RE: One FLY can Ruin a great PIE !  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> AMA Discussions >> RE: One FLY can Ruin a great PIE !
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RE: One FLY can Ruin a great PIE ! - 3/29/2008 6:26:13 AM   
Hossfly



Posts: 3704
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: New Caney, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gremlin Castle
//snip//

He is entitled to publish his views some where just as everyone does on the various electronic forums. In his case he had a way to get it in the AMA rag but that makes his opinion no more or less valid than the lowly web posters.
//snip//


Mr. Hahn, as a salaried employee of the only national organization representing my chosen sport of recreation, is in a different position. In order to enjoy the priveleges that one enjoys by being a member of that organization, one has to pay dues. My dues supports the salaried employees, as well as the magazine that said employee used to blast those of us that frequently use this form of media to point out how the organization attempts to control the membership like peons.

In that respect I do not believe any salaried employee has the right to be allowed to use such ridicule of those that support his livelihood, and especially when such ridicule is in a printed media that the members of the organization also pay for through their dues. (MA advertising does not furnish any noticeable profit for the support of the magazine or its staff. Documented in the annual Auditor's Reports, AMA web, members only section.)

OTOH if I were allowed the same magazine line space to counter such ridicule, then maybe I would have a different opinion.


_____________________________

Horrace Cain.
AMA Life L-93, Leader and CD for 45 years

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." George Washington

(in reply to Gremlin Castle)
       Post #: 51

RE: One FLY can Ruin a great PIE ! - 3/29/2008 6:36:31 AM   
combatpigg



Posts: 9436
Joined: 11/22/2003
From: arlington, WA, USA
Status: offline 		The sheep will eagerly gobble up whatever is put in print by the so called unimpeachable sources.
Should this guy be held to a higher standard than any of the rank and file web slingers?
Yes, he is paid to represent the AMA, not to boost Futabas' sales.
This was very good damage control work for Futaba and I hope the new Tech. Director is rewarded accordingly

_____________________________

Led Zeppelin is NOT "old fogie" music.

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 52

RE: One FLY can Ruin a great PIE ! - 3/29/2008 12:13:52 PM   
P-51B



Posts: 6173
Joined: 10/11/2002
From: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
Status: offline 		Having now been able to read the scribble, I do see the point he was trying to make, albeit poorly. He definately could have worded it better and certainly could have taken a higher road.

I also think his choice of the Futaba radio example was extremely poor. As a case and point, I know several people who owned the radio equipment in question. To the best of my knowledge, none have yet recieved a notice in the mail regarding the potential issue. They know about it, and have had their equipment checked, specifically because of the KNOWLEDGE of it presented by the web crawlers on these forums. Rather than using scare tactics of "the equipment manufacturers taking their toys and going home", he probably should have PRAISED those on the web that got the KNOWLWDGE out and possibly prevented accidents from happening.


Frankly, the thing I find most worrisome about the whole thing is that if you look through this entire thread you will notice a number of folks that are often at odds with one another in the AMA forum...are all united on this issue....NOW THAT'S SCARY!

_____________________________

In order to think "outside the box", one must first accept there IS a box.

(in reply to combatpigg)
       Post #: 53

RE: One FLY can Ruin a great PIE ! - 3/29/2008 12:42:43 PM   
804


 

Posts: 167
Joined: 9/17/2005
From: sheridan, IN, USA
Status: online 		He may have made his case "rather poorly", but this thread illustrates it rather nicely. Liberal facism? Nazi's? Petitions to fire him? Conflict of interest? Suppression of free speech? Wow! Off with his head!!



How some of you get all this from a simple plea to use the internet forums responsibly is amazing. His point is being made right here on this thread right before our eyes.

(in reply to P-51B)
       Post #: 54

RE: One FLY can Ruin a great PIE ! - 3/29/2008 1:06:46 PM   
littlecrankshaf



Posts: 2090
Joined: 12/9/2001
From: here
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 804

He may have made his case "rather poorly", but this thread illustrates it rather nicely. Liberal facism? Nazi's? Petitions to fire him? Conflict of interest? Suppression of free speech? Wow! Off with his head!!



How some of you get all this from a simple plea to use the internet forums responsibly is amazing. His point is being made right here on this thread right before our eyes.

So very Right. We should all step back and take a breath...give the guy a break...after all he and his son didn't try to mow the grounds for an event while on his vacation or anything repugnant like that...now did he? I am sure if he had the guys defending him now would call for his resignation but either way it doesn't bode poorly for the AMA's divinity now or ever.


You know what? If the fellow has any gonads he would make an apology right here in this forum…I image he also crawls around here. I happen to know many of the top brass does.

Let’s see what he is made of! The door is open.






_____________________________

Wow! Another epiphany…that is why the suckups suckup. Super sucking protection power. Yea baby.

(in reply to 804)
       Post #: 55

RE: One FLY can Ruin a great PIE ! - 3/29/2008 1:09:02 PM   
Stickbuilder



Posts: 5140
Joined: 11/20/2005
From: leesburg, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 804

He may have made his case "rather poorly", but this thread illustrates it rather nicely. Liberal facism? Nazi's? Petitions to fire him? Conflict of interest? Suppression of free speech? Wow! Off with his head!!



How some of you get all this from a simple plea to use the internet forums responsibly is amazing. His point is being made right here on this thread right before our eyes.


Did you not think that his choice of wording could have used a little more consideration? Personally, I feel that he is using this, "Bully Pulpit", to lessen the ramifications of the problems that have surfaced concerning the Futaba FASST system. I have no idea why he used the JR name in his column, since it is well known that neither JR nor Spectrum radio's have these problems. The problems that Futaba is having has been documented by print publications (Editorial in April RC Report Magazine by Gordon Banks). For those of us who read and post in more threads here on RC Universe than those dedicated to the AMA or ARF models, having knowledge of a known problem is worth a lot. To hold conversations about these problems just might save a model that is worth many thousands of dollars. For a person who is in his position of responsibility and who is a past employee of the company who imports the product in question, and who is sponsored by that company in competitive events to resort to name calling, and threats of that manufacturer to cease sale of these products to the hobby is laughable.

Free speech (mine and his....yours as well) is protected by the first amendment to the US Constitution. I spent quite a few years supporting and defending that piece of paper. I support his right to say what he wants, but I do not have to agree with either the venue that he chose, nor do I have to agree with the context of his message. Having the right to say something, does not make what is said right, or correct. I think that the AMA would be well advised to monitor the columns that are presented for publication in the future. His was an unfortunate choice of topics, and I don't think it will serve either the AMA, MA nor Futaba very well.

Remaining silent regarding the known deficiencies of a piece of radio equipment that could cause the catastrophic loss of a model, and the possibility of grave personal injury to others who might be in the vicinity during the operation of that model, would be less than responsible. When there is a problem with any piece of equipment that we use, we have the responsibility to make that deficiency known to others who's health and welfare might be compromised by the useage of that piece of equipment. To say that we should not communicate these deficiencies among ourselves through this media or any other, brings question to the motives of the author of that column. I suppose it depends upon who's ox is being gored.

Bill, AMA 4720

_____________________________

It's easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesn't look like an airplane.

(in reply to 804)
       Post #: 56

RE: One FLY can Ruin a great PIE ! - 3/29/2008 2:43:52 PM   
STLPilot


 

Posts: 9049
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: online
quote:

OTOH if I were allowed the same magazine line space to counter such ridicule, then maybe I would have a different opinion.
Sure you're allowed. Pay for an ad space and that space is all yours. Many an editorial has been written in advertisement space in periodicals and printed subscriptions.

_____________________________

Here At The Wall

(in reply to Stickbuilder)
       Post #: 57

RE: One FLY can Ruin a great PIE ! - 3/29/2008 2:44:41 PM   
bkdavy



Posts: 1418
Joined: 9/28/2004
From: FrederickMD, USA
Status: offline 		So let me get this straight. Mr. Hahn makes a plea in the AMA magazine for people to make sure they have their facts straight before posting information or answering questions on internet forums. He's asking all AMA members to not spread or foster rumors and gossip. He has publicly stated that there are people out there that like to use the rapid and broad communications capability provided by the internet to foment controversy where none should exist (trolls, flamers, etc). He's asking for more reasonable, considered discourse, particularly when it could prevent unnecessary worries on the part of people that might be considering entering the hobby. And he refers to those that are trying to stir up problems as bottom feeders. In the past, such terms as "muck-rakers" wiould have applied as well.

And now because he's called these people bottom-feeders and asked us to try to avoid these muck-raking practices, this group wants him pilloried, crucified, fired, tarred and feathered (pick your treatment)?

So its OK for people to say anything bad about the AMA, but not OK for the AMA to say anything bad about people?

Look in the mirror folks.

Brad

(in reply to Stickbuilder)
       Post #: 58

RE: One FLY can Ruin a great PIE ! - 3/29/2008 3:05:55 PM   
STLPilot


 

Posts: 9049
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: bkdavy

So let me get this straight. Mr. Hahn makes a plea in the AMA magazine for people to make sure they have their facts straight before posting information or answering questions on internet forums. He's asking all AMA members to not spread or foster rumors and gossip. He has publicly stated that there are people out there that like to use the rapid and broad communications capability provided by the internet to foment controversy where none should exist (trolls, flamers, etc). He's asking for more reasonable, considered discourse, particularly when it could prevent unnecessary worries on the part of people that might be considering entering the hobby. And he refers to those that are trying to stir up problems as bottom feeders. In the past, such terms as "muck-rakers" wiould have applied as well.

And now because he's called these people bottom-feeders and asked us to try to avoid these muck-raking practices, this group wants him pilloried, crucified, fired, tarred and feathered (pick your treatment)?

So its OK for people to say anything bad about the AMA, but not OK for the AMA to say anything bad about people?

Look in the mirror folks.

Brad

The only way you could have been more right about this post if you would have submitted it more then once and pinned it to the top of every thread in this forum.

Besides, who cares what the AMA says about us or anyone else, their latest efforts have been the best I've seen since I've been around the hobby. Let them say whatever they want, I only pay for the benefits they offer to me when I signed up. Their actions is their end results, not their words. But an AMA employee pointing out the obvious .... should be rewarded with a trophy.

_____________________________

Here At The Wall

(in reply to bkdavy)
       Post #: 59

RE: One FLY can Ruin a great PIE ! - 3/29/2008 3:37:56 PM   
DavidAgar



Posts: 2757
Joined: 12/5/2001
From: Battle Ground, WA, USA
Status: offline 		I have been in this hobby for more years than I care to remember. I also have been a member of the AMA for all those years and as such I do not agree with some of the actions that they have taken and as a member in good standing I have a right to state my dislike for these actions, with a hope that maybe they will change. I will agree that my dislikes need to be stated with proven fact's, which I have always done. I am not hiding behind any screen name, that is my real name. If Mr. Hahn feels a need to consider me a bottom feeder because I do not agree with what the AMA has done, then he has a major character flaw. He has never met me, seen me or knows anything about me. I have spent hundreds of hours over the years teaching people to fly and even to this day, I am working with a High School group, teaching kids the sport of RC. I am listed on the flyer from my club as the lead instructor and working with the other members of my club that instruct, we have taught more people than I care to count and have always sent them in the direction of the AMA to join. Mr. Hahn, you owe me an apology, pure and simply. If is is wrong to disagree with an organization that I pay dues to each and every year, than in my thought process, you might need to find another job within the AMA. Dave

Disclaimer: These views are mine and not those of RCU.

< Message edited by DavidAgar -- 3/29/2008 3:38:57 PM >


_____________________________

If the screw ain't loose then things ain't normal.

Dave Agar
AMA#97144

(in reply to bkdavy)
       Post #: 60

RE: One FLY can Ruin a great PIE ! - 3/29/2008 3:38:04 PM   
crash99


 

Posts: 400
Joined: 12/22/2001
From: Eldon, MO,
Status: offline 		Look, this guy hit the spot. I just read it and it should have been said. Now you guys are upset over the truth being said. If your don't like the truth, change it. Have a great day.

Crash99

(in reply to bkdavy)
       Post #: 61

RE: One FLY can Ruin a great PIE ! - 3/29/2008 3:38:12 PM   
rholson49


 

Posts: 11
Joined: 3/22/2005
From: Granger, IN, USA
Status: offline 		After reading some but not all of the posts here, I realize how correct the article really was. This is 4 pages of posts that are worthless dribble and a total waste of time. Those posting negative comments obviouslly are not smart enough to have truly read and understood the article in the first place. When I get people in my organization that behave in this manner, they are fired immediately before they can create problems. Some people just like to be confrontational for it's own sake and those people deserve to be ignored and alone. Don't bother replying to this post as I will not be back wasting any more of my time here to read it. You would be better served re-reading the article until you understand it better..

(in reply to bkdavy)
       Post #: 62

RE: One FLY can Ruin a great PIE ! - 3/29/2008 4:12:35 PM   
DelRay


 

Posts: 213
Joined: 4/12/2007
From: Cedar Rapids, IA, USA
Status: offline 		Rholson49, after reading some but not all of the posts in this thread, you have made the opinion and stated that that these posts were nothing more than four pages of worthless dribble, and the article in question was written correctly. Maybe you would be better served and you should go back and reread some of these posts so you can better understand them. But, understanding both sides of this issue might be a waste of your time.

_____________________________

AMA # 173709 Have traveled to the East
I.M.A.A. # 4971 Amateur call WB0KFB

(in reply to rholson49)
       Post #: 63

RE: One FLY can Ruin a great PIE ! - 3/29/2008 4:13:54 PM   
timothy thompson


 

Posts: 2761
Joined: 6/19/2004
From: saginaw, MI, USA
Status: offline 		do any of the frequent posters here ever fly or have time to build. All i see and hear is critical statements. greg pointed out that info on the net is not always accurate. Isnt he correct?

(in reply to rholson49)