RE: Discussion of My Response to Greg Hahn's recent "The Inside Loop" column  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> AMA Discussions >> RE: Discussion of My Response to Greg Hahn's recent "The Inside Loop" column
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RE: Discussion of My Response to Greg Hahn's recen... - 4/11/2008 2:47:16 PM   
combatpigg



Posts: 9784
Joined: 11/22/2003
From: arlington, WA, USA
Status: online 		I've re-read Daves' post a few times to see where the personal attack is...don't see it. If the idea of birds pooping on a statue is offensive to you, I suggest that you begin a crusade to have all the outdoor statues and monuments in the free world removed.

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       Post #: 126

RE: Discussion of My Response to Greg Hahn's recen... - 4/11/2008 2:52:50 PM   
Liberator


 

Posts: 794
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: Sandy, UT, USA
Status: offline 		Ahhh same old STL....more then willing to dish it out, NEVER willing to take it.

I love the lets take some moral high road now that I feel I can use it against a moderator.

Simply pathetic.

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One man's crash is another man's carefully planned landing maneuver.

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       Post #: 127

RE: Discussion of My Response to Greg Hahn's rece... - 4/11/2008 3:14:19 PM   
RCadmin



Posts: 13192
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Belle Mead, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		First off....Let's stop shooting bullets among ourselves here. The topic of this thread is to discuss the original posters response to hahn's article. Let's keep it on that please. This is a charged issue and it is easy to start deflecting on each other rather than on the topic of the article here. I'm not here to place blame on anyone for starting to get off course or continuing. I just want to get back on track to the topic at hand. Get too far off track and you run the risk of proving Hahn right! Thanks for everyones cooperation.

Second. In my opinion I think Hahn has it wrong and is simply out of touch with how communication is now being done in this century and that the ways of old are fast dying. One could make all sorts of arguments about MA Magazine, their writers, etc. One could say Greg's article is a perfect example of what he argues about except he is doing it in print and nobody can reply in their magazine to his opinion.

Bottom line is that RCU and the other websites out there are growing like weeds because there is alot of value for users on these sites. The forums are the most active place and are frequented by experts, novices and beginners. Greg Hahn is entitled to his opinion but that opinion won't change reality and where the future lies.

Those who communicate on RCU and other forums/sites carry as much weight as anyone else. We have 350,000 registered members here and to simply dismiss them all lacks wisdom.

marc

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(in reply to Liberator)
       Post #: 128

RE: Discussion of My Response to Greg Hahn's rece... - 4/11/2008 3:40:50 PM   
Hypersprint


 

Posts: 59
Joined: 11/22/2007
From: Colchester, VT or Eustis, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Well put Marc. Thank You

And Phil,

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       Post #: 129

RE: Discussion of My Response to Greg Hahn's rece... - 4/11/2008 3:43:05 PM   
JUGFLIER


 

Posts: 951
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Muscle Shoals, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Excellent post Marc,
We need more of your wisdom.

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       Post #: 130

RE: Discussion of My Response to Greg Hahn's rece... - 4/11/2008 4:04:14 PM   
Liberator


 

Posts: 794
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: Sandy, UT, USA
Status: offline 		Marc,

You are absolutely right.
The temptation to sling a barb back when one has been delivered is a powerful thing and I always have a hard time not tossing the grenade back when it lands near me.

I will be more mindful going forward.


Tom

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One man's crash is another man's carefully planned landing maneuver.

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       Post #: 131

RE: Discussion of My Response to Greg Hahn's rece... - 4/11/2008 5:04:19 PM   
Silent-AV8R



Posts: 1778
Joined: 3/16/2004
From: SOCAL, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RCadmin
Those who communicate on RCU and other forums/sites carry as much weight as anyone else. We have 350,000 registered members here and to simply dismiss them all lacks wisdom.



And there in lies some of what Greg was trying (badly) to say. In times of old (you know, before the Internet) we looked to the print media for information. That is where we found the "experts", and we trusted what we read.

Then came the Internet and the possibility for anyone with the ability to mash a keyboard to share their views. The task of separating the kernel from the chaff is a daunting one. For the most part we have no idea who is posting, what they know, or how to assess the worth of their opinion. So when Joe34780 posts that he heard from his buddy that a guy he knew once saw a fellow who....... Well, you get the point.

Just because you read it on the Net doesn't make it true. And you can believe that, because I just wrote it on the Net.


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Reality is Subjective. At least that's what I think.

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       Post #: 132

RE: Discussion of My Response to Greg Hahn's rece... - 4/11/2008 5:36:52 PM   
pburress


 

Posts: 13
Joined: 2/3/2004
From: Wichita, KS, USA
Status: offline 		Okay, I'm officially on a soapbox here:

quote:

Also, the discussion here on RCU seems to be a little more civil, less heated and generally more respectful.
OOPS! Maybe I spoke too soon?

STLPilot, you have every right to voice your opinion and it's too bad that's used as an opportunity for personal jabs at you.

Along those lines, it doesn't seem appropriate for a moderator to be taking part in the personal back-and-forth. Moderators should always try to set an example. The "disclaimer" doesn't really mean much, in my opinion- As a moderator, I believe your conduct reflects on the forum, even with a disclaimer.

As is to be expected, there is a complete array of opinions. This is what makes these open forums great, as I pointed out in my letter to the editor. That being said, not much new is being said here, and it seems this topic is pretty much exhausted. Free and open discussion aside, I would have no problems with the thread being locked if there is more of the unpleasantness. Go ahead, call me a hypocrite! I can take it.

I hope that everyone who is willing to fight back and forth on the subject here has taken a "real" action and notified the editor of MA of their thoughts!

(in reply to Silent-AV8R)
       Post #: 133

RE: Discussion of My Response to Greg Hahn's rece... - 4/11/2008 6:07:06 PM   
STLPilot


 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

There isn't any other way to interpret that sentence. Either you are a troll or you believe Hahn's "insults" are ok...either way that is the problem with your position as it relates to this discussion.
No I don't believe his insults are ok. However I didn't see any insults. If you feel his comments are insulting ... well ... there must be a reason.

But one thing for sure ... what you see and read on the Internet is not how life is in the real world. On this forum or just about any other. They are great forms of communication, but certainly come with their fair share of bottom feeders to go along with it.

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       Post #: 134

RE: Discussion of My Response to Greg Hahn's rece... - 4/11/2008 6:56:32 PM   
RCKen



Posts: 14714
Joined: 7/10/2002
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Status: offline 		Ok guys, last warning here. Let's leave the personal comments and insults out of this discussion.

Thanks

Ken

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(in reply to littlecrankshaf)
       Post #: 135

RE: Discussion of My Response to Greg Hahn's recen... - 4/11/2008 7:15:26 PM   
Stickbuilder



Posts: 5382
Joined: 11/20/2005
From: leesburg, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot


Interesting post David, but not surprised. My comments are my opinions in regards to the discussion, which are directed toward Greg Hahn, not you. But if you want to debate my charachter and whether or not you would like too see birds do their thing on a statue of my likeness, by all means I'm open for that discussion. However as a moderator you should know that a subject like that would probably not fall under the heading of the RCU AMA forums. In fact I don't think it would be befitting in any RCU forum or even PM, so if you would like my cell phone number and would like to debate me directly, PM me for the number.

But saying that Greg Hahn is wrong and insulting to members and then taking it upon yourself to insult a fellow RCU member is completely hypocritical on your behalf. Grant it your insult is only aimed at 1 person and not the entire group, but the principal is the same. I do feel moderators should feel free to speak their mind on these forums, withn RCU guidelines, but your the one wearing the required RCU Moderator badge in your avatar and you are the one representing RCU, much like Greg Hahn supposedly "represents" AMA members.

You expect and apology from Greg Hahn, well I certainly expect one from you. Like you, in this case, I believe the insults are uncalled for.


Dion,

If memory serves me correctly, I seem to recall you taking the Moderators part, when I questioned them using their Moderator avitar when making a personal post. You can't have it both ways, so which way do you want it to be? The shoe fits poorly when it's on the other foot does it not?

Bill, AMA 4720

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       Post #: 136

RE: Discussion of My Response to Greg Hahn's rece... - 4/11/2008 7:21:04 PM   
littlecrankshaf



Posts: 2134
Joined: 12/9/2001
From: here
Status: offline 		Sorry Ken,

I'll try to do better.

Now, hold on to your hats since I am going to agree with one of STL's points. Hahn's article isn’t insulting to actual bottom feeders. I mean a worm doesn't mind be called a worm... now does he?

To reiterate; us non-bottom feeders are offended by the article and feel an apology is due.


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Wow! Another epiphany…that is why the suckups suckup. Super sucking protection power. Yea baby.

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       Post #: 137

RE: Discussion of My Response to Greg Hahn's recen... - 4/11/2008 7:44:00 PM   
STLPilot


 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot


Interesting post David, but not surprised. My comments are my opinions in regards to the discussion, which are directed toward Greg Hahn, not you. But if you want to debate my charachter and whether or not you would like too see birds do their thing on a statue of my likeness, by all means I'm open for that discussion. However as a moderator you should know that a subject like that would probably not fall under the heading of the RCU AMA forums. In fact I don't think it would be befitting in any RCU forum or even PM, so if you would like my cell phone number and would like to debate me directly, PM me for the number.

But saying that Greg Hahn is wrong and insulting to members and then taking it upon yourself to insult a fellow RCU member is completely hypocritical on your behalf. Grant it your insult is only aimed at 1 person and not the entire group, but the principal is the same. I do feel moderators should feel free to speak their mind on these forums, withn RCU guidelines, but your the one wearing the required RCU Moderator badge in your avatar and you are the one representing RCU, much like Greg Hahn supposedly "represents" AMA members.

You expect and apology from Greg Hahn, well I certainly expect one from you. Like you, in this case, I believe the insults are uncalled for.


Dion,

If memory serves me correctly, I seem to recall you taking the Moderators part, when I questioned them using their Moderator avitar when making a personal post. You can't have it both ways, so which way do you want it to be? The shoe fits poorly when it's on the other foot does it not?

Bill, AMA 4720
I guess you misread my post. I feel that moderators should say whatever they want on these forums, on the same field we play. However my praise of Greg Hahn was my opinion of Greg Hahn, not David Agar. David Agar is the one representing RCU, insulting a RCU member, at the same time saying that he does not support Greg Hahn's comments. If you don't see a little irony in the matter Bill, well it to me just sums up exactly to what Mr. Hahn was trying to address.

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       Post #: 138

RE: Discussion of My Response to Greg Hahn's recen... - 4/11/2008 8:40:02 PM   
littlecrankshaf



Posts: 2134
Joined: 12/9/2001
From: here
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot



David Agar is the one representing RCU, insulting a RCU member, at the same time saying that he does not support Greg Hahn's comments.


Not sure what you mean by that sentence. I re-read David’s posts and do not see any insults. Do you intend to say David's inabilities to support "walkinthepark's" position as a RCU member is somehow insulting to him? I certainly don't see it that way. Can't be sure what you meant...it doesn't seem to make any sense.


_____________________________

Wow! Another epiphany…that is why the suckups suckup. Super sucking protection power. Yea baby.

(in reply to STLPilot)
       Post #: 139

RE: Discussion of My Response to Greg Hahn's recen... - 4/11/2008 9:21:15 PM   
Stickbuilder



Posts: 5382
Joined: 11/20/2005
From: leesburg, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot

I guess you misread my post. I feel that moderators should say whatever they want on these forums, on the same field we play. However my praise of Greg Hahn was my opinion of Greg Hahn, not David Agar. David Agar is the one representing RCU, insulting a RCU member, at the same time saying that he does not support Greg Hahn's comments. If you don't see a little irony in the matter Bill, well it to me just sums up exactly to what Mr. Hahn was trying to address.


Nope, I did not misread your post. You simply got caught in the flip part of your normal flip-flop mode of operation. Try as you undoubtably will, you can't dodge this one.

One thing that you must remember; there is a significant difference between a Moderator who monitors websites without compensation, and a paid employee of a member owned organization. The paid employee in question also happens to be a Director. This distinction alone should make that person accountable for his actions, or for any action that is done under his signature, or his title. While it's true that I have been told by a member of the Executive Committee that the sub-heading of the Guest Column was left in by accident, I have to ask, if it was accidental, then why was it written in the first place?

Bill, AMA 4720

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       Post #: 140

RE: Discussion of My Response to Greg Hahn's rece... - 4/11/2008 9:38:43 PM   
STLPilot


 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

One thing that you must remember; there is a significant difference between a Moderator who monitors websites without compensation, and a paid employee of a member owned organization.
Bill who is talking about status, I was talking about principal.

Also if anyone is going to answer for that article, if you think it was so bad, it should not be Greg Hahn, it should be the people that pay his salary, the EC. You know those guys that work for free who represent the AMA. The EC is the first and last voice at the AMA. If it was so bad then they should step up and apologize for their actions, of taking no action.

Unlike the great ED / Kaluf incident, I don't believe there is a lot more to this story than we can see. But one thing for sure in any organization, the buck stops with Dave Matthewson, not Greg Hahn.

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