RE: Graupner Kwik Fli MKIII

RE: Graupner Kwik Fli MKIII
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RE: Graupner Kwik Fli MKIII - 4/4/2008 4:46:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bdavison

5lb sounds more like a reasonable wingloading highplains.

Are you KIDDING??? Seriously? 5lbs? Why don't you try to learn what you are talking about? Whatever types of aircraft you intend on or enjoy flying, a basic knowledge of how to calculate wing loading, and the effects of saved or added weight on your airframe, can add to your modeling enjoyment.

It would be nice if you would take your comments to another forum or find something constructive to add here. I was hoping to learn about the topic of this thread(Graupner Kwik Fli I think), but have only been subjected to your ignorant post. Why don't you move back on over to the flying circus and moderate with your vast knowledge of aircraft design and principles of flight?

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(in reply to bdavison)

RE: Graupner Kwik Fli MKIII - 4/4/2008 5:02:11 AM

WEDJ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Free Bird

Guys, guys, guys - lets stay with the topic and not throw stones at each other! Opinions are just like belly buttons, we all have them. What worked for one, may not work for some one else. We all can agree that the Kwik Fli series of models were outstanding ships in their day. Lets leave it at that!

FB

Well said. The pattern planes of the 60s-70s might be called lead sleds, but they flew beautifully. That why this forum is CLASSIC pattern

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RE: Graupner Kwik Fli MKIII - 4/4/2008 3:26:58 PM

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LS,
Are you saying that 5lbs isnt possible?
Highplains posted a thread about one that was 5.1lbs, and in that thread it flew well.

So obviously its possible, and works well.
Either you are calling him a liar for saying his plane was 5.1lbs, or you're the one that doesnt understand wing loadings. Or perhaps you just felt like joining in the conversation in the only way you know how...by blasting someone else with nonsense.

Im not sure why I was on the recieving end of these attacks, since it was not I who originally said the plane was a lead sled. Unless, you consider my posts to carry more weight and creditability in which case Im flattered.

So feel free to flame me at will. I'll take it as a compliment.

Back to the subject...
Has anyone built one of the ARFs yet? If so, can you post the individual weights of the parts.

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RE: Graupner Kwik Fli MKIII - 4/4/2008 3:37:44 PM

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From: Somewhere Out There, USA
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quote:

Are you KIDDING??? Seriously? 5lbs? Why don't you try to learn what you are talking about? Whatever types of aircraft you intend on or enjoy flying, a basic knowledge of how to calculate wing loading, and the effects of saved or added weight on your airframe, can add to your modeling enjoyment.

It would be nice if you would take your comments to another forum or find something constructive to add here. I was hoping to learn about the topic of this thread(Graupner Kwik Fli I think), but have only been subjected to your ignorant post. Why don't you move back on over to the flying circus and moderate with your vast knowledge of aircraft design and principles of flight?

quote:

LS,
Are you saying that 5lbs isnt possible?
Highplains posted a thread about one that was 5.1lbs, and in that thread it flew well.

So obviously its possible, and works well.
Either you are calling him a liar for saying his plane was 5.1lbs, or you're the one that doesnt understand wing loadings. Or perhaps you just felt like joining in the conversation in the only way you know how...by blasting someone else with nonsense.

Im not sure why I was on the recieving end of these attacks, since it was not I who originally said the plane was a lead sled. Unless, you consider my posts to carry more weight and creditability in which case Im flattered.

So feel free to flame me at will. I'll take it as a compliment.

This is getting ridiculous! The thread was started to show that there's another classic in ARF form. No more, no less. Please take your bickering else where, unless you have anything constructive to add about the subject matter, a Graupner Kwik Fli MKIII. Thank you.

(in reply to bdavison)

RE: Graupner Kwik Fli MKIII - 4/4/2008 4:46:47 PM

roo

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In the longtime past I owned and built two of the Graupner Kwik Fli Mk 111 kits which were produced around the same time as the Top Flite versions. The Graupner ones tended to come out heavier being of teutonic origin and suffered accordingly in the verticals but the kits were superb for their time. ONEWASP in post no 10 states " I saw Phils @ 5.5lbs and knew(now also deceased) Dan Lutz who built Phil,s A/C." IF this is true and I say IF I am rather disillusioned to say the least, as IF Phil Kraft flew a model which he did not build himself to become 1967 world champ then it follows that he did not play fair because the BOM (builder of the model) rule was in place at that time. The fact that many others have done the same before and since does none of them any credit. I have always held the late Phil Kraft in very high esteem both for his designs and for his radios. I very much hope that Phil competed with a model he built himself and I will continue to believe he did unless there exists proof to the contrary. I also hope that I am drawing the wrong conclusion from ONEWASP,s statement. Paul Brennan.

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RE: Graupner Kwik Fli MKIII - 4/4/2008 6:06:23 PM

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I was not aware that a BOM rule was ever in place.

I'm sure of one thing though. If we had it today, the face of pattern would be entirely different.

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RE: Graupner Kwik Fli MKIII - 4/4/2008 6:11:54 PM

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I thought I'd research this, and apparently you can build a 5 lb. Mojo .60 3D plane. Granted, it's got a profile fuselage, and a built up wing. I bet you could build a Kwik Fli at the same weight with a light 2-stroke engine, conscientious wood selection, etc. You could make a composite vacuum bagged wing like the Hand Launch Glider guys, use a LiPo receiver pack, turn it into a (shudder) tail dragger. There are lots of options for saving weight.

Tom

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< Message edited by Trisquire -- 4/4/2008 6:16:38 PM >

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RE: Graupner Kwik Fli MKIII - 4/4/2008 6:50:15 PM

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Grotto...
WOW...would that really mess some folks up.

If some of the top guys had to build their own planes...LOL...
I know a couple of them that would be screwed.

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RE: Graupner Kwik Fli MKIII - 4/4/2008 10:47:54 PM

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The original Kaos with a Veco 61, Kraft Gold Medal Radio and KPS 9 servos.. 450 mah 4 cell NiCad tipped the scales at 6.25 pounds... and for the type of pattern of the day.. it was almost too light... remember... no turnaround back then...

My Gary Wright E3D is about 600 square inches.. and weighed 3.25 pounds....

Times change.

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RE: Graupner Kwik Fli MKIII - 4/4/2008 11:55:22 PM

RFJ

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quote:

I very much hope that Phil competed with a model he built himself

I would be very surprised if more than a handful of the top pilots at any F3A World Champs (including Phil Kraft) completly built the models they flew. I know two pilots at one W/C who didn't build theirs - because I did!

Ray

(in reply to mithrandir)

RE: Graupner Kwik Fli MKIII - 4/5/2008 2:10:32 AM

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roo
See your PM's

< Message edited by onewasp -- 4/5/2008 3:33:04 PM >

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RE: Graupner Kwik Fli MKIII - 4/5/2008 11:59:10 AM

RCDENT

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I had 3 Kwik Fli's back in the day. The KF "is what it is" - a basic, honest, and reliable design developed in an era of extremely rapid changes in R/C technology. Even Phil Kraft moved on. I have two sets of plans, sent to me by the man himself, of airplanes designed after the KF. The KF remains a timeless classic that can still provide a lot of enjoyment. There is no good or bad, right or wrong in this discussion. Ballistic style, SPA, turnaround, or 3D all take skill to perform well. When I go to a full size airshow, I enjoy the Pitts Special acts as well as the Thunderbirds. Now, everybody shake hands and go enjoy this great and versatile hobby!

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RE: Graupner Kwik Fli MKIII - 4/5/2008 6:32:10 PM

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Hey guys- I just uploaded a pic of my old Kwik-Fli. There was some discussion of the weight. I built several of these over 40 yrs ago (KF ll & lll). I never had one under 7 lbs. The heavier one I built was a KF ll. It was the best of the bunch until the plane that I show pictured (I hope it up-loaded O:K). Keep in mind that the radios back then were heavier than now (I'm pretty sure because I'm just getting back into this hobby after a long hiatus). I'm curious to see if the Graupner performs anything like the original. The one pictured is a Jensen wing mated with a Graupner fuse. C.F. Lee Veco .61 power. Climbed like a homesick angel! Weighed about 7.5 lbs. It met it's demise, sadly, when someone turned their transmitter on while I was airborn. Three years and lotsa elbow grease, then in 4 flights it was toast.

George

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RE: Graupner Kwik Fli MKIII - 4/6/2008 1:01:49 AM

8178

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I’m not a big fan of ARFs but think it’s OK a few manufacturers are trying to make them look like our favorite “Classics”. There are a few RCers that don’t know how to or don’t want to build from plans or kits and these ARFs might fill that need. Expect 99.99% of the flyers of “Classics” know very well how to build them though! That said, I don’t understand why ARF manufacturers don’t do a better job of duplicating the original shape of the design and build and cover them so they don’t fall apart in a few flights. What’s odd, is Graupner did a great job on their original kit but the nose on the ARF is so far off it is ridiculous including the thrust line being way too high. Hate to see a grand old design butchered.

You would think that with the expense it takes to put an ARF into production they would take the time to find someone that knows the design. Probably one of the typical Chinese jobs.

I guess the best news about the current run of ARFs is that most of them are not worth buying and that keeps the precious few “Classic” kit manufacturers we have in business.

(in reply to glogar2)

RE: Graupner Kwik Fli MKIII - 6/18/2008 10:20:00 PM

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I bought one of the Kwik Fly ARF's from HL's crash sale. I don't know what to expect because I've never bought a Graupner model before. After reading this thread I'm thinking I might have made a mistake. I thought it was a pretty good deal...

Thought about using one of these HB engines to power it.

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RE: Graupner Kwik Fli MKIII - 6/18/2008 11:13:44 PM

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