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RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build - 5/5/2008 6:32:38 AM   
SMUGator



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No worries, Scott. We got an unexpectedly beautiful day up here, so I decided to go play golf at the last minute. You would have missed me in either case. Remind me if anyone has signed up to build-up the cockpit kit. If not, I may take a shot a building that up soon. I sent e-mail to the group with some thoughts on this, so if you didn't get it, please let me know and we will get you added to the distribution.

Tom

< Message edited by SMUGator -- 5/5/2008 8:50:29 AM >


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Currently building a 1/6 Scale F4U-1A Corsair (BuNo 17777) and finishing a TF 1/8 Corsair

(in reply to saramos)
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RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build - 5/5/2008 9:38:43 AM   
SMUGator



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quote:

ORIGINAL: saramos

Chad, are you planning on skinning everything, then simulating fabric? I was thinking that I might go that route and skin it all with .010 G10. That'll give me a finished surface ready for priming an detailing. I'll do the vert and horz stabs at the least.



I'm leaning toward skinning the control surfaces and simulating cloth with primer. With any luck, I'll get it done on my 1/8 in the next couple of weeks and we can take a look and see how we like it.

Tom


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Currently building a 1/6 Scale F4U-1A Corsair (BuNo 17777) and finishing a TF 1/8 Corsair

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RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build - 5/5/2008 12:08:49 PM   
Remklep



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quote:

ORIGINAL: SMUGator

I'm leaning toward skinning the control surfaces and simulating cloth with primer. With any luck, I'll get it done on my 1/8 in the next couple of weeks and we can take a look and see how we like it.

Tom



Just curious, why would you hard-skin and then simulate cloth covering?
Wouldn't all the details of the rudder and elevator-construction be lost?
Or am I misunderstanding something here?

Cheers,

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Danny "Remklep" Busch
Its better to beg for forgiveness, than to ask for permission.

(in reply to SMUGator)
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RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build - 5/5/2008 3:17:26 PM   
saramos



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I've found that when I covered with a fabric material, the look I get is the look I get, with little chance to make any changes. Often, the structure comes out too exaggerated, or is hidden. When you skin, then simulate the look, you can match the look more readily to your docs.
Plus, for me personally, I find when I use a shrink type fabric, I have a tendancy to introduce twists into the surfaces.

Scott

(in reply to Remklep)
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RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build - 5/5/2008 3:30:45 PM   
Remklep



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I'm sorry Scott, I guess I don't fully understand what you mean by skinning.
Could you explain it to me?
As I understand it, you were going to cover the elevators and rudder with a thin but hard material, thereby losing all scale detail of the underlying structure.

Cheers,

_____________________________

Danny "Remklep" Busch
Its better to beg for forgiveness, than to ask for permission.

(in reply to saramos)
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RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build - 5/5/2008 3:41:09 PM   
Chad Veich



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quote:

ORIGINAL: saramos

Chad, are you planning on skinning everything, then simulating fabric? I was thinking that I might go that route and skin it all with .010 G10.


No, I will be finishing with actual fabric over the wood structure. If you decide to skin the rudder and elevators with G10 then you won't need the 1/64" plywood skins shown on my elevator above.


quote:

ORIGINAL: saramos
Btw Chad, if you happen to be in LA on the 17th and 18th, come on down to the Sepulveda basin for the Spring 2008 LA Jets event.


Won't be there unfortunately, should be back here by Thursday at the latest. I wanted to push it back so that I could be down there on the 17th and 18th but not for the jet event. That's the weekend of the Planes of Fame airshow! I've only missed a few of those since 1990 but it looks like I won't make it this year.

Well, I'm off gents. See you all in a few days.

Chad

(in reply to saramos)
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RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build - 5/5/2008 5:26:29 PM   
SMUGator



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Remklep

I'm sorry Scott, I guess I don't fully understand what you mean by skinning.
Could you explain it to me?
As I understand it, you were going to cover the elevators and rudder with a thin but hard material, thereby losing all scale detail of the underlying structure.

Cheers,


This is a topic that Dave Platt covers in the Detailing and Painting series of videos. His conclusion after years of building scale models is that he could never get iron on or doped fabric to look like the full scale, no matter what he tried to do with the underlying structure. After some experimentation, he concluded that he got more realistic looking results by starting with a solid surface and building up the detail by masking and applying primer over the glassed surface. Tom Pierce is the only person that I've seen do it this way online. You can see his approach on his FW 190 build here. I'll be doing it this way on my 1/8 TF build in the next few weeks, so I plan to take a look at those results before I make a final decision on which way to go. I'll point you to those photos on another thread when I get to that point.

Tom

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Currently building a 1/6 Scale F4U-1A Corsair (BuNo 17777) and finishing a TF 1/8 Corsair

(in reply to Remklep)
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RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build - 5/5/2008 9:09:05 PM   
Remklep



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Hmm, interesting.
I have seen Tom Pierce's website, in fact I have downloaded both the FW190 and the Dauntless builds for the great tips and techniques he uses.
I am building the tailfeathers the comming days, I'll cover the elevators with fabric to see how they turn out.

Cheers,

_____________________________

Danny "Remklep" Busch
Its better to beg for forgiveness, than to ask for permission.

(in reply to SMUGator)
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RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build - 5/5/2008 11:18:59 PM   
Remklep



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Gents,

I am compiling a list of suitable engines, complete with size, weight, recommended props and rpms.
In the list so far I have 12 engines from Laser, Zenoah, DA, Saito, OS Max and YS.

If any of you have suggestions for more brands let me know and I'll add them to the list.
I will publish the list in a week or so, when I have some more options.

Cheers,

< Message edited by Remklep -- 5/5/2008 11:25:34 PM >


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Danny "Remklep" Busch
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RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build - 5/5/2008 11:44:40 PM   
Riddle4U


 

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Chad, I'll also cover tail control surfaces ( SIG koverall probably). I like Tom Pierce's method also (heavier). If you look at the nice photos posted of the tail (full size) by several here, you can see the surface comes out pretty flat on the real one. I think that will likely be duplicated with our open structure as it stands. One can still cut thin strips of covering material and iron on in the scale locations as per the real reinforcement strips. As Dave Platt says often, it may be more important to "look right" than to be right, so takes yer choice.

Edit: I just looked at all the full scale tail pictures again here. It looks like they use a batten of some kind over the fastened rib areas (not sewn). It doesn't look much like Mr. Pierce's Dauntless detailing. I'd just cut narrow strips of thin styrene, and add reinforcement strips of covering (we need a collection jar for everyone's $.02).

One new thing I haven't seen a Corsair yet where the fabric sags on the wing (wish I did). It is a fun effect, but doesn't show on any pictures I've seen. That said, I will use fabric in those areas also. If all else fails, I still like the original designers choice for fabric on a weight basis. We can make a museum piece out of our models and have it snap into the ground due to weight alone. Every area we add weight for scale effect needs equal diligence to manage it in other areas to make up for it. Very doable in my opinion, particularly at this scale. G10 is heavy in my opinion. When it comes time to balance our models, I just don't hope to see people adding lead to the nose on this one. One ounce in the tail is six ounces to balance in the nose (or so). I love Pierce's tutorial, it is stock scale technique that goes back a quarter century. I love that he has shared some of those techniques so that we can all carry on, and create great looking models. His Dauntless was too heavy (he thought). One might have extended the life of that model with smoother experienced flying, as he admits (I may have done worse). We will all benefit in making the lightest model we can. That is my criticism on the G10 idea is all, and I appreciate your thoughts Tom! Just adding to our collaboration, and not intending to disuade anyone on preferences at all...go for it! - Eric

< Message edited by Riddle4U -- 5/7/2008 7:39:16 AM >

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RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build - 5/6/2008 8:47:50 AM   
SMUGator



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Riddle4U

Edit: I just looked at all the full scale tail pictures again here. It looks like they use a batten of some kind over the fastened rib areas (not sewn). It doesn't look much like Mr. Pierce's Dauntless detailing. I'd just cut narrow strips of thin styrene, and add reinforcement strips of covering (we need a collection jar for everyone's $.02).


You shouldn't look at Tom Pierce's approach and try to apply it step by step to the current project. It's just the best online example I have seen of simulating cloth surfaces on a solid surface. I find that I like what Platt has to say about this, but I've never done it. That will change in a couple of weeks and we'll see how I do.

Edited: As for our project, we don't have to guess. One guy can simulate a couple of bays with primer and another guy can do the same with cloth, then compare. Looks, weight, etc. That's one thing I like about this project. There are a lot of guys that have some ideas and things they've been taught. We can compare things side by side in a controlled environment and then each can form their own opinion about the trade-offs. I did a lot of hard work on the tailwheel, and I think Scott has already come up with some different ideas. That's how progress happens, but you have to be willing to experiment, and throw some things in the trash once in a while.

Tom

< Message edited by SMUGator -- 5/6/2008 9:41:06 AM >


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Currently building a 1/6 Scale F4U-1A Corsair (BuNo 17777) and finishing a TF 1/8 Corsair

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RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build - 5/7/2008 12:24:31 AM   
saramos



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I've always liked trying something different, but also like collaboration. This can lead to variations, but I don't think they're mutually exclusive. As has been said many times. There's more than one way to skin a ca.., uh, Corsair[)]

Scott


< Message edited by saramos -- 5/7/2008 3:30:39 PM >

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RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build - 5/7/2008 6:36:56 AM   
Riddle4U


 

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I am all for all trying different things..just giving my thoughts is all. Concurring.

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RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build - 5/9/2008 7:49:12 AM   
Riddle4U


 

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Chad, sounds like you're out of town for a bit. If you can, is there anything you could show on the fuselage..vis a vis optional stringers or other thoughts? I will send you compensation on the tail kit immiediately; sounds like nothing major on Richard's beta build as far as issues. I am waiting on bench sander to shape TW parts now.

I want to thank Tom and Scott and others on posting TW progress (not to leave anyone out). Great work, and I am sure it will help bring others up to speed. Very inspiring results!

Special thanks to Sam, as he sent me some spacers, e.t.c. for the TW. I hope to show my progress soon.

Good luck, and best wishes to all.

(in reply to Riddle4U)