New Twin Tail SSC Design (Full Version)

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batchelc -> New Twin Tail SSC Design (3/29/2008 1:24:40 AM)

Here's some pics of my new SSC design. Some basic stats are 60" span, weight 2.6-2.7 lbs. Foam core wings. OS 15 LA power. Control is ailerons, elevator and throttle. I plan to maiden this bird Sunday. I'll keep everyone posted.




batchelc -> RE: New Twin Tail SSC Design (3/29/2008 1:31:30 AM)

Here's some build pics. Coro fuse showing pink foam bulkheads. The second bulkhead is cut for the receiver battery to sit in. The wing has fiberglass spars and is reinforced with bi-directional fiberglass tape and covered with packing tape. The ailerons are coro.




batchelc -> RE: New Twin Tail SSC Design (3/29/2008 2:24:47 AM)

Closer to a maiden! Wings are done except for adjusting the ailerons. Next up is the engine and tank. Anyone have any good ideas for a name.




RC MANIAC119 -> RE: New Twin Tail SSC Design (3/29/2008 4:29:53 AM)

Dude.........I certainly admire your energy and the "out of the box" thinking involved in this project. BUT, I see a major weakness.........one good smack anywhere on the fuse, and your bird is dead!!! That Coro dosen't lend itself very well to cold weather or impacts.

Good luck with the maiden, and make sure you post a vid....





OzMo -> RE: New Twin Tail SSC Design (3/29/2008 9:52:29 PM)

I think it will be good except if very cold. The softer than wood formers lend themselves to resist impact. Coro is fairly resilient,
better than PVC pipe for sure. Some skewer in the flutes forward of the firewall center might help front end toughness??[:)]




rrh -> RE: New Twin Tail SSC Design (3/29/2008 10:12:13 PM)

Those SSC impacts are not nearly as damaging as Open B. That coro fuse might just be the ticket.

r




batchelc -> RE: New Twin Tail SSC Design (3/29/2008 10:51:59 PM)

I guess we will find out! I've built a few planes with gutterpipe and metal fuses and they are very heavy. In my opinion the coro is the best for cost, ease/speed of building. I'll let you know after a few wacks!

I've never flown combat, but it sounds fun and I hav 5 or 6 folks interested in the SSC (0.15 sized). some guys have flown combat with .40's and have gotten discouraged with the carnage.

So far the ready to fly weight is 44.1 oz (2.75 lbs).

I started a build thread and more pictures at: http://www.wichitapilot.com/page.php?pageid=26

chris




Montague -> RE: New Twin Tail SSC Design (3/30/2008 2:01:29 AM)

Nice looking plane. Fwiw, I've used a coro and foam fuse in SSC for years now. I'm still flying the same fuses that I built years ago and that have seen some major SSC flying. (I think the newest of my SSC fuses was built before the 2005 season. That's 3 full seasons without losing a coro-foam fuse).

I do have a few ideas that might help you though. The big thing is that I run the flutes nose-to-tail, then I glue in two 1/8" fiberglass rods inside the flutes, one on each side. With out that, the coro can be broken, and the fuse actually torn in half. One of my early versions had that happen. Someone hit me head-on, right at the base of the vertical stab, and it tore off the entire back of the fuse. . That was back in 2003 or 2004, and I had used an overly short rod in that plane, so the fuse broke right at the end of the rod. It was easy to fix though, I just used some bamboo skewers in the flutes and glued the fuse back together and put some tape over it, and it was good to go.

I'd also run a foam core the full length of the fuse, and especially up around the tank and firewall area. That really helps with the full throttle impacts.

Coro can also be cut by a prop, but with the rods and foam in the fuse, the coro isn't the only thing holding the fuse together. I've had guys cut 2" chunks out of my coro fuse with their prop, but the plane kept flying with no problem, and was easily repaired later.

If you want to see how I build my fuses, take a look at the Rapier instructions on http://www.MidAtlanticCombat.com Feel free to copy that kind of construction, it's a bit more effort than putting together some other fuse designs, but I honestly don't think there is anything more durable out there. Oh, and unless you're flying in sub-freezing weather, a coro-foam fuse holds together just fine at contests with temps in the high 30s-low 40s.




Montague -> RE: New Twin Tail SSC Design (3/30/2008 2:05:34 AM)

Oh, I forgot, ditch the commercial-bought nylon engine mount. They are great for sport planes and for losing engines in the tall grass during a contest, but not much else.

Instead, make an engine mount by cutting a U-shape out of 1/4" HDPE, and then get some aluminum angle and bolt it together and screw to your firewall.

Like this:

[image]http://www.wheek.org/macombat/gfx/rapier/engine2.jpg[/image]




batchelc -> RE: New Twin Tail SSC Design (3/31/2008 5:32:05 AM)

Well the weather here in the middle of the country stank all weekend. So the aiden will just have to wait.

I did get the build article finished at: http://www.wichitapilot.com/page.php?pageid=26. I also wrote a small article on soldering pushrod clevisis. Let me know what you think (spelling aside).

I'm working on the build plans.

Montague - I've seen your site before. I like a lot of your ideas (like cutting the hole for the tank). Maybe I will retire this coro fuse for sport plane flying and build one like your design with the glass rods. I do have room in the corners for the glass rods though. Maybe that will work too. The stiffness that putting the flutes across the fuse is nice. I like your engine mount idea. We have an aircraft scrap supplier that I can buy that stuff by the lbs.

More to come in a few days.

Oh - any ideas on names? I was thinking tomcat or hornet but the guys in the SPAD forum were suggesting SPAD-cat or something like that.




Montague -> RE: New Twin Tail SSC Design (3/31/2008 2:31:24 PM)

I do like the plane, you'll have to let us know how it flys.

I'm curious, why only 60" span and not 64"? foam only available in 7foot-6in sheets there? [:D].

I've never tried running the flutes across the fuse you like you did, so I can't say what it does for rigitity of the fuse. I would worry about a tear starting and running around the fuse instead of along it, but I just don't know.

On the MkIII version of the Rapier (the current version is Mk IV), I used 2mm coro for the fuse sides, and glued the rods into slots cut into the foam core, and against the coro sides. The fuse died when a hard hit caused the coro to delaminate from the foam and the rods popped loose in the foam slots, like when you get a loose spar in a wing. I could have fixed it, but by that point I'd gone to the Mk IV fuse anyway (which is 1/4" wider and has the much-improved tail). Anyway, I don't know if glueing rods into the corner folds would work or not, but it sounds like a good idea.

What anchors your wing hold down dowls, or how are you holding on the wing? My wing dowls go under the rods in the flutes, so while they often tear oval holes in the coro and slide around a little, they can't pull out of the top of the fuse. That did happen to one of the earlier Mk II fuses, which had the rods located lower in the fuse side (and shorter rods).

How are you holding your vstab and hstab on? I find they get hit a lot during combat, so I find that a quick-change tail group is really handy. Your verticals should be easy to mount by screwing to a hardpoint in the fuse, which would be a real win at a contest. Same with your horizontal.

I think your verticals are a bit small. They are large enough for normal flight and for handling a streamer or two on the wingtip, I think. Twin tails do well in that regard. And I like the verticals in front of the horizontal, I think that gives a tighter turn. (I got a noticeable improvement in turning radius when I increased the vertical tail size on the Rapier and moved the LE of the vertical out in front of the horizontal stab. Lots of vertical tail in clean air at high alpha seems to keep the nose pointed and delay the snaproll by a couple of degrees, and that means higher-G turns.)

But in your case it also reduces the moment arm on the vertical area. I suspect that you might have trouble with getting out of impact-induced flat spins. Twin tails seem to blanket each other, making the tail almost half as effective when in a fast spin. You'll have to see if you have trouble getting out of low altitude spins. Let us know how that tests out, your fuse is wide, so the tails might not blanket like I've seen with other twin tail planes. If nothing else, when you're flight testing, be sure to point the nose straight up until you run out of airspeed, then give it full aileron and elevator and see what it does. You'll get some kind of stall-snap-spin, but the question is how fast is the rotation and how quickly can you get out of it.




Montague -> RE: New Twin Tail SSC Design (3/31/2008 2:36:20 PM)

I forgot, how is the firewall anchored? If it's just glued to the foam and coro sides, will anything prevent the foam and firewall from moving back on a hard hit? Or the foam from compressing?

That's why my firewall sits in front of the coro and rods, and I use the triagle stock to keep the firewall from getting knocked off the front if someone hits the engine from the side. It seems to work, I've never had a firewall come loose or the front end of a fuse damaged, even when people landed spinner nuts on the plywood and engine area. (when I built the first Rapiers with the firewall that way, I wondered if I wasn't going to have someone tear the firewall off the front of the plane. But it's never happened, so I've never changed that part of the plane).




rrh -> RE: New Twin Tail SSC Design (3/31/2008 5:53:59 PM)

With your fuse built with the flutes crossing, it will tend to accordian in a hard nose in crash. A lengthwise flute fuse will be more resistant to this.

r




Montague -> RE: New Twin Tail SSC Design (3/31/2008 7:03:14 PM)

Yeah, I'd be worried about the sections that are un-supported coro.


Btw, I just noticed one other thing. You can improve performance if you taper down the aft end of the fuse. Anything to avoid a squared-off end that will form a vortex and add a huge amount of drag. (some drainpipe fuses have the bottom cut upwards at the back. But that only helps if you then cover over the open back, otherwise you get the same effect as the air travels along the bottom of the fuse, then turns up behind the fuse into the low pressure that forms back there. as the plane moves.




batchelc -> RE: New Twin Tail SSC Design (4/16/2008 3:11:49 AM)

She flew!

Details and video from the first flight:

http://www.wichitapilot.com/page.php?pageid=26

I''ve added some differential into the ailerons to counteract the drag. I think at first I actual had some reverse differential (more down than up) which made slow flight a little fun. The stall was gentile and it would recover with some throttle. I am also thinking of adding some more vertical tail area, but we''ll see how the next flight goes.

I''m hoping to get some more video with the video camera and not just the digital camera.

Montague - I fat fingered her in at the end of the flight and plopped her in at about a 70 degree nose down angle into the asphalt runway. No damage (not even a broken prop!). The coro on the nose is crushed, but very slightly. The impact cut one of the fuel lines, but other than that it was dust off and fly again!

More to come if it will stop blowing 50 kts here in Kansas....




Montague -> RE: New Twin Tail SSC Design (4/16/2008 3:31:30 PM)

Looks great, you''ll have to let us know how it turns, and how well it handles streamers and such. Hopefully a full power, full elevator snaproll out of a turn will be nice and smooth, not sudden with no warning.




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