EADS tanker (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more] >> [Full Scale planes, cars, helis, boats] >> Airplanes - Full Scale



Message


dirtybird -> EADS tanker (3/13/2008 5:18:32 PM)

They awarded the 40B contract to build new air tankers to Air Bus.
40B of our taxpayer dollars to a country that does not support us in IRAC.
40B of our taxpayer dollars to a country that pulled out of Viet Nam and left us holding the bag after we tried to help them.
40B of our taxpayer dollars to a country that we rescued twice from Germany and now treats us like scum.
40B of our taxpayer dollars to a company that sells the latest arms to our enemies.
As a retired Boeing employee I am disappointed.
As an American citizen I am outraged.
Richard H. Kelly




nzak -> RE: EADS tanker (3/13/2008 5:54:00 PM)

I agree, maybe we should outsource our politicians jobs to foreign countries as well??
See how they like that...




normgoyer -> RE: EADS tanker (3/13/2008 6:25:24 PM)

It appears that there are two sides to the story and Boeing isn't exatly blameless. Norm




nzak -> RE: EADS tanker (3/13/2008 6:44:20 PM)

Sure Boeing isn't completely blameless, but as I understand it, McCain was the one who brought it into the open. I also understand that several people working on his campaign were former lobbyists for EADS? Is that information correct???




normgoyer -> RE: EADS tanker (3/13/2008 7:00:13 PM)

I am not sure, I have friends in the Boeing network and the scuttlebutt is that a very poor proposal was made using obsolete info. I also think that this contract will be revoked, if the pols are smart, and sometimes we wonder about that fact, they will rethink this. Norm




oldvet70 -> RE: EADS tanker (3/13/2008 7:13:49 PM)

Boeing isn't completely blameless is an understatement. Boeing Executives went to jail because of what they did in the past. As a Veteran I have no love of the French. But I detest criminals, especially in the Defense industry. You need to blame them. They cost us these jobs and money.




normgoyer -> RE: EADS tanker (3/13/2008 7:19:58 PM)

Got a whole bunch of kids and grandkids living in Grants Pass, Norm

I agree about the French and I am one.




nzak -> RE: EADS tanker (3/13/2008 7:22:04 PM)

I definitely blame them for the whole mess in the first place! I think they should get some used 767's and retrofit them and save us tax payers even more $$$$$$$$$




GerKonig -> RE: EADS tanker (3/13/2008 7:26:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nzak

Sure Boeing isn't completely blameless, but as I understand it, McCain was the one who brought it into the open. I also understand that several people working on his campaign were former lobbyists for EADS? Is that information correct???


Your information is correct. People in his campaign were lobbyist for EADS.

Gerry




nzak -> RE: EADS tanker (3/13/2008 7:29:58 PM)

I think its time we Americans stood up and took our country back before our 'elected' officials finish giving it away




dirtybird -> RE: EADS tanker (3/13/2008 7:43:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nzak

I definitely blame them for the whole mess in the first place! I think they should get some used 767's and retrofit them and save us tax payers even more $$$$$$$$$


This was Boeings proposal in the first place. There are lots of used 767,747, and 757's sitting around.
I agree there was hanky panky in the top management. Those people were sent to jail or have resigned. The people that make the airplanes were not to blame.
Shall we punish the people of the state of NY because their governor likes to hire hookers?

Also check this out:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080313/ap_on_bi_ge/diving_dollar




oldvet70 -> RE: EADS tanker (3/13/2008 8:59:00 PM)

Unfortunately the people who make the planes do not bid the contracts. Their loss is caused by Boeing and no one else. It would not surprise me to see this contract changed on appeal. But blaming anyone but the top people at Boeing for this mess is rather like blaming flies for garbage.




dirtybird -> RE: EADS tanker (3/14/2008 4:40:55 PM)

To those that think the Boeing Co. got what they deserved consider this:
To Boeing this contract is a drop in the bucket. Its only one airplane per month compared to 40 times that for their commercial operations.
In fact they would probably be better off concentrating on getting the delayed 787 out.
Its a labor intensive contract. Lots of little people will lose their jobs to the French.
That's what enrages me.




Stew99 -> RE: EADS tanker (3/14/2008 5:08:51 PM)

This is from an interview with Ron Sugar, Northrop Grumman Chairman and CEO, on FOX News yesterday:

"There is a lot of controversy about our use of Airbus as an airframe supplier. Frankly, I’m shocked at the amount of misinformation being discussed in the halls of Congress and in the press. To set the record straight: Northrop Grumman is the prime contractor, a top-tier American firm that builds the B-2 Stealth Bomber, America’s nuclear aircraft carriers and the Global Hawk. Our team will create or support 48,000 new jobs in America—in 49 states. No U.S. workers will be fired because we are building new tankers. On the contrary, our win will contribute to development of a new U.S. Aerospace corridor being created in the Southeast."


This is from the Seattle Times:

Japan's share of the Dreamliner

Three Japanese industrial giants build and co-design 35 percent of the 787. They deliver most of the 787's center section and are now manufacturing the massive composite plastic pieces in Nagoya, two hours southwest of Tokyo by bullet train.

The Japanese government provides loans to finance the development project estimated at up to $2 billion.

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries builds the main piece of the 114-foot-long 787 wing and attaches the fixed trailing edge built by Kawasaki and the fixed leading edge built by Spirit AeroSystems in Tulsa, Okla. The two big wing sections delivered to Everett together weigh about 25 tons.

Kawasaki Heavy Industries builds the fixed trailing edge of the 787 wing, which it delivers to Mitsubishi. Kawasaki also builds the barrel-shaped, single-piece fuselage section just forward of the wings. The fuselage section, weighing about 5 tons, goes to Global Aeronautica in Charleston, S.C., for assembly.

Fuji Heavy Industries (better known as the maker of Subaru autos) builds the 787's "center wing box," the load-bearing structure in the lower central fuselage that holds the wings. The Fuji part, delivered to Charleston, S.C., weighs almost 10 tons.

Source: Boeing





dirtybird -> RE: EADS tanker (3/14/2008 6:50:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stew99

This is from an interview with Ron Sugar, Northrop Grumman Chairman and CEO, on FOX News yesterday:

"There is a lot of controversy about our use of Airbus as an airframe supplier. Frankly, I’m shocked at the amount of misinformation being discussed in the halls of Congress and in the press. To set the record straight: Northrop Grumman is the prime contractor, a top-tier American firm that builds the B-2 Stealth Bomber, America’s nuclear aircraft carriers and the Global Hawk. Our team will create or support 48,000 new jobs in America—in 49 states. No U.S. workers will be fired because we are building new tankers. On the contrary, our win will contribute to development of a new U.S. Aerospace corridor being created in the Southeast."


This is from the Seattle Times:

Japan's share of the Dreamliner

Three Japanese industrial giants build and co-design 35 percent of the 787. They deliver most of the 787's center section and are now manufacturing the massive composite plastic pieces in Nagoya, two hours southwest of Tokyo by bullet train.

The Japanese government provides loans to finance the development project estimated at up to $2 billion.

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries builds the main piece of the 114-foot-long 787 wing and attaches the fixed trailing edge built by Kawasaki and the fixed leading edge built by Spirit AeroSystems in Tulsa, Okla. The two big wing sections delivered to Everett together weigh about 25 tons.

Kawasaki Heavy Industries builds the fixed trailing edge of the 787 wing, which it delivers to Mitsubishi. Kawasaki also builds the barrel-shaped, single-piece fuselage section just forward of the wings. The fuselage section, weighing about 5 tons, goes to Global Aeronautica in Charleston, S.C., for assembly.

Fuji Heavy Industries (better known as the maker of Subaru autos) builds the 787's "center wing box," the load-bearing structure in the lower central fuselage that holds the wings. The Fuji part, delivered to Charleston, S.C., weighs almost 10 tons.

Source: Boeing




In the begining NG said 23,000 jobs would be created. Now its up to 48,000. How come?
No jobs will be lost? Tell that to my neighbor that has received his notice.
Yes the Japanese are building a lot of the 787. The last I heard they also had troops in Irac. Maybe they have gone home by now. They have also bought 767 tankers.
NG is the prime contractor for the B2 but a lot of it was built by Boeing. In fact I think Boeng built more than NG.
So they build great aircraft carriers. Have they built an aircraft tanker?




oldvet70 -> RE: EADS tanker (3/14/2008 6:55:39 PM)

The Japanese left Iraq after cutting a deal with the enemy to get some Japanese hostages released.




dirtybird -> RE: EADS tanker (3/15/2008 5:47:12 PM)

Some more info.

Boeing unveils case against USAF decision to buy Airbus tanker
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/03/14/222217/boeing-unveils-case-against-usaf-decision-to-buy-airbus.html

Opinion: Boeing and the tanker mess
http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=206903715

I am thinking we should cancel the whole thing and make those fat a$$ generals make do with what they have. They still fly the B52 and its older than the tankers.




jgraham10 -> RE: EADS tanker (3/17/2008 4:22:57 AM)

The Tankers are about the same age as the Buffs. Both came about around the same time frame as the buff but the KC-135 has alot more flight hours on the airframe than the Buff does. This airplane flies every single day refueling our fighters, bombers, cargo aircraft, it is the true back bone of the Air Force and needs to be replaced. Would be nice if we could just set on our ass and make do with what we have but in these times this airplane much like the C-130 gunship is used much more than was designed for and its life is very limited.
We are lucky that we have not had a few of these aircraft crash or come apart. I personally stand up and give praise to those that are serving our country in this time frame and I'm amazed that they are able to get things down with what they are given. Granted the airplane has been re-engined and upgraded but the airframe still has the hours on it and that is what needs to be replaced.

"On 15 July 1954, Boeing's famous Model 367-80 prototype took to the air for the first time. The four-jet, swept-wing transport provided the basis for the prolific Model 707 civil airliner and Model 717 (C-135) tanker/transport families."
http://www.theaviationzone.com/factsheets/kc135.asp

The deal is that these would not be used and refurbished aircraft but new aircraft with zero hours on them. The 767 line is winding down and I believe from what I have read in the trade mags that there is about 3-4 years left of civiallin orders left on the line before it is shut down. So without these aircraft alot of persons could lose their jobs in the Seattle area.

If you look at the state of the aircraft industry today you will not find a player in the market that does not out source work. Everyone from Boeing, Airbus, Bombardier, Etc. The all have factories or sub-assy's built all over the world. The biggest and scariest is China as they really want to be a major player and build an aircraft from start to finish and they will in a few years as they are getting alot of deals from major players that will put them in the driver seat.

MHI (Japan) is getting ready to build a commuter aircraft with investment from Toyota. The will be getting into the market competing with Bombardier and Embraer. They have told Bombardier to go to other sources for parts as they were and still are a major supplier for them on a number of models which did include their Regional Jets. It is a golbal world in the aircraft industry and anyone that says it is not has blinders on. The only ones that will make money from this deal are the Major Contractor (Northurp or Boeing) and who ever wins the support contract because that is were the money is in the aircraft biz.

So to just cancel the contract because of those fat a$$ Generals really only hurts those that work on the aircraft and causes them more issues that they have to put up with.
John

quote:

ORIGINAL: dirtybird

Some more info.

Boeing unveils case against USAF decision to buy Airbus tanker
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/03/14/222217/boeing-unveils-case-against-usaf-decision-to-buy-airbus.html

Opinion: Boeing and the tanker mess
http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=206903715

I am thinking we should cancel the whole thing and make those fat a$$ generals make do with what they have. They still fly the B52 and its older than the tankers.





Page: [1]

Valid CSS!




SITE MAP!   : :   FORUM RULES

© 2001 - 2007 24-7 RC, LLC, all rights reserved.
0.515625