RE: The perfect landing, Practing slow flight.  
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RE: The perfect landing, Practing slow flight. - 4/2/2008 5:24:42 PM   
Regent


 

Posts: 16
Joined: 8/11/2007
From: , AL, USA
Status: offline 		Yep, that's it.

(in reply to dick Hanson)
       Post #: 26

RE: The perfect landing, Practing slow flight. - 4/3/2008 3:52:23 PM   
Steve Steinbring


 

Posts: 254
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Homestead, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I agree with Dick and AA5BY that the harrier landing maneuver is above the level of most R/C pilots. A behind the power curve flight regime is going to endup giving a lot of R/C pilots a TOUCH AND STOP result. Different than sitting in a full scale aircraft where you have instruments and you can sense what the wing is doing is different. Slow flying a model is more guess work. If your model has a good thrust to weight ratio something like a 3-D setup allowing you to fly your way out of trouble GOOD! The average model especially a trainer maybe too limited.

I think it would be fair advice to plan your approaches such that one carries enough airspeed with a powered approach to the intended landing spot to get there. Avoid a really high key for stepping off the perch, that altitude translates into airspeed unless you can slow it down someway. If I'm flying in close I start slowing up on a lower downwind. Once on base I make two essentially 45 degrees turns to final, the first gives me approx. a 45 degree flight path crossing final that way lineup is easily seen and adjusted for. The last 45 degree turn gets me lined up. The 45 degree turns require less angle of bank at a slower airspeed with less chance of stall.

Just some thoughts.

< Message edited by Steve Steinbring -- 4/3/2008 3:57:27 PM >

(in reply to Regent)
       Post #: 27

RE: The perfect landing, Practing slow flight. - 4/3/2008 5:33:20 PM   
BMatthews



Posts: 8951
Joined: 10/4/2002
From: Burnaby, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		The good news is that I think we've woken up a few readers to the fact that diving down to the landing spot is the best way to ensure that you glide the whole length of the runway and shoot off the other side. The right way is to hold the model in a higher than normal drag attitude and then let Mother Nature ensure a proper glide path down to a final show speed touchdown.

.... AND that it's good to practices this at first from the proverbial 3 mistakes high...


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Bruce-
Proudly wasting balsa since 1965.

Free Flighters go that extra mile........

(in reply to Steve Steinbring)
       Post #: 28

RE: The perfect landing, Practing slow flight. - 4/3/2008 5:39:09 PM   
Sempiterna


 

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Joined: 3/28/2008
From: Denver, CO, USA
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quote:


Like this ?
Be serious ,this is just too hard for 90%ofthe flyers.



With a tail dragger sure, but with a trice, i dont think that a nose high, moderate high AOA landing is difficult.

I've been trying to perfect the landings on FS one with a tail dragger, and its challenging..

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(in reply to dick Hanson)
       Post #: 29

RE: The perfect landing, Practing slow flight. - 4/3/2008 5:54:04 PM   
da Rock



Posts: 6705
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: western, NC, USA
Status: online 		I don't think anyone has brought up the technique of adding a bit of elevator trim for the landing.

With some airplanes it's magic.

It doesn't work for everything and every approach, but it's something to add to your bag of tricks.

The people who learned to do it with certain models learned how much to click in, and to click it out. There are full scale airplanes that have just that type action on their landing checklists. Most often have flaps in the mix as well, but the idea I'm pimping with the example is the checklist. Even if you keep it in your head, they work.

(in reply to Sempiterna)
       Post #: 30

RE: The perfect landing, Practing slow flight. - 4/3/2008 6:52:08 PM   
Sempiterna


 

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Joined: 3/28/2008
From: Denver, CO, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: da Rock

I don't think anyone has brought up the technique of adding a bit of elevator trim for the landing.

With some airplanes it's magic.

It doesn't work for everything and every approach, but it's something to add to your bag of tricks.

The people who learned to do it with certain models learned how much to click in, and to click it out. There are full scale airplanes that have just that type action on their landing checklists. Most often have flaps in the mix as well, but the idea I'm pimping with the example is the checklist. Even if you keep it in your head, they work.



Do any of the newer computer radios have the ability to have 'landing' configuration?

I'm not sure what would be best 'in practice', but I'd think it would be ideal if I could have the flaps switch be a 'landing configuration' switch, and not just be the flaps. The switch would turn on low rates, it would add a bit of 'up' trim to the elevator and if so equipped, lower the flaps.

I think that would jsut rock, and if it exists, i want to know about it

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(in reply to da Rock)
       Post #: 31

RE: The perfect landing, Practing slow flight. - 4/3/2008 8:57:13 PM   
BMatthews



Posts: 8951
Joined: 10/4/2002
From: Burnaby, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		One of the darkest days in radio design was when the last of the analong trim lever designs was discontinued. Up to now I've always added a longer lever to my elevator trim so I'd be able to use it as a major flight control. Flying sailplanes will soon teach you that the elevator trim is your throttle and needs to be used often and with a fine degree of control. This translates across to power flying as well just as daRock is saying above.

A member of my power flying club was an airline pilot and he flew like this all the time and with every plane he flew from hot aerobatic models to gentle trainers. He almost always had really nice landings as a result of this technique and practice.


_____________________________

Bruce-
Proudly wasting balsa since 1965.

Free Flighters go that extra mile........

(in reply to Sempiterna)
       Post #: 32

RE: The perfect landing, Practing slow flight. - 4/3/2008 8:59:05 PM   
Steve Steinbring


 

Posts: 254
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Homestead, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I know that Ed Moorman mixes in on a flap switch spoilerons they activate when the throttle gets to about 50%. He then just controls the sink rate via power with the advantage of spoilers. I'm going to give it a try pretty soon. Ed suggested about 10-15 degrees of spoiler deflection as a starting point at altitude to see what happens each aircraft is different. Says that it works well!

(in reply to Sempiterna)
       Post #: 33

RE: The perfect landing, Practing slow flight. - 4/3/2008 9:07:37 PM   
Steve Steinbring


 

Posts: 254
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Homestead, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Bruce,

I agree on the trim controls, really don't like the digital over the old analog

(in reply to BMatthews)
       Post #: 34

RE: The perfect landing, Practing slow flight. - 4/3/2008 9:17:53 PM   
Steve Steinbring


 

Posts: 254
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From: Homestead, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sempiterna

quote:


Like this ?
Be serious ,this is just too hard for 90%ofthe flyers.



With a tail dragger sure, but with a trice, i dont think that a nose high, moderate high AOA landing is difficult.

I've been trying to perfect the landings on FS one with a tail dragger, and its challenging..



I really don't see how conventional vs. tricycle gear makes much of a difference you can do a full stall landing with either setup or fly it on.

(in reply to Sempiterna)
       Post #: 35

RE: The perfect landing, Practing slow flight. - 4/3/2008 9:36:20 PM   
Sempiterna


 

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From: Denver, CO, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Steinbring
I really don't see how conventional vs. tricycle gear makes much of a difference you can do a full stall landing with either setup or fly it on.


Be it my lack of experience or what have you, the tail dragger is much harder to land IMO... and from my limited experience in the real thing, you dont have as high of a pitch attitude with a tail dragger while landing, the landings on a tail dragger are more flat.

_____________________________

Hangar 9 .40 Cub - 40 Sized Hangar 9 Twist w/Saito .72
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(in reply to Steve Steinbring)
       Post #: 36

RE: The perfect landing, Practing slow flight. - 4/3/2008 10:34:35 PM   
Bax


 

Posts: 12457
Joined: 4/26/2002
From: Champaign, IL, USA
Status: offline 		With a digital trim button on the elevator, you have a bit more difficulty getting the elevator trimmed for approach speed. You can count the number of 'beeps' you need (if you can hear them), or count the number of trim button pushes.

I used to set up my transmitters that had analog trims such that when I reduced power on downwind, I added elevator trim. I had things set up so that I could dial in the right amount every time. Now my elevator stick could remain mostly hands-off and I just used throttle to help the approach. Yes, you really still need to use the stick a bit, but only as an aid to the preset trim setting.

If your transmitter has conditions, you can set up a landing condition that has the elevator trim lever right where you want it to give you the proper 'hands off' approach speed. You could also offset the elevator center in that condition.

If your transmitter doesn't have conditions, you can use an offset mixer with the elevator channel. Work with it a bit, and you can find the right amount of offset. Then just flip the switch.

Many solutions to get a little bit of extra help. Once you find a good glide speed for the model, you can then concentrate more on alignment and glidepath. Airspeed will take care of itself.

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(in reply to Sempiterna)
       Post #: 37

RE: The perfect landing, Practing slow flight. - 4/3/2008 11:26:40 PM   
HighPlains


 

Posts: 2668
Joined: 3/2/2003
From: Over da rainbow, KS, USA
Status: offline 		Don't need any of that if you burn off enough fuel that the balance changes. Automatic up trim.

As to trims on transmitters, once they did away with cross trim radios, the industry was doomed.

< Message edited by HighPlains -- 4/4/2008 7:39:36 AM >

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RE: The perfect landing, Practing slow flight. - 4/4/2008 12:00:16 AM   
Steve Steinbring


 

Posts: 254
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Homestead, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sempiterna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Steinbring
I really don't see how conventional vs. tricycle gear makes much of a difference you can do a full stall landing with either setup or fly it on.


Be it my lack of experience or what have you, the tail dragger is much harder to land IMO... and from my limited experience in the real thing, you dont have as high of a pitch attitude with a tail dragger while landing, the landings on a tail dragger are more flat.


Sempiterna,

From real experience in full scale with about over 1200 hours in taildraggers you have to fly them until they stop. Thats the difference vs nosewheel steering on a tricycle gear aircraft! With a taildragger with no nosewheel steering, the pilot must use rudder control and brakes for additional control if needed. If you can't see over the nose during taxi one must "S turn" on taxi out.

I really don't understand why you think that there is going to be a shallower angle of attack with a taildragger on landing!!!! There are kits out there like a Stik where the modeler can set up their model with either conventional or tricycle gear. Tell me how a taildragger when it is sitting on the ground for a three point landing has a low AOA vs. the same aircratft with a tricycle gear landing setup? Ain't no way!

(in reply to Sempiterna)