high-priced spread, you have to pay the high price. For $30.00 you can get an event sanction and a listing in the mag. Additional services cost more. My money says you do the same in your own business.

Your personal dues money has nothing to do with the club's expenses.


_____________________________

Horrace Cain. AMA Life L-93, Leader and CD for 45 years
Christian TEXAN American Heterosexual PRO-GUN Conservative: Any Questions?

(in reply to mscic-RCU)
       Post #: 9

RE: I suggest a name change from AMA to FEE - 3/13/2008 12:29:38 PM   
propbuster



Posts: 1058
Joined: 10/6/2003
From: Black Mtn, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: -pkh-

I agree with SSRCPREZ, the AMA fees aren't that high, IMO.

$90 a year for the charter is not much compared to what my clubs pay for the lease on their properties. If you can't raise enough money from your sanctioned events to more than cover your sanction fee and advertising costs, then stop having sanctioned events and/or stop advertising in MA.

There is a club up on Long Island called the LI Tomcats who pay $10,000 a year lease. The dues are $200 per member!

_____________________________

Never run out of Altitude, Airspeed or Ideas all at the same time.
http://blueridgeaeroworks.blogspot.com/

(in reply to -pkh-)
       Post #: 10

RE: I suggest a name change from AMA to FEE - 3/13/2008 5:30:13 PM   
KidEpoxy



Posts: 3572
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		SSRC,
if $300 is not a lot of money,
then you'd have no problem mailing me just $100... you probably wont even notice it being gone. Tell you what, I'll even send you a SASE and you can stuff a $50 in without batting an eye. Under your justification, it is ok to spend money without consideration of its return, as long as it aint a lot of money... so since you keep saying $300 is hardly of note then $50 is just 1 donut a week.

We live in the times of $50 engines $75 ARFs $130 radiosets
And some of us still fly basla, glue, & cox049 in the park

The hobby is not expensive.
Clubbing can get expensive, and blames the hobby.
However, there are plenty of clubs that are not expensive, just as there are other insurers than Muncie.


_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to SSRCCPREZ)
       Post #: 11

RE: I suggest a name change from AMA to FEE - 3/13/2008 6:26:34 PM   
STLPilot


 

Posts: 9237
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
if $300 is not a lot of money,
then you'd have no problem mailing me just $100... you probably wont even notice it being gone.
Actually he would only have to mail your $2, that was his point. You got 1 guy coming in here talking about a fee burden, which he holds only a fraction thereof.

The most the AMA costs to members is $58 per year and $60 for a charter, which is split between the clubs. Anything above that is fees you can only wish to incur. If you think $58 and a fraction of $60 makes the AMA fee heavy, you really need to find a more less expensie luxury.


_____________________________

Here At The Wall

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 12

RE: I suggest a name change from AMA to FEE - 3/13/2008 7:26:43 PM   
SSRCCPREZ



Posts: 462
Joined: 10/23/2004
From: MAnsfield, MA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

SSRC,
if $300 is not a lot of money,
then you'd have no problem mailing me just $100... you probably wont even notice it being gone. Tell you what, I'll even send you a SASE and you can stuff a $50 in without batting an eye. Under your justification, it is ok to spend money without consideration of its return, as long as it aint a lot of money... so since you keep saying $300 is hardly of note then $50 is just 1 donut a week.

We live in the times of $50 engines $75 ARFs $130 radiosets
And some of us still fly basla, glue, & cox049 in the park

The hobby is not expensive.
Clubbing can get expensive, and blames the hobby.
However, there are plenty of clubs that are not expensive, just as there are other insurers than Muncie.




Kidepoxy,
I go back to that if the hobby is too expensive for your income, than you either raise your income or do not participate in the hobby. Lower the river or raise the bridge. Like I also stated, this holds true with houses cars foods and everything else. Not everyone can afford everyhting they want to do. I play at a private golf course, not everyone who enjoys playing golf can afford the clubs I play with or the club I play at. That does not mean that the membership should be discounted or that my Pings should be reduced in cost so EVERYONE can do it. you gotta pay to play and you gotta pay to fly.

Lastly the premise of it being $300.00 was false, he was not doing the division....so your argument is flawed, oh and as for sending you money...I give to enough charities, but thanks..

_____________________________

"I haven't Forgotten"

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 13

RE: I suggest a name change from AMA to FEE - 3/13/2008 7:28:03 PM   
P-51B



Posts: 6173
Joined: 10/11/2002
From: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot

If you think $58 and a fraction of $60 makes the AMA fee heavy, you really need to find a more less expensie luxury.




There goes the PPP...

_____________________________

In order to think "outside the box", one must first accept there IS a box.

(in reply to STLPilot)
       Post #: 14

RE: I suggest a name change from AMA to FEE - 3/19/2008 5:18:19 PM   
RCKen



Posts: 15016
Joined: 7/10/2002
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Status: online 		Ok guys. I've had to go in and remove several posts because they were more comments about the person posting and not about the