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RE: Spicoli.... - 8/27/2004 5:19:14 PM   
Rudeboy



Posts: 3256
Joined: 12/9/2002
From: Bejing, BELGIUM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Flyboy Dave

....Coolpower is the fuel mixer....what is the actual
brand of synthetic oil that they use....? There's probably
a couple dozen brands of synthetic oil on the market. I
said that I've never seen an engine manufacturer say
to run only synthetics in their engines. My new Magnum
1.80 manual states expressly not to use synthetic oil.




I have also never seen an engine manufacturer state that you should use a particular brand of Castor...

I am 100% convinced that they say you have to use castor, because it is the easiest thing to say. The synth/castor debate has been stretched soooo far...
Castor is a tried lubricant. They say use it, because there is the least chance of something going wrong (as in BAD castor oil).

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       Post #: 51

RE: break in with synthetic oils?? - 8/27/2004 5:35:34 PM   
Spicoli


 

Posts: 474
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: TERRACE, BC,
Status: offline 		Flyboy,
Let me get this right,You have been in this hobby for 34 years and have never seen a engine broke in with Coolpower?
From what I can make out you also believe Dub Jett does not know what he is talking about.

(in reply to ZebraOne)
       Post #: 52

RE: Spicoli.... - 8/27/2004 5:37:16 PM   
Flyboy Dave



Posts: 13447
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: online 		There is only one type or "brand" of castor. It all comes from the same place.

....only the label on the container differs, the contents are the same.

FBD.

_____________________________

An engineer says.... "That won''t work".
A mechanic says..."Oh yeah, watch this".
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Revver Bro #4.

(in reply to Rudeboy)
       Post #: 53

RE: break in with synthetic oils?? - 8/27/2004 9:22:33 PM   
wldcwbypilot


 

Posts: 467
Joined: 9/29/2003
From: Corpus Christi, TX, USA
Status: offline 		To answer the original question, larger bore engines are usually broken in with a castor/synthetic blend. It does not preclude that you can't break in using synthetic only. I fly mostly larger planes these days, none with gas engines, yet. All of you have a piece of the puzzle but haven't hit the nail on the head. This is my hypothesis, the con rod gets fatigued or bent during operation. As the rod gets more and more out of whack it finally gives out and cracks. I have seen aircraft engines gall the lower journal and crankshaft during lean runs at break in. So it is possible for the con rod to break or explode at this time.

I also know that the smaller glow engine used in boats and cars are broken in using a pure synthetic oil fuel. They also use less oil in the fuel mix, because the smaller engines can't take being loaded up with fuel. They bend con rods easily.

Finally, ask your fuel suppliers about a Super Tiger fuel mix for larger two stroke engines.
Have fun flying.

will

(in reply to Flyboy Dave)
       Post #: 54

RE: break in with synthetic oils?? - 8/28/2004 7:15:52 AM   
Flyboy Dave



Posts: 13447
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spicoli

Flyboy,
Let me get this right,You have been in this hobby for 34 years and have never
seen a engine broke in with Coolpower?

From what I can make out you also believe Dub Jett does not know what he is
talking about.



1. Yep
2. Nope

FBD.

_____________________________

An engineer says.... "That won''t work".
A mechanic says..."Oh yeah, watch this".
"Old Age, and Treachery will overcome youth and skill".
Revver Bro #4.

(in reply to Spicoli)
       Post #: 55

RE: Spicoli.... - 8/28/2004 6:35:57 PM   
jaka


 

Posts: 4524
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Upplands Vasby, SWEDEN
Status: offline 		Hi!
Of course you can use synthetic oil to run in an engine!!!
I use 15% Motul "Micro" all synthetic oil in all my engines ..from the smallest Cox "Black widow! to my largest 15cc MVVS in my GP GEE-BEE R-2 and MVVS 25cc in my SIG CAP 231 EX.
Over here most people blend their own fuel then you can use the best oil available and don't have too settle for second class products .
Many fliers over here in Sweden ...and in Europe use less synthetic oil than I do ...10% is common and engines like it...but I'm a bit cautious.... so I stay with 15% oil, 5% nitro and 80% methanol.
Try the French oil brand Motul...(Motul "micro" it works so good so you won't go back to old castor oil again. But do not run it in engines that has been run on castor oil!

Regards!
Jan K
Sweden

(in reply to Flyboy Dave)
       Post #: 56

RE: break in with synthetic oils?? - 8/29/2004 4:58:54 AM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7710
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		This thing about not running ABC engines at a four stroke is really only pertinent when breaking in a tight ABC engine. The piston grabbing at the top can cause the rod to break. After break in you can reliably run an ABC engine at a four cycle. In fact the control line stunt people do this all the time. Also when the fit is not so tight you can break in an ABC engine with a rich four stroke mixture. In fact OS says so in their manual. I saw some one break in their OS this way about a month ago. Seemed to work OK. We can talk this to death, but actually throwing a rod or ruining and ABC engine by four stroking it during break in is very rare.

(in reply to fancman)
       Post #: 57

RE: break in with synthetic oils?? - 8/29/2004 8:00:45 AM   
DarZeelon



Posts: 7079
Joined: 4/9/2003
From: Rosh-Ha'Ayin, ISRAEL
Status: online 		Hugh,


Yes, this discussion can go on for ever and ever.

I agree with you about the fact that after break-in is completed, tapered-bore engines can be run, without any limitation, at a four-cycle rich mixture setting. I have written it specifically in the tapered-bore break-in thread.

But even the C/L flyers, who regularly fly at four-cycle settings, should and actually do the break-in, at a rich two-cycle setting.

However, about the generically written OS manual, telling you to do the break-in alternating between two-cycle and four-cycle; it has been specifically contradicted by AnnMarie Cross and by Bill Baxter, of the US rep for OS, Hobby Services.

Even the OS Q&A (question #2), in the web site specifically tells you not to break-in their ABN engines, at a four-cycle rich setting.
It also tells you that the fuel must contain some Castor oil.

So if you stand by the OS manual, insisting it is correct; you are also contradicting the OS 'brass' (not the B in ABN...).

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(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 58

RE: break in with synthetic oils?? - 8/30/2004 4:17:41 AM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7710
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

; it has been specifically contradicted by AnnMarie Cross and by Bill Baxter, of the US rep for OS, Hobby Services.


Yet OS refuses to change the manual, and many are broken in at a rich four stroke without any problems. If the fit is not that tight to begin with, it works.

(in reply to DarZeelon)
       Post #: 59

RE: break in with synthetic oils?? - 8/30/2004 6:54:35 AM   
DarZeelon



Posts: 7079
Joined: 4/9/2003
From: Rosh-Ha'Ayin, ISRAEL
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

Yet OS refuses to change the manual, and many are broken in at a rich four stroke without any problems. If the fit is not that tight to begin with, it works.



Don't you think this policy is stupid? But, some of them eventually peel their nickel...

An engine made loose enough to be 'fool proof', will never be able to run as well as a tight, properly broken-in engine.

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MVVS - Jett - Nelson - Bolly - Mejzlik

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 60

RE: break in with synthetic oils?? - 8/30/2004 8:13:15 PM   
JoeAirPort



Posts: 7126
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Milwaukee, WI, USA
Status: offline 		I did my YS 63 break in with 20% synthetic oil and the engine runs great after 5 gallons. I used WildCat 30/18. It's good to add more oil if it's a 4-stroke like a Saito or YS.

(in reply to DarZeelon)
       Post #: 61

RE: break in with synthetic oils?? - 8/30/2004 8:24:31 PM   
Ernie Misner


 

Posts: 3158
Joined: 7/5/2002
From: Tacoma, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Here in the USA, we don't have sub standard synthetic oil. Klotz synthetic is the top choice of most of our fuel manufacturers, and they could use any oil out there.

Ernie

(in reply to DarZeelon)
       Post #: 62

RE: break in with synthetic oils?? - 8/31/2004 12:57:48 AM   
Rudeboy



Posts: 3256
Joined: 12/9/2002
From: Bejing, BELGIUM
Status: offline 		Look what I broke in yesterday... using 20% substandard synthetic oil from Germany and 15% American nitro... doing about 22000 rpm...

Of course with this thing it doesn't matter so much what you use... since the guy who makes these things is "full of it" and doesn't know what he is talking about...

Funny thing is: for some reason the piston seems to get stuck once it gets up past the exhaust port. Maybe I should take some grinding compound and loosen it up some... Yeah right!

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       Post #: 63

RE: break in with synthetic oils?? - 8/31/2004 2:46:41 AM   
ZAGNUT



Posts: 2436
Joined: 2/26/2003
From: tel-aviv, ISRAEL
Status: offline 		yuck!! is Jett too cheap to cast his engines anymore??


dave



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       Post #: 64

RE: break in with synthetic oils?? - 9/1/2004 2:37:53 PM   
bob27s



Posts: 4819
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: Cleveland, OH, USA
Status: offline