RE: New Saito 115 at Horizon

RE: New Saito 115 at Horizon
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RE: New Saito 115 at Horizon - 4/19/2008 12:59:42 PM

Chancho

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From: Farmington hills , MI, USA
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Of course not a real jet engine, but those hopped up Jett-brand 2 strokes.

http://www.jettengineering.com/

I don't know if it could happen, but it would be nice to see a 4-stroke beat out the 2-strokes in it's class. And the FA100 - FA115 should dust a 75 2 stroke with regards to weight and torque

(in reply to liquid_TR)

Post #: 26

RE: New Saito 115 at Horizon - 4/19/2008 6:09:34 PM

liquid_TR

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From: ISTANBUL, TURKEY
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Oh I meant Dub Jett's engines as well. - a Saito 90-100-115-125, maybe even a 150 has no chance against a Sport Jett 90 turning an apc 10x10 at 16k rpm..

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LiQuid TR

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Post #: 27

RE: New Saito 115 at Horizon - 4/19/2008 7:17:10 PM

Chancho

Posts: 31
Joined: 8/31/2007
From: Farmington hills , MI, USA
Status: offline

Not even running %100 Nitro?

It's nice to dream!

This darn hobby is going to cost me a $3500 jet engine soon enough... Especially at the rate I turn over (Nose dive and Figure 9) aircraft.

I just have to tell the Mrs. that we won't be making our mortgage for a few months.

pg

(in reply to liquid_TR)

Post #: 28

RE: New Saito 115 at Horizon - 4/25/2008 4:27:05 PM

bob27s

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From: Cleveland, OH, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: liquid_TR

Oh I meant Dub Jett's engines as well. - a Saito 90-100-115-125, maybe even a 150 has no chance against a Sport Jett 90 turning an apc 10x10 at 16k rpm..

Keep in mind these are very different types of engines differnt prop sizes, different rpm bands.

We know the Jett BSE-100 and BSE-120 were capable of performing with the YS90 and YS110 on the big props.

The 90L is more a 11" - 12" prop engine.

So depending on the aircraft application, a Saito 100 or 115 could perhaps provide superior aircraft performance because it better balances the power/prop/aircraft as a unit.

Something like the Great Planes Little Toni for example... been a good study in comparison in precisely that effect.

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Jett Engineering - Engine Mfg Support Forum Host

(in reply to liquid_TR)

Post #: 29

RE: New Saito 115 at Horizon - 4/25/2008 6:31:38 PM

blw

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From: Auburn, AL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bob27s

Keep in mind these are very different types of engines differnt prop sizes, different rpm bands.

We know the Jett BSE-100 and BSE-120 were capable of performing with the YS90 and YS110 on the big props.

The 90L is more a 11" - 12" prop engine.

So depending on the aircraft application, a Saito 100 or 115 could perhaps provide superior aircraft performance because it better balances the power/prop/aircraft as a unit.

Something like the Great Planes Little Toni for example... been a good study in comparison in precisely that effect.

A lot of information packed into just a few words! I would like to hear more about the Little Toni comparison if you ever have the time, Bob.

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Post #: 30

RE: New Saito 115 at Horizon - 4/25/2008 6:54:47 PM

bob27s

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From: Cleveland, OH, USA
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well.. in a nut shell......
we have seen similar maximum level-flight speeds on the aircraft from it being powered by a Jett 90LX with a 11x8 prop, Jett90L with a 12x6 prop, and also Saito 100 and YS110 4c engines swinging higher pitch 13 and 14" props (13x10, 14x10). A few running the OS91FX with the jett-stream exhaust and 12x8 prop have found very good results too. The application is a difficult engine installation, and took some effort so we could accomodate the muffler system properly - at best it was a compromise. The 4c has an advantage that the exhaust systems are not generally a functional part of the engine's performance. So it demonstrated that the 4c engines, setup properly on the right plane, can achive good speed. No doubt the Saidot 115 will fall into this same category, and probably will be right up there with the YS110.

In contrast, the same was not the result for one individual who attempted to install YS110 power on a Patriot XL. It was quick, but it didnt come close to what the 90LX was capabile of in level flight speed on other near identical aircraft.

I am looking forward to trying the Saito 115 myself. Looks like a well developed product.

_____________________________

Bob Brassell
Jett Engineering - Engine Mfg Support Forum Host

(in reply to blw)

Post #: 31

RE: New Saito 115 at Horizon - 4/25/2008 9:17:08 PM

Ed Cregger

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From: Ringgold, GA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chancho

Of course not a real jet engine, but those hopped up Jett-brand 2 strokes.

http://www.jettengineering.com/

I don't know if it could happen, but it would be nice to see a 4-stroke beat out the 2-strokes in it's class. And the FA100 - FA115 should dust a 75 2 stroke with regards to weight and torque

-

No, it won't happen. <G>

Ed Cregger

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Artisan

"Flying models since the Fifties - I'll get the hang of this yet!!!"

(in reply to Chancho)

Post #: 32

RE: New Saito 115 at Horizon - 4/25/2008 9:21:21 PM

Ed Cregger

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From: Ringgold, GA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bob27s

well.. in a nut shell......
we have seen similar maximum level-flight speeds on the aircraft from it being powered by a Jett 90LX with a 11x8 prop, Jett90L with a 12x6 prop, and also Saito 100 and YS110 4c engines swinging higher pitch 13 and 14" props (13x10, 14x10). A few running the OS91FX with the jett-stream exhaust and 12x8 prop have found very good results too. The application is a difficult engine installation, and took some effort so we could accomodate the muffler system properly - at best it was a compromise. The 4c has an advantage that the exhaust systems are not generally a functional part of the engine's performance. So it demonstrated that the 4c engines, setup properly on the right plane, can achive good speed. No doubt the Saidot 115 will fall into this same category, and probably will be right up there with the YS110.

In contrast, the same was not the result for one individual who attempted to install YS110 power on a Patriot XL. It was quick, but it didnt come close to what the 90LX was capabile of in level flight speed on other near identical aircraft.

I am looking forward to trying the Saito 115 myself. Looks like a well developed product.

As you have stated, pardon my paraphrasing, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

The only "problem" with setting up the four-strokes for high speed is that static thrust suffers greatly. This isn't a problem for someone seeking high top speed, but I've wondered how the model performs during takeoff with the high pitched props that are required. Come to think of it, since such models are usually light and small, there probably isn't a problem. Never mind...<G>

Ed Cregger

Don't mind me folks, I have a bad case of "brick brain syndrome". All the arteries in the brain are clogged with hard plaque. I'm beginning to think that I sound like the County Agent in "Green Acres". 8>

< Message edited by Ed Cregger -- 4/25/2008 9:40:40 PM >

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"Flying models since the Fifties - I'll get the hang of this yet!!!"

(in reply to bob27s)

Post #: 33

RE: New Saito 115 at Horizon - 4/25/2008 9:56:20 PM

Chancho

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From: Farmington hills , MI, USA
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Bob....

I'm really trying to understand what is going on with these 4-strokes vs. the 2 strokes, besides the obvious. I have a Revolver dressed in a Saito 100, spinning a 13x11 APC is beating a Tiger .60 with a Jett tuned pipe. (I apologize as I can't confirm but I think he has an O.S. .90 with a Jett pipe) We were both amazed that I was faster. It took me about 7 props and 30 + flights to find the 13x11. I tried to go with the 13x10, but this particular motor and plane wants to run the 13x11. So it is refreshing to acknowledge with credible data that a 4-stroke can beat out a 2-stroke in certain instances. I've got an onboard speed indicator and am measuring 109 consistently on flats. At the end of the day I am trying to understand how to find that magical combination of power, prop, plane, etc., that so many of you have already mastered...

Ed the engine has plenty of throttle response and power throughout the entire range. The only thing I don't have is the unlimited vertical with the 13x11. I'm sacrificing a small bit of static thrust for speed. Take off can happen easily within 15'. Also, I have the torque on command that if I don't like a particular landing or approach, a few clicks on the throttle and she jumps to the air. Something not so easily done waiting for a 2 stroke to wind up.

The 4 strokes are appealing to me at the moment and especially with our field being under a noise watch. We have to be sensitive to our neighbors. And in regards to noise the 4 stroke running all out sounds beautiful while a 2-stroke sounds something like a French poodle caught in a lawn mower.

With the luck I'm having on the Saito FA100, I'll gladly put my money on the FA115... I think I'm going to have to get one on order and wait for a plane to come along for it. I guess we won't have any solid plane suggestions for this motor until we get test results in?

Thanks for the great posts all and Best Regards,

Phil Green

(in reply to bob27s)

Post #: 34

RE: New Saito 115 at Horizon - 5/6/2008 1:36:11 PM

pnrcomps

Posts: 3
Joined: 5/7/2004
From: norwalk, CT, USA
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what size 3 blade prop would work best with this engine?

(in reply to Chancho)

Post #: 35

RE: New Saito 115 at Horizon - 5/6/2008 2:08:34 PM

Hobbsy

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Joined: 12/2/2001
From: Colonial Beach, VA, USA
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A Graupner 12.5x7, MA 13x8, Graupner 12x8, all should be in the ballpark. A 14x7 3b might be a bit much.

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Post #: 36

RE: New Saito 115 at Horizon - 5/6/2008 2:08:52 PM

Ed Cregger

Posts: 7734
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chancho

Bob....

I'm really trying to understand what is going on with these 4-strokes vs. the 2 strokes, besides the obvious. I have a Revolver dressed in a Saito 100, spinning a 13x11 APC is beating a Tiger .60 with a Jett tuned pipe. (I apologize as I can't confirm but I think he has an O.S. .90 with a Jett pipe) We were both amazed that I was faster. It took me about 7 props and 30 + flights to find the 13x11. I tried to go with the 13x10, but this particular motor and plane wants to run the 13x11. So it is refreshing to acknowledge with credible data that a 4-stroke can beat out a 2-stroke in certain instances. I've got an onboard speed indicator and am measuring 109 consistently on flats. At the end of the day I am trying to understand how to find that magical combination of power, prop, plane, etc., that so many of you have already mastered...

Ed the engine has plenty of throttle response and power throughout the entire range. The only thing I don't have is the unlimited vertical with the 13x11. I'm sacrificing a small bit of static thrust for speed. Take off can happen easily within 15'. Also, I have the torque on command that if I don't like a particular landing or approach, a few clicks on the throttle and she jumps to the air. Something not so easily done waiting for a 2 stroke to wind up.

The 4 strokes are appealing to me at the moment and especially with our field being under a noise watch. We have to be sensitive to our neighbors. And in regards to noise the 4 stroke running all out sounds beautiful while a 2-stroke sounds something like a French poodle caught in a lawn mower.

With the luck I'm having on the Saito FA100, I'll gladly put my money on the FA115... I think I'm going to have to get one on order and wait for a plane to come along for it. I guess we won't have any solid plane suggestions for this motor until we get test results in?

Thanks for the great posts all and Best Regards,

Phil Green

-

You're running nearly twice the displacement of the two-stroke .60, so it isn't surprising that the four-stroke is more powerful.

The OS .91FX isn't a "true .91" in the classic sense (small intake bypass), so the comparison isn't fair. Find the old OS .90FSR, put a pipe on that and be amazed as it stomps the grape juice out of the Saito 1.15, in every respect, low and high rpm performance.

You are correct in that the throttle response of the four-stroke will probably beat the majority of two-strokes. It just comes with the territory.

I'm with you as far as sound goes, most of the time. I do love the sound of a piped two-stroke, but not if it isn't running a muffled tuned pipe. Straight tuned pipes sound irritating to me. But, alas, that is subjective.

I'm not an "either/or" kind of guy. I love both two and four-strokes and am still buying both types in fairly even numbers. Some models beg for a two-stroke engine. Others wouldn't sound right without a demure four-stroke on them. Since YS set up their engines for 20% plus nitro, I don't buy them any longer. The YS four-stroke, even on 5% (0ld days) had a distinctive wap to the exhaust note. That could be acceptable on a delta flying wing or hotrod plane. But, again, that is subjective.

I just try to accept all engines for their good points and install the one that seems right at the time. I don't put down either type of engine, including gasoline/petrol engines of either stroke. I love all engines. Even Ryobi, Homelite and Poulan. <G>

I can't wait to get my latest buy, a Saito 2.20 gasser, up and running and in the air.

Ed Cregger

_____________________________

Artisan

"Flying models since the Fifties - I'll get the hang of this yet!!!"

(in reply to Chancho)

Post #: 37

RE: New Saito 115 at Horizon - 5/6/2008 6:18:28 PM

bob27s

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From: Cleveland, OH, USA
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Sounds like you and your friend are experiencing the balancing act I was speaking of. And that is an excellent example.

Ed also made a good point... you are talking a displacement difference too. It does make a difference.

And as Ed noted, the OS91 is nothing more than an over-grown .61 engine (just like the Jett 90L). Sometimes best used when treated that way.

The other thing with the 4-c is that the muffler system is somewhat "small" no frontal area to deal with from the muffler. A typical 2-c muffler and installation is good for 2-4 sq in of frontal area.

However, it does sound like the Revolver mentioned there with the jett muffler/OS .91 combo needs to experiment with props. If he is not running a 11x10 or 12x8, that would be the first place to start.

_____________________________

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Jett Engineering - Engine Mfg Support Forum Host

(in reply to Chancho)

Post #: 38

RE: New Saito 115 at Horizon - 5/7/2008 1:17:14 PM

Chancho

Posts: 31
Joined: 8/31/2007
From: Farmington hills , MI, USA
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Thanks for the posts Gents, the info here has really helped me understand what's going on with my Saito 100 and 125. I'm having to re-read what you guys are saying a few times and I'm sure it will eventually sink in.

Having just changed to the 125 from the 100 on my Revolver last weekend and after 12 flights, the results were interestin