Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions/semi-build thread? (Full Version)

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mesaflyer -> Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions/semi-build thread? (3/14/2008 5:19:27 AM)

Hello Everyone,
I have started to build my second kit (fifth plane) tonight, the Top Flight Sea Fury. There doesn't seem to be to much current info on here about this kit. I have read pretty much all of the threads on here involving this plane/kit. I have read the manual, twice. I don't see any problems building the fin/rudder and stab/elevator. But, I do see a few questions coming up that I would like to get some help on. Mostly, they are general building questions, I think. For example, on page 21 ( mounting the retracts) after installing the retract rails it says "for additional strength, add .....Fiberglass". Where exactly do I add the fiberglass? I know how, just not sure where. And on page 22 it talks about adding 3/4 oz cloth and epoxy to the inside surface of the sheeting of the wheel well area. I can do this, but was wondering, since I am planning on glassing and painting this plane, do I need the glass on the inside? I will probably have a few more questions later on, but most of the build seems pretty cut and dry. I like the instructions, lots of detail. I will be building the flaps and cockpit kit, but not trying to make this any where near a scale plane. That is WAY out of my league. Wasn't planning on doing a build thread, as I might be a little slow, but if some of you are interested, I can take some pictures and post them. Oh, and if I just have general build questions, should I ask them here or is there a better/different forum?
Thanks,
Pete



jeffk464 -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (3/14/2008 8:19:19 AM)

I have had trouble with my top flite mustang's retracts being ripped out of the wing. For this to happen the wing sheeting has to be ripped apart, so I think a lot of the strength is in the sheeting. If I were building my mustang again I would definitely glass the sheeting around the retract area, it might have saved me a whole lot of time in repairs. One more suggestion, you might want to use polycrilic instead of epoxy.



greyfoxx -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (3/14/2008 12:56:51 PM)

Mesaflyer - I've got one of these kits also. I probably won't get to build it this year, but perhaps a project for next year (I build slowly), but I am definitely interested in your experiences with this kit and would appreciate your sharing any information you have on potential problems in your build and will certainly try to keep up with your experiences with it seeing as how I have found that, "Experience is a hard teacher, always giving the test first, and the lesson some time later!"

Thanks,

Phillip



Scott G -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (3/14/2008 8:30:33 PM)

I have one of this I build a two years ago.

As far as the retract reinforcement, I think they might be referring to making re-enforcing fillets with epoxy and milled fiberglass mixed up. You can apply it where the beams meet the ribs. Just make sure you don't let it get into places that will interfere with the retract bodies. Also, make sure your two beams are on the same plane. If they are not they will tweak the retract bodies when you tighten the screws and potentially make your gear less reliable.

I would add the extra fiberglass to the inside of the bays. By the time you get the ribs cut away to clear the wheels there will be very little support to keep the sheeting strong. The 3/4 oz fiberglass and epoxy is not going to add an appreciable amount of weight given that it will only be in three rib bays on each wing. When you apply it scrape the excess epoxy off the glass after each coat. I don't think I would bother with more that two coats.

I covered mine with Monokote and it came out at 10.25 lbs. I have seen them fly well all the way up to 13lbs.

scott.



mesaflyer -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (3/15/2008 1:58:06 AM)

jeffk464,
Thanks for the tip. I will glass the interior. I figured I'll use Z-poxy. I have a little experience with it. As for the polycrylic, are you refering to the exterior? I saw a thread somewhere were the guy used 6 coats, brushed on with a foam brush if I'm not mistaken. It looked pretty good. I was wondering about that. I have another plane that I am going to practice on before I get to this one.

Phillip,
No problem, if I have any problems, I will just keep adding to this thread. And I will keep asking questions here.

Scott,
I think I follow you on the milled fiberglass mixture. Just mix it up and spread it around where the rails attach to the wings. And thanks for the tip on the rails being on the same plane.

Thanks,
Pete



mesaflyer -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (3/15/2008 2:09:34 AM)

So much for the fin/rudder build being cut and dry. There is a part called the "upper stab saddle" (it's just a little 1/8 balsa sheeting die cut part) on the plans and in the kit. It's not mentioned in the instructions, because the manual shows a picture of the rudder skin cut away to match the top os the stab, instead of adding the USS. I cut mine like the picture in the manual. If I need to trim it later, I can. That's about all for today. This is going to take me some time to build. But, this building thing is kinda of fun. What's wrong with me! Had my wife go out and buy me a scroll saw. She came in the hobby room and saw the plans for this plane and said "Oh my God, what were you thinking!" I then reminded her that she bought me the plane for Christmas.



Corsair 29 -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (3/16/2008 1:38:26 AM)

I'm with you on that too, I just followed the pics of the vertical stab in the manual. I made a template out of clear plastic to use on the skins. worked out well. here are some pics.

good luck on your build.



jeffk464 -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (3/16/2008 2:03:05 AM)

Polycrilic is suppose to give a much lighter finish then epoxy and is easier to work with. One issue with polycrilic is that it goes on thin and takes a lot of coats to fill the weave unless you add a filler like talc on the second coat. Epoxy will give you a stronger finish at a higher weight and I think will go on with one coat. Do a search and you will find a lot of discussions comparing the two.



mesaflyer -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (3/17/2008 7:35:42 PM)

Corsair 29
Thanks for the pics. I figure that I would make some kind of template when I was finished with stab.

jeffk464
Thansk for the info. I will check that out.



jeffk464 -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (3/17/2008 9:31:11 PM)

One more thing, this particular top flite kit likes to have an engine with some grunt.



Scott G -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (3/18/2008 4:51:14 AM)

As far as engines, I'm happy with how mine performs on a Saito 1.00 with a 15x6 APC. I fly at sea level and it seems to have plenty of pep for me, but I have seen these built with 1.80's as well.

As for the polycrylic I used it for the first time on a Lancaster I'm building. I have never done an entire airframe with resin. When it came time to glass the Lanc resin just seemed like a pain in the butt by comparison. Small areas like the wheel wells on my 'Fury are an exception.

Lanc build

The glassing starts on post #47.

scott.



bigtim -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (3/18/2008 6:38:53 AM)

I have done 2 top flight kits using Varathane Diamond,water based poly, its easy and has low odor,and can be recoated in as soon as 1hour without sanding between coats.

after sealing the wood with laquer sanding sealer,I then applied 4 coats of the poly over .56oz glass,then a light sanding then 2 more and its done,very light and strong,
the diamond is a furnature and floor finish and when dry its really hard and sands smooth,I didn't need any filler for the weave to get the surface smooth after the light sanding the last coats were slick.
I then painted with www.warbirdcolors.com water based paint,a great combo if you want to go with water based products,I like the clean up with water,instead of having to deal with solvents,other than the sanding sealer which stinks to high heaven,I am looking for a alternative for that one as well.

on both these kits the insignias and markings were made by Gary from www.getstencils.com very easy to use,as well as the end results were what I wanted a painted plane.

I am really pleased with the results of all the water based products, the paint is also fuel proof to 15% nitro.



jeffk464 -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (3/18/2008 7:16:17 AM)

I really need to build a spitfire, that looks great. Even my mustang likes spitfires :).

I noticed that when I used the sanding sealer it raised the grain in the wood and made it rough. To fix this I just did a quick sanding job before I applied the fiberglass cloth.



mesaflyer -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (3/18/2008 7:26:38 AM)

Thanks guys for the replys. Haven't been able to do much work on the plane. I have been sick with what I thought was a BAD cold, but after going to the hospital yesterday, turns out I have pnumonia (not sure if thats spelled correct, know it starts with a P). Better now, just tired, and will be off work for the week, so should be able to get a few things completed.
As for engines, just started looking. But since I see that alot of nose weight is needed, I was thinking about the OS FS-120 Surpass III. It's alot of money, but seems like it has good power, and with 35.3oz, it will add some nose weight.
Scott,
Thanks for the link your Lancaster build. I have marked that as a favorite. Little too tired to read it right now, but I will. It looks like a nice plane you have built there!
bigtim,
I have been looking at the warbird colors, but still haven't decided on the color scheem. Have a few months to decide. I have been reading the thread (off and on) where you were giving some pointers on their product. I am pretty sure I am going to try that paint, as there are a few warbirds that I want to build. I might even try my hand at panel lines with this one.

A couple questions, to you both, if you don't mind. What did you use to apply the poly? I know that I have seem somebody apply it with a foam brush. Also, when applying the glass to the wing (or any area), I have seen in some pictures that you use a piece bigger than the wing and do one side at a time. Do you wrap it around a little and then trim it? Then when you do the other side, do you over lap, or butt up next to the first piece of glass?

Thanks,
Pete



Scott G -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (3/18/2008 4:02:17 PM)

For the application I used a one inch watercolor brush that I got at a local art store. It wasn't cheap but it's really nice and if you take care of it it will last a long time. I used the same brush dry to help lay down the fiberglass before wetting it with the poly.

For the seams you want to cut enough oversize so that you can overlap the top and bottom piece by about 3/8-1/2 of an inch. On smaller parts like ailerons the overlap is much smaller. This doubling of material will not show up in the final product as the glass is very thin and can be sanded smooth easily.

scott.



mesaflyer -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (3/21/2008 3:58:05 AM)

Well, finally was able to get some more work done.
My mistake on those "upper stab saddles" (USS). I totally missed it in the manual. It says to install them to the inside of the rudder skins ( it should say inside of "fin" ) and rib V2. Then trim the fin (they got it right there) skins to match. And I read the manual twice[X(].

Thanks for the pointers on the poly. I am a few months away from glassing at best, so plenty of time to research. I will try out some different application methods on some various scrap balsa sheeting when the time comes.

The manual has a few small mistakes, such as the paragraph on installing the USS. One thing that had me re-reading the manual was the sheeting for the fin/rudder and the stab/elevator. The very first thing the manual says to do is to make 3 sets of skins. To make a long story short, the manual says to use the "second" balsa sheet twice. Not a big deal, I figured it out. This being my second kit, I will just have to make sure that I take it slow and double check everthing.



mesaflyer -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (3/21/2008 4:04:46 AM)

bigtim
That is one nice spitfire. I definately want one!

Where do you guys get your glass from, and what "size?" works best, or does it depend upon the application?

Just noticed something else on that spit and it reminded me of something.
The Sea Fury has the plastic air intakes on the front of the wings, as well as the "gun blisters" on top. What is the best way to apply those? Do I install them and fiberglass up to them? Glass over them ( I hope not )? Glass and then install them? I have read that one guy had a problem with the air intakes cracking. I have thought about making some out of balsa, but would definately add some weight, but the weight would be front of the CG. Just not sure. Throwing out ideas. Any suggestions are welcome.
Pete



bigtim -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (3/21/2008 7:14:37 AM)

hey pete hope your felling better that flu has been getting around.
first when I applied the fiberglass I used a new poly paint brush 2" so I could get some spread rate from the poly I do alot of painting so I was comfortable using a larger size,I could have gone bigger after I layed the glass down but I had a dedicated clean brush so I went with it.
having alot of expierence using paint supplies the foam brush works well enough but doesn't hold much material so you have to dip it a bunch I would go with a high quality paint brush instead the one I used was about 12$ or so.

as for laying down the cloth I did a 1/2 to 1" overlap,just letting it hang over the edge of the surface of the wing not wrapping it just letting it hang, after applying 2 coats of poly and letting it dry,I used 120grit sand paper to trim the cloth from the edges,the glass is so thin it literally wipes away from the edge doing the bottom of the surface first( whatever it is,wing ,rudder,elevator,etc..)I then did the top the poly seals the edges as long as you sand the bottom surface tight to the edge,you will know what I mean when you do it.
I used .56oz glass its a little lighter than the .75oz and the weight difference didn't matter much to me,so I went for the lighter one,I got it from my LHS they ordered it for me in 2yrd packages,it takes 2 packages to do a TF model with a little to spare as long as your not to waistfull.

as for the gun blisters and plastic parts I glassed first, then used med.CA to glue them down,not sparingly,then Bondo red spot putty to blend the edges.
one thing I did was to sand the plastic edges to a taper so there wasn't much of a edge to fill,leaving a small perch to glue to, they seem to be holding tight.
some of the smaller parts like the cooling fins on my P-47 I left hardly any plastic at all but for larger plastic parts a 1/16 edge worked out well for me.
after filling and sanding I primered the whole area that had the plastic part for a extra layer before painting with my finish coats,using a light 320grit paper for any fine tuning if necessary.
I got to tell ya I am a slow builder with all the duity's of fatherhood and with the greatest of intentions it still takes me a yr and a half to get one of these kits done to my likeing,after a couple of months of building I get distracted and set it down for a bit,only to realize it aint getting done by its self[;)].
I finally got the plumbing done correctly for my fuel system today,button up a couple of details,like my remote glow igniter location,and my sons initials on the fuse and its maiden time for my jug, and my next project awaits,my FW A8 ,and P-51C choices,choices[:)]



bigtim -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (3/21/2008 7:24:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mesaflyer

bigtim
That is one nice spitfire. I definately want one.
Pete

thanks it was a long haul to the finish line for that one, since I built a couple of planes durring the construction process, at 11lbs it is pretty heavy these warbirds have me hooked I wish the wind and weather would mellow out, I need some flight days the sim just isn't the same.



mesaflyer -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (3/21/2008 5:38:59 PM)

bigtim,
Thanks a lot for your reply. This REALLY helps. Finally got out of the house yesterday. This laying around sucks[:(]. I am real comfortable using a brush. I am not a master paint and finish guy, but I have done a lot different types of painting, staining, and finish work. I have even painted automotive on trailers and light equipment. But that was many moons ago, and as you know, a lot has changed in the way of materials. I presume that you are using the WBC primer on the plastic parts as well as the rest of the plane? I have a .46 mustang that had a minor mishap. I am planning on using it to get past the learning curve of finish work.
I hear ya on the "duties of fatherhood". Family has to come first.
To make a long story really short, I wanted to teach myself how to fly to pass the time when we go camping/motorcycle riding. So, my wife bought me a Nexstar RTF for Easter last year. That was all I was ever going to own. Now, the Sea Fury is my fifth plane, second kit, and I want to build every 60 size Top Flight warbird kit. She created a monster! The good thing is I really like building from the kits. It is teaching me patience.
I know what you mean about wanting fly. Due to varius reasons, my son and I haven't been able to get out for a few months.
Hope your maiden goes well with that P-47. It is a nice looking plane, and I would be willing to bet that the pictures don't do it any justice.
Good luck, have fun, and thanks again.
Pete



bigtim -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (3/22/2008 10:18:19 PM)

here's a good source of information for finish,and construction tips http://www.tompierce.net/190/index.htm his SBD Dauntless build inspired me to go with the WB poly glassing method the thread is a very detailed documentation on his methods.



mesaflyer -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (3/23/2008 4:56:26 AM)

bigtim,
Thanks a lot for the link. It will be a big help.
Pete



mesaflyer -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (4/5/2008 6:59:56 PM)

Well, I'm back. Here are pictures of the finsihed fin/rudder and stab/elevator. Built per plan, but I still need to detail the fin sheetnig when it comes time to attach to the elevator. Also started on the wing, pic attached. Guess I'll post some progress pictures from time to time. I'm kinda slow, but I will finish someday. Had a interesting thing happen when I glued to balsa and basswood spar pieces together. One of them bowed a little, and I didn't notice until it was time to install it. Had to use some weight when glueing the sheer webs. Should be ok. And sanding those stab and rudder tips is.....well it sucks. I finally got out my palm sander and rough sanded them to about 1/8" from finish. Just have to be REAL carefull not to go to far, but saved some elbow grease. Until next time.........................



mesaflyer -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (4/6/2008 4:02:23 PM)

To make a long story short, because of the mail man, I won't be getteing my retracts for a few weeks. So I decided to start on the wing end sections. The instructions say to build the center, then the left, and then the right sections. Should probably build them all at the same time anyway, since I have the room. This is funny, in case you can't read the picture, it's from the plans. It says "RIGHT WING PANEL", and then says "top view of the left wing panel". You would think sombody would have fixed this by now. No big deal though.



mesaflyer -> RE: Top Flight Sea Fury 60 Kit Questions (5/12/2008 2:21:08 AM)

OK...The wing tips are complete. The center wing section is as far as I can go until I get my retracts. Pretty much just a straight forward build. One bobo I made was to put masking tape on the aileron servos to protect them when epoxying the mounting blocks in place. It protected the servos, but was a little tough to remove the servo after the epoxy dried. Next time, I won't use so much tape! Decided to get started on the fuselage. It's going pretty good. On page 36, #8 has a note that some of the formers in the pictures are different than the ones in the kit. When I got to page 38, #1, it says to glue former F3D to the front of former F3B. Well, the picture in the manual and the plans don't show much of anything. When I held them in place, the notch did not line up with the fuselage side piece. I tried it every which way I could. So I decided to enlarge the notch on both F3Ds a little and eveything seemed to line up. Not a big deal. The picture shows one F3D as "stock" and one modified. In the picture with the clamps, the parts are not glued, it's just for comparison. I am going to keep working on the fuselage until my retracts get here. It's kinda nice to take a break from the wing[8|]. And I want to build 1/5 Corsair next, what am I thinking! But I will say one thing, I am really starting to like this kit building gig, almost as much as flying, almost.
Tried to upload the pictures, may have to split them up.



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