ZNLine Alliance incidence

ZNLine Alliance incidence
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ZNLine Alliance incidence - 3/26/2008 3:53:11 AM

hezik

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From: , NETHERLANDS
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I recently finished building a ZNLine Alliance.

Setup consists of of a 3M Mintor 170 for engine, Hatori #900 tuned pipe, Futaba 149DP PCM receiver, 2x Futaba BLS 451 brushless servo's for rudder/elevator, 2x Futaba 9150 for ailerons, hitic HS-81MG for throttle, Emcotec BIC and 2xFlightpower 2s1p 800mAh Lipo for power. As you might have noticed on the pictures, i tossed the original BIC casing and made one myself.

Covered it using glassfibre and spraypainted it in color scheme.

However.. I don't really know what to do with the incidence. It's a fixxed wing, but the stab is adjustable. Right now I set it somewhat like this:

What i did.. i placed the plane on a stand so that the main wing has a positive incidence of 0.6 degrees. After this I adjusted stabs to 0 degrees. I'm using a Robart incidence meter with long bar to measure this. Enigine has a down thrust of about 1.5 degrees in this setup.

Is this the correct way to go? I know the fuse originally had markings, however, these are gone after sanding and painting..

RE: ZNLine Alliance incidence - 3/26/2008 4:26:11 AM

Posts: 2377
Joined: 12/30/2001
From: Goodyear, AZ, USA
Status: offline

Good start...it will likley be close.

Alliance CG is around 280-290mm from LE at the root of the wing.

Troy Newman
Team YS

(in reply to hezik)

RE: ZNLine Alliance incidence - 3/26/2008 4:40:48 AM

hezik

Posts: 90
Joined: 8/27/2006
From: , NETHERLANDS
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Are yu sure that it's the leading edge? The wing chord is about 46 cm or rougly in that neigbourhood. That would mean CG would be placed over halfway of wing?

I was having problems getting CG right, had to move batteries forward and still not at required place. Note that the previous owner built the wing (i finished it with glassfibre etc) and he chose to glue the two halves under an angle, allowing for a more aft cg (like 1.5~2cm further than original).

The ZNLine documentation mentions 'bord du fuite'. I assumed that ment TE, considering the CG would otherwise be placed aft of wing centre.

To clarify: I have the CG set at about 250 mm from TE (trailing edge). Was not happy with it but was going to try before taking more drastic measures to get CG more forward. If you are correct, my CG was just about fine in initial setup.. would be a happy camper then

(have googled on 'bord du fuite' but no definitive answer as to its meaning.

< Message edited by hezik -- 3/26/2008 4:41:50 AM >

(in reply to Troy Newman)

RE: ZNLine Alliance incidence - 3/26/2008 5:15:18 AM

Posts: 2377
Joined: 12/30/2001
From: Goodyear, AZ, USA
Status: offline

You know what it has been a while. It might be from the TE not the Leading edge....

I'll see if I can find some of my original ZN Line stuff. It was a long time ago and many airplanes have come and gone since then. About 2000 or so was when I was flying those models.

Troy

(in reply to hezik)

RE: ZNLine Alliance incidence - 3/26/2008 5:54:33 AM

Posts: 2377
Joined: 12/30/2001
From: Goodyear, AZ, USA
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Found it...I'm sure its 280-290mm from the Trailing edge at the root fo the wing. If you flew it at 250 you are pretty darn tail heavy. That model will pitch to the belly like mad with rudder at that CG.

If you get it up near about 290mm the model becomes a very excellent flying plane. A little up elevator mix on knife say 5-6% nothing major. It also snaps superbly.

I knew the number but forgot the reference. Sorry about. Most of models lately have referenced the LE of the wing rather than the TE. So I guess it was just a habit for me.

Troy Newman

< Message edited by Troy Newman -- 3/26/2008 5:55:39 AM >

(in reply to Troy Newman)

RE: ZNLine Alliance incidence - 3/26/2008 10:44:33 AM

Aussie_Knife_Edge

Posts: 238
Joined: 8/21/2005
From: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
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From ZN....

Hello
The CG is 250mm from trailing edge
Best regards
JP ZARDINI

Cheers
Jason.

(in reply to Troy Newman)

RE: ZNLine Alliance incidence - 3/26/2008 11:32:37 AM

hezik

Posts: 90
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From: , NETHERLANDS
Status: offline

Now I'm confused :P

The original ZNLine documentation sais the following:

quote:

Le centre de gravité se trouve a 290mm du bord de fuite

Jason, dit you get the 250 mm from TE value from ZNLine? Did I get that correctly?

(in reply to Aussie_Knife_Edge)

RE: ZNLine Alliance incidence - 3/26/2008 11:42:12 AM

Aussie_Knife_Edge

Posts: 238
Joined: 8/21/2005
From: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
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Sure did.

I have an Alliance that I'm yet to build. I didn't have the CG for it so I asked ZN directly. Perhaps ZN screwed up... Troy has obviously flown one before so his figure could well be more around the money. Probably wise/safer to try Troy's 280 to 290mm CG first and move it back to suit yourself. Better to be slightly nose heavy than tail heavy for the first few flights...

Cheers
Jason.

(in reply to hezik)

RE: ZNLine Alliance incidence - 3/26/2008 11:45:55 AM

Aussie_Knife_Edge

Posts: 238
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From: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
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I just translated your French:

"The centre of gravity is a 290mm the trailing edge."

If that is from the original documentation then I'd go with that.

Any chance of you sending me a PDF copy of the original documentation? I have virtually nothing with my kit..

Cheers
Jason.

(in reply to hezik)

RE: ZNLine Alliance incidence - 3/26/2008 11:55:25 AM

hezik

Posts: 90
Joined: 8/27/2006
From: , NETHERLANDS
Status: offline

If you want, I can send you the documentation complete by mail. By mail I don't mean e-mail (dont have it as PDF) but by regular mail, or snailmail. I have 2 copies of it, since the one I bought the kit from originally owned 2 of 'm..

Most valuable piece of information:

Alliance
Les réglages de l'avion CHAMPION DU MONDE de voltige F3A 1999-2000

Viocu les réglages radio qui j'utilise sur mes ALLIANCE équipes de la Futaba 1024 ZAP

Le centre de gravité se trouve a 290 mm du bord de fuite

Aile - petits debattements

          Aileron Droite                             Aileron Gauche
Droite    10 degrees | 15 mm | expo -45%             10 degrees | 15 mm | expo -45%
Gauche     9 degrees | 13 mm | expo -45%              9 degrees | 13 mm | expo -45%

Aile - grands debattements

          Aileron Droite                             Aileron Gauche
Droite    18 degrees | 27 mm | expo -70%             10 degrees | 27 mm | expo -70%
Gauche    18 degrees | 27 mm | expo -70%              9 degrees | 27 mm | expo -70%


Profondeur - petits debattements

Cabré     9 degrees | 10 mm | expo -29%
Piquer   10 degrees | 11 mm | expo -29%

Profondeur - grands debattements

Cabré    14 degrees | 15 mm | expo -47%
Piquer   16 degrees | 17 mm | expo -47%

Direction - petits debattements

Doite    38 degrees | expo -37%
Gauche   38 degrees | expo -37%

Direction - grands debattements

Doite    44 degrees | expo -46%
Gauche   44 degrees | expo -46%

< Message edited by hezik -- 3/26/2008 12:20:08 PM >

(in reply to Aussie_Knife_Edge)

RE: ZNLine Alliance incidence - 3/26/2008 2:24:43 PM

Posts: 709
Joined: 6/21/2004
From: Athens, GREECE
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Hi,

Do you believe that I could use the above configuration also on my ZN Synergy?

I struggle to find the correct CG, I fly itwith a YS 160DZ and Hatori Long pipe. The model seems to be nose heavy as pitches down, I have added 60gr of weight at the tail and moved the battery further back but still is nose heavy.

Checked also the stab to the wing incidence, stab is 3/4 degrees negative with respect to the wing.

Thanks,
Nikos

< Message edited by Nickolas -- 3/26/2008 2:49:53 PM >

_____________________________

Please check my blog:
http://nikolas-3djunk.blogspot.com/

(in reply to hezik)

RE: ZNLine Alliance incidence - 3/26/2008 4:05:35 PM

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Joined: 12/30/2001
From: Goodyear, AZ, USA
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I know nothing about the Synergy.

If JP says its 250 then I would go with at 250...I looked at my documentation for the Alliance and it says the 290 number. He knows for sure he is the "Z" in ZN line. 250 seems pretty tail heavy to me....if our numbers were up at 290.

As for the CG location of the model I flew......
I remember this because it struck me that all the ZN line planes we were flying at the time. Caprise, Fashion, Alliance...They all had about the same CG. Reality is that the pattern models are not too different to begin with. I just remember how well and how close these models flew to each other and the CG locations. However when you put the moments and the pieces in the same spots then the shape of the pieces can only change the equation so much.

I document things pretty well, but that was a long time ago and my records are not as complete from back then as they would be in todays models. If you want some ZN Line Supreme info I have good data on that.

Troy

< Message edited by Troy Newman -- 3/26/2008 4:06:08 PM >

(in reply to Nickolas)

RE: ZNLine Alliance incidence - 3/26/2008 11:04:31 PM

Posts: 96
Joined: 11/9/2004
From: Leicester, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline

I'm still flying an Alliance, I'll check the cg at the weekend and report back if it helps, I can also check the tail incidence and give the stats. Just hope the weather is better for this weekend than over the previous weekends, it's been terrible over here on blighty!

My Alliance is locked in and feels very well balanced, well to me anyway

Kind regards,

Andy.

(in reply to Troy Newman)

RE: ZNLine Alliance incidence - 3/26/2008 11:13:06 PM

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Joined: 1/12/2005
From: Trollhattan, SWEDEN
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I´m also flying an Alliance for the moment as winter season plane; the incidence is spot on, I´l check the CG.

Alf

(in reply to hezik)

RE: ZNLine Alliance incidence - 3/27/2008 8:18:40 AM

Posts: 454
Joined: 4/5/2002
From: Schoonhoven, NETHERLANDS
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nickolas
Do you believe that I could use the above configuration also on my ZN Synergy?

See my question:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6763585/anchors_6763585/mpage_1/key_synergy/anchor/tm.htm#6763585

(in reply to Nickolas)

RE: ZNLine Alliance incidence - 3/30/2008 7:45:48 PM

hezik

Posts: 90
Joined: 8/27/2006
From: , NETHERLANDS
Status: offline

Well.. mine made its first flight today and whatdayaknow.. it flies

I do think i still have some work to do to find the correct incidence and cg. It had a small climbing tendency (had to trim 2 clicks down for level flight) and inverted it will dive a little.

So any measurements on real-world-actually-flying alliances would still be more than welcome

(in reply to Hans Meij)

RE: ZNLine Alliance incidence - 5/16/2008 10:51:06 PM