How not to treat a customer  
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How not to treat a customer - 4/2/2008 1:22:50 AM   
Glacier Girl



Posts: 6958
Joined: 7/9/2004
From: SomewhereIn, PA, USA
Status: offline 		First off Marc, if this is in the wrong forum, I apologize, feel free to move it as you see fit.

This is a little long, but bare with me. Anyhow, a lot of you know me, for those of you who don't, I've been in the electric side of the hobby since early 2004. I am an R/C airplane addict, having dumped more money in birds then some 3rd world countries spend on their air forces. I am an AMA member, a charter member of the Badius Owner's club, probably the biggest forum on any of the sites.
Also I am the VP of the Badius Boys Flying Club Inc. Which I formed into a non profit corporation and built the flying field for.

I've always tried to treat everyone with courtesy here on the forums and gave the best info I could in helping folks out. How I would want to be treated. I praise those who do good by me, and now I guess I have to post on someone who has not.

This is no more then me passing on info to all the others here on how myself and a some others of my club have been wronged in our viewpoint. So just take it as that, more info for you to use when purchasing for your addiction.

One of my club mates decided to pay me back if you will for buying him an AT-6. He sent me a pair of new Align 3S2100 22C packs, still in the sealed packaging, direct from where he purchased his at the same time. Also another club member bought some of these same packs. Soon after, word got out the packs were not quite what they were supposed to be.

The club mate who sent me mine let me know he had contacted Frank at Align, and got his replaced. OK, mine other then attaching a Deans connector to, were still sitting in the packaging unused.

So I emailed Frank, asking if the packs were safe to use, and if they were not, could they be replaced. He emailed me back a couple of days later asking where and when I got them. I scanned the receipt and emailed it to Frank........No reply. I emailed Frank again........no reply. So I called Frank, and he knew who I was. Apparently he got my emails and decided not to answer.

I asked about getting them replaced and he told me they were now out of the 90 day warranty and I would have to pay 50% to wards new packs. I then reminded Frank, that I had saved my email copies, showing not only my first email but also his reply all just over 60 days after they were purchased, and that was well with in the 90 day warranty.

Frank then told me he needed a copy of the receipt. What he did with the other copies I sent, I have no idea. So I sent him another. And another after not hearing anything back.
And guess what, I've not heard boo from him. Mentioning this to some of my club mates I find out about another member going through the same, he running into no help from Frank, after he did some digging and finding out that apparently Align knew these packs were not as advertised, and still sold them to the public.

Now it's only my opinion, but it almost sounds like Frank, as one of the Align distributors, was/is taking a hit on warranting these packs, and he's decided to blow off consumers till the product warranty has expired and then charge them for something that was known to be defective when sold.

Not a good way to do business, or treat customers if you plan on staying in business. Maybe he thought I/we would just go away. WRONG! I/ and my club are going to make it a mission to get the word out. Here on the forums and by word of mouth, and we cover a big area.
Our club alone has members in the US, UK, Canada, Australia, Japan, and even a couple of other countries.

So there you are. Use this info on customer service when you are purchasing your new packs. You want someone to be there for you after the sale.


_____________________________

"The Missing Man Formation"
Looking heavenward you cannot help but shed a tear...mornful...lonesome...a hole that screams out almost as loudly as the roar of the engines that pass over head.
       Post #: 1

RE: How not to treat a customer - 4/2/2008 1:34:09 AM   
Stingray69



Posts: 3385
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: Maitland, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Frank at Align knows that they're bad and should replace them under any circumstances. Even past the 90 days. They go puffy after a dozen flights. Good packs treated right should last hundreds of cycles. Why they would make their customers accountable for their mfg decisions is a bad play.


_____________________________

Stingray

(in reply to Glacier Girl)
       Post #: 2

RE: How not to treat a customer - 4/2/2008 1:29:19 PM   
Glacier Girl



Posts: 6958
Joined: 7/9/2004
From: SomewhereIn, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Ray, something will come of this. I can't do much legal wise as mine were a gift, so I have no loss per say involved. But we both know a certain someone who also got taken, who will not let this go and is sure to become Align and Assurance RC's worst nightmare.

Should be interesting if he goes to the press or contacts someone like the Attorney Generals office. He at least lives in the same state. And being he's disabled and a Medal of Freedom Award receipient should not bode well for Align and Assurance R/C's treatment.

And maybe to add to my warning, I looked at Assurances site this morning, guess whats still being sold and distributed?
http://www.alignrcusa.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=290

_____________________________

"The Missing Man Formation"
Looking heavenward you cannot help but shed a tear...mornful...lonesome...a hole that screams out almost as loudly as the roar of the engines that pass over head.

(in reply to Stingray69)
       Post #: 3

RE: How not to treat a customer - 4/2/2008 3:16:19 PM   
TerryE



Posts: 2784
Joined: 8/5/2004
From: Leesburg, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Disgraceful.

Terry

_____________________________

Some people are like slinkies - Not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs

(in reply to Glacier Girl)
       Post #: 4

RE: How not to treat a customer - 4/2/2008 9:12:02 PM   
Glacier Girl



Posts: 6958
Joined: 7/9/2004
From: SomewhereIn, PA, USA
Status: offline 		And just another example of what I've run into. Here for your inspection is a copy of my first email to Frank, and his return email, from back in Feb.

----- Original Message -----
From: Frank Lock
To: Brad J. Mitchell
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: Possible problem with new packs?


When and where were they purchased?

Frank

-------Original Message-------

From: Brad J. Mitchell
Date: 2/26/2008 3:14:42 PM
To: frank@alignrcusa.com
Subject: Possible problem with new packs?

Frank,
I heard through the grapevine that there may be a problem with the new Align 3S2100 22C packs. If so I have 2 of them and would like to see about getting them replaced. Neither pack has been used, I just on Sunday soldered on the Deans connectors.
I do still have the packaging and receipt for them.

Thanks for your time,

Brad J. Mitchell



The photo is the email I received from Frank today. ???? No contact???? Then what the heck was the above email from me and the reply from Frank????
Or what about the other emails I sent to Frank with his requested copies of receipts? I can show you those too. Only thing I can't show is my phone call to Frank, unless you want me to pull my phone records too. LOL

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


< Message edited by Glacier Girl -- 4/2/2008 9:17:05 PM >

_____________________________

"The Missing Man Formation"
Looking heavenward you cannot help but shed a tear...mornful...lonesome...a hole that screams out almost as loudly as the roar of the engines that pass over head.

(in reply to TerryE)
       Post #: 5

RE: How not to treat a customer - 4/3/2008 12:01:53 AM   
rmenke


 

Posts: 1773
Joined: 6/25/2004
From: Merced, Ca., CA, USA
Status: offline
GG:

Thanks for taking the time to report this to us. You have my support in boycotting Allign, a class action suit appears warrented.

(in reply to Glacier Girl)
       Post #: 6

RE: How not to treat a customer - 4/3/2008 5:28:17 AM   
KidEpoxy



Posts: 3384
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Align.
Right, got it.

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to rmenke)
       Post #: 7

RE: How not to treat a customer - 4/21/2008 8:57:22 PM   
suitcase



Posts: 965
Joined: 6/8/2003
From: Wingina, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Maybe you all should turn this over to Greg Hahn. I'm sure he can get it resolved, after all, he accused us, AMA members and hobbiests of ragging manufactorers unfairly in his article in the AMA mag last month. According to him, I suppose we're to just turn the other cheek so to speak. I say hold this kinda of marketing up to the light and let everyone see it and decided for themselves where they want to spend their hard earned bucks.

_____________________________

Hanger:Sig Mayhem 3D w/YS110, Jerry's Big Boy w/YS110, Funtana 40 w/Saito 82, Hobby Lobby Extra 300 w/Hacker 20/20L

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 8

RE: How not to treat a customer - 4/21/2008 9:07:24 PM   
TerryE



Posts: 2784
Joined: 8/5/2004
From: Leesburg, VA, USA
Status: offline 		GG:
Any updates??

_____________________________

Some people are like slinkies - Not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs

(in reply to suitcase)
       Post #: 9

RE: How not to treat a customer - 4/21/2008 9:26:31 PM   
Glacier Girl



Posts: 6958
Joined: 7/9/2004
From: SomewhereIn, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah Terry, got an email back for Frank at Assurance r/c, stating they only are a distributor for Align, and only warranty what they sell. ???

Huh?, maybe I'm wrong here but if they (Frank/ Assurance) is/are the distributor, whom ever I got the packs from I would think had to get them from Align's distributor (Frank/ Assurance) in the US.


Unless they were secretly smuggled in thru Area 51, on an alien test hop, straight from where ever they are manufactured.

Or the Easter Bunny, no wait I got them before that, must of been Santa.

Funny thing thou on this not handling them for warranty, the kind club mate who bought these for me had his replaced by Frank at Assurance. All from the same purchace location.

So now maybe it's selective warranties.


What ever, like I said before I can handle the loss, but other's may not be able to do so, so at least the info's out on dealing with them.

_____________________________

"The Missing Man Formation"
Looking heavenward you cannot help but shed a tear...mornful...lonesome...a hole that screams out almost as loudly as the roar of the engines that pass over head.

(in reply to TerryE)
       Post #: 10

RE: How not to treat a customer - 4/22/2008 6:35:50 PM   
Swift427



Posts: 482
Joined: 3/15/2007
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Status: offline 		1. Isn’t this typical of our new global economy in which products are no longer assembled in America (being made elsewhere), but are now both made and assembled somewhere in China with Chinese corporate headquarters. (Align=HongKong). Is Frank caught between a rock and a hard place.

2. If you think you’ve been ill-treated how do you think the US distributors for Align feel? Is there a bigger picture here that eludes our own immediate self-interests and wounded pride for being ignored by someone we once believed was looking out for our best interests as a preferred customer. Besides the same LiPo manufacturer that made these questionable LiPos may be the same manufacture that makes LiPos for five other brands, all of which would have rejected the defect or mislabeling.

3. American distributors with Chinese ties and the proverbial “cut-throat competition versus profit margin” may decide their only course of action is to ignore the problem or say something more socially/politically correct like“We’re doing everything we can to resolve/address this problem (blah, blah, blah).” Maybe it’s the age old marketing gimmick that the price was too good to be true. In other words would your friend have given you these LiPos as a payback gift if they had cost as much as other top quality 3S 2100mAh 22C LiPos costing at least $89.95.

4. A bigger picture here is your own admission that “I am an R/C airplane addict, having dumped more money in birds then some 3rd world countries spend on their air forces.” My point is that whether its Frank, Tower, HobbyLobby, etc they will respond or not respond to a customer depending on a variety of issues too voluminous to even try to simplify here for internet attention deficit disorder viewing.

5. With that said I believe you are doing the right thing, but don’t let it get the best of you. It may be a simple matter that Align=HongKong took Frank (as a US distributor) for an easy mark by selling them a ton of LiPos that Align=HongKong knew were defective or mislabeled. Align got their $$$ in exchange for what Frank thought was a good deal only to later discover that his company’s compulsive sales ethics were skewed a little too much toward me,myself,and i profit margin than customer satisfaction.

6. It’s possible that the same LiPo manufacturing facility that makes up packs for others knew darn well that they could never get away pawning off mislabeled LiPos or defective packs to E-flite, Electrifly, CommonSenseRC or even as Polyquests to CBPs, Isn’t that the China lesson we need to be occasionally reminded of: If it’s too good of a deal = Buyer Beware.

7. What my enquiring mind would like to know is this: Are the packs defective or are they mislabeled? In other words are they actually a 12C or 15C pack and will function perfectly fine at 12C pack? How does your “defective” Align pack match up in dimension and weight to other 2100mAh 22C packs? Are your Align packs actually defective or more likely mislabeled at too high a capacity rating?

8. These batteries were gifts to you. Is the person who gave you these two LiPos bearing this torch as boldly as you? If not, Why? Maybe, you just need to let it go before you bring even more discomfort to a friend who may now feel like he’s caught between a rock and a hard place.

9. If I was this friend and had learned of the amount of time and effort you’ve expended on this gift gone bad I couldn’t help, but wonder if you felt like you somehow got cheated and I(as the friend) was partially responsible.

10. Friendships are more important than trying to prove your friendship by trying to prove someone else’s business ethics as unethical. Let it go. Afterall, “business ethics” will always be a two-edged sword if not an oxymoron. Then again I could be wrong and your friend paid $95 for each pack, and all the time I spent composing this reply was not that constructive or helpful.

I was going to setup a PayPal account so I could buy a couple items from Align in HongKong. After a few emails back & forth with Align and phone call with a PayPal rep I decided the path I was pursuing was one I could live without and possibly be better off or no worst off for never buying direct from China or ever needing to use a PayPal account.

_____________________________

Never Give Up, Never Slow Down, Never Grow Old, and Never Ever Die Young

(in reply to Glacier Girl)
       Post #: 11

RE: How not to treat a customer - 4/22/2008 8:36:55 PM   
Glacier Girl



Posts: 6958
Joined: 7/9/2004
From: SomewhereIn, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Swift,

You are absolutly right, I honestly feel that Frank, as you had stated bought into a to good to be true, load of packs. And when the warranty claims started comming in, he/ they found out the so called deal was now costing them money. So much for a quick profit.

And so the now changing warranty policies.

And yep you are right you take a chance with the so called China stuff, sometimes you get burnt. As a consumer you took a chance and it didn't work, no one to blame except yourself.

Then again, if a company does the same, they have two choices. One, take care of their customer, at a loss. Or ignior or blow off the customer. One company may take a hit now, but live to stay in business as customers will return to a place that does take care of them.
Second company will loose out on multiple ends. Stock no one wants, and no business from past and future customers, as their cost saving measure kills them.


As for my packs. Honestly I've never used them, just in case something came about. They still sit in the packaging they came in. So I can't really answer on what they will or won't do.

And just now I thought of something. Look back at my first email. I asked if they were ok to use, and if not, could they be replaced. Never got told they were good or not good.

For all I know these packs could be perfectly fine for my useage. Heck could have been easy for Frank just to have lied to me, and told me they were ok. Instead of just ignoiring me.



Anyhow, I have no hard feelings towards my friend. What he did was unasked for. He was just giving me something in return for something I had sent him. And he was the one who told me of the problem and who to talk to to get them replaced.

Otherwise, if I had used the packs and they went poof, I would have just blamed myself.

Nah no bad feeling here. You would have to know the characters that make up our club, I don't think one of us could ever harbor hard feelings towards another one. But that's just us.
We're like family. We can screw around with any of the other members, but heaven help an outsider who messes with family.

_____________________________

"The Missing Man Formation"
Looking heavenward you cannot help but shed a tear...mornful...lonesome...a hole that screams out almost as loudly as the roar of the engines that pass over head.

(in reply to Swift427)
       Post #: 12

RE: How not to treat a customer - 4/22/2008 9:07:05 PM   
Swift427



Posts: 482
Joined: 3/15/2007
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Status: offline 		A couple years ago I bought some XPVs to play/mod with. I called Jacks in California to find out if they sell just the little 7.4v LiPo and if so how much it costs. I was then told that they had gotten some complaints that the LiPos I had (ones in black protective case) were supposedly defective. They sent me a pre-postage paid envelope to use for returning my three LiPos and said they were expecting a new shipment from their overseas supplier anytime and would send me free replacements. All I needed to do was to first mail them my questionable LiPos.

Well, I never mailed them in as there really wasn't anything wrong with them. My guess is that some of the hotshots that bought these XPVs were misusing/abusing the batteries. I think the new LiPos have a builtin safety device that limits a hotshots ability to improvise.

Anyway, what impressed me was here is a toy plane company that realized their responsibility to be PROactice to the point of assuming all these LiPos were defective when it may have been more an issure of misuse/abuse by 'know enough to be dangerous' big kids.

_____________________________

Never Give Up, Never Slow Down, Never Grow Old, and Never Ever Die Young

(in reply to Glacier Girl)
       Post #: 13

RE: How not to treat a customer - 4/22/2008 11:02:22 PM