park pilot legal logo

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mongo -> park pilot legal logo (4/10/2008 7:08:12 PM)
oh boy, now all the worries about the legalities of park pilot member planes are solved. just look for the logo. http://www.modelaircraft.org/parkflyer/Legal_Aircraft.aspx

littlecrankshaf -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/10/2008 7:25:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mongo oh boy, now all the worries about the legalities of park pilot member planes are solved. just look for the logo. http://www.modelaircraft.org/parkflyer/Legal_Aircraft.aspx Right on time...legaleesing and licensing the hobby to death. Q.Does your model have the mark? A. Well…No. Directive: you must not fly you loser.

The Toolman -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/10/2008 7:28:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf quote: ORIGINAL: mongo oh boy, now all the worries about the legalities of park pilot member planes are solved. just look for the logo. http://www.modelaircraft.org/parkflyer/Legal_Aircraft.aspx Right on time...legaleesing and licensing the hobby to death. Q.Does your model have the mark? A. Well…No. Directive: you must not fly you loser. They need to change the "Bringing modelers together" to "We Fly Cheap" Ronnie

SSRCCPREZ -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/10/2008 7:33:22 PM)
Love the logo!!! Looks great and a nice addition to the program. Looking forward to seeing these logos on the tail feathers of all Parker flyrs!!! Let's give the AMA the due they deserve. This looks great and solves a few problems.

littlecrankshaf -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/10/2008 7:51:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SSRCCPREZ Looking forward to seeing these logos on the tail feathers of all Parker flyrs!!! That pretty much precludes someone from building their own PF...must come in the box! the hobby takes another hit. Now for my opioion; Hate the logo!!! Looks like crap and is another flawed addition to the program. Not looking forward to seeing these logos on the tail feathers of any Parker flyer!!! Let's give the AMA the due they deserve. This looks terrible and creates a few more problems.

KidEpoxy -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/10/2008 8:29:44 PM)
The logo idea is kinda a good idea. But I cite the V8 Vega as able to say it is frugal because it is a Vega, as long as you dont notice the 400hp bigblock aftermarket engine. How do the stickers know if the 60w geared can is still in the foamie, or an aftermarket 350w Brushless. Kinda rough on the bluecore FFF cutting guys too, do they get stickers? Stickers will help newbies pick planes, that is true & good, but it doesnt come close to solving any enforcement issues because it only applies to Stock models. Will SO's be tearing the stickers off planes that swap motors from 60w to 350w with a 7x6 prop? Helpful, but not all-solving.

littlecrankshaf -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/10/2008 8:39:33 PM)
Seriously, if I manufactured RTF models I would be more than hesitant to attest that a model I produced could never exceed 60 mph or would never weigh more than 2 pounds. Repairs, mods, and battery choices are infinite and might be construed against me unless I had the purchaser sign some legalese BS document. From manufactures app for logo use: ”Park flyer models will weigh 2 pounds or less and be incapable of reaching speeds greater than 60 mph”

P-51B -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/10/2008 9:25:21 PM)
I think I'll print some up to put on my DA-50 powered extra....[>:]

Acs_guitars -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/10/2008 9:38:12 PM)
Some of you guys will complain no matter what the AMA does.... There are guys like this at the field and when I talk to them, I really don't put any weight to anything they say. Smile and Nodd.... [sm=75_75.gif] This is not to be the mark that all AMA clubs will look for, but it does help in the definition of what they allow. Compare sizes, power plants, and performance of the labeled models to the scratch builds. It is simple and a good idea, this is not the rise to Nazi power that you imply.[&:]

kid chuckles -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/11/2008 2:21:13 AM)
And where does it say anything about putting this logo on tail of the plane. It is just trying to make it easier for the Park Flyers to identify a plane that fits into the catagory. This will be a great help to those of us that are not sure about a plane and that way we don't show up at the field with a plane that is to big. What in the world could possibly be wrong with that. No where does it say anything about a plane you scratch build having to have any logo. I don't have a scale and so I really don't know what a plane actually weighs when i get one of them fine ARF 's put together (did not say build for you modeler types). I don't know the actual weight of my 100 size planes either lol. But wanting to put the logo on the boxes is a Great Idea would make it so easy. Did you guys read it?

PLANE JIM -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/11/2008 3:12:39 AM)
Mr Park Ranger: (and everyone just can add to the opening conversation)

littlecrankshaf -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/11/2008 11:26:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Acs_guitars Some of you guys will complain no matter what the AMA does.... There are guys like this at the field and when I talk to them, I really don't put any weight to anything they say. Smile and Nodd.... [sm=75_75.gif] This is not to be the mark that all AMA clubs will look for, but it does help in the definition of what they allow. Compare sizes, power plants, and performance of the labeled models to the scratch builds. It is simple and a good idea, this is not the rise to Nazi power that you imply.[&:] The problem is simple. If AMA is successful with this campaign all park flyers will be defined as they (the AMA) sees fit. 1/2A will not be generally accepted as park flyers any longer. Those slightly heavier but slower flying models or those slightly faster but lighter models will be precluded as well. Every venue is unique and to define the model for all venues is ludicrous and will have far reaching negative consequences beyond these good intentions (road to hell). I started flying slightly heaver but slower flying models with 1/2 a in parks long before park flying was even a term…there was nothing wrong with it then and there is certainly nothing wrong/illegal about it now and I prefer it to stay that way.

kid chuckles -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/11/2008 12:20:15 PM)
Little to me this is just for the guys that are fairly new to give them some insight as to what is a Park Flyer size plane nothing more or less. You know what will and won't be considered a Park Flyer already it seems so what problem do you see. The Manufacturers might or might not want to put this logo on there planes. That will be up to them. But for me it would surely be a help as i don't kit or scratch build. Then all i have to do if i don't know if a plane i am buying is a Park Flyer size is to look at the box wala. Then if the club has a question of fitting in then all they have to do is look it up when they get home and wala. Your experienced enough to know yourself some are not. This helps the NOTS and does absulutly nothing to you NOTHING. Now if it got to where you had to have a logo from AMA on your plane itself or not fly then that would be another thing entirely and i would be right with you but it is just to identify planes IN THE STORE. Before you come out with a Showtime 50 or something and think it fits into the Park Flyer catagory. That was just an example for you Everybody knows a Showtime will not fly 60mph anywhere anytime rofl. J/K It seems the best idea AMA has had in some time. Then us bottom feeding web crawlers will have some idea that the plane is actually the right size before we buy it and can't take it back. Thank You and have a good weekend fella's. Got to take a trip to MISSISSIPPI today. [:'(]

Acs_guitars -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/11/2008 4:08:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf The problem is simple. If AMA is successful with this campaign all park flyers will be defined as they (the AMA) sees fit. 1/2A will not be generally accepted as park flyers any longer. Those slightly heavier but slower flying models or those slightly faster but lighter models will be precluded as well. Every venue is unique and to define the model for all venues is ludicrous and will have far reaching negative consequences beyond these good intentions (road to hell). I started flying slightly heaver but slower flying models with 1/2 a in parks long before park flying was even a term…there was nothing wrong with it then and there is certainly nothing wrong/illegal about it now and I prefer it to stay that way. I don't think this is meant to be used that way. The AMA is only searching out the definition of what a Park Flier is for membership purposes. If you have the PPP membership (which I think should NOT have been made, but that's another tangent) and you want fly a Sundowner F1 plane, you will have to get the full AMA membership to have insurance coverage and be allowed to fly at a club. ALL AMA clubs require this insurance through the AMA as a liability standard. With out this insurance the club is liable for any incident that may occur and Johny Blockhead would sue both the individuals involved and the club. In effect there would be NO clubs because of this. If you don't like the new rules, drop your AMA membership and go fly on your own, without any coverage at all... You don't have to fly at a club. I think the AMA should go back to the standard $58 a year member ship and drop all the Park Flier membership BS. They are only trying to accomodate those who have a park-sized plane and want to fly at a field (not sure why they want too, parks are everywhere). Evidently most of these people are too cheap to go for the yearly $58 and don't care to learn anything from the great magazine they put out. --- It is all about insurance liability and I for one am happy to have such cheap insurance. I fly park fliers in parks and soccer fields in the evening when there are few people around, there is no need to go to a club for these. All of my .25 size and larger planes fly at the club where they can operate in the larger space needed.

KidEpoxy -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/11/2008 5:42:28 PM)
quote: I fly park fliers in parks and soccer fields in the evening when there are few people around, there is no need to go to a club for these. All of my .25 size and larger planes fly at the club where they can operate in the larger space needed good point. But it illustrates that the .074 and smaller planes might not need that space and fly at the parks & soccerfields. As such, those 1/2A planes have to sit on a shelf next to the boxes with PPP stickes declaring them to be ParkFliers. SchoolyardScale seems not to be a park flier anymore by sticker standards, and will have a hard time selling itself as small field plane if it dont have a sticker while the box next to it does. Ace Simple Series 2/60 OK planes for motors as well as engines

Acs_guitars -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/11/2008 6:03:30 PM)
More so than some sticker they stuck on a box, this is about the PPP Membership. If you are a full AMA member this is of no concern at all as you can fly what you want, anywhere that is safe (as I do). The AMA is not making anything illegal outside of it's membership's outline and cannot physically control what you fly or where, outside of the model field. If you want to fly your 1/2A planes in the park, DO IT. Unless a city ordinance diallows it, you can burn all the fuel you want. But if you are a PPP member and join a club under the PPP guidelines, what you are allowed to fly at the club's field will be limited to what the AMA outlines. Again this is about liability insurance which is an absolute MUST HAVE for an organization in a society where people can and will sue anyone over anything and actually win over rediculous claims.

littlecrankshaf -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/11/2008 6:21:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Acs_guitars It is all about insurance liability and I for one am happy to have such cheap insurance. Ok, now we are getting somewhere (else). You are correct. I prefer to protect myself, as apparently you do, with the insurance I buy for myself BUT I will not live my life expecting/demanding others protect themselves with their purchase of insurances. It should be up to each and every one of us to determine how useful a particular insurance product is for us...for some the AMA insurance is a very good deal while for others it is just about worthless. So it is fine for AMA to offer different level of insurance...if they are in the insurance business BUT they claim they are not BUT this PPP stuff may prove they are. It is another slippery slope we are being put on. This PPP stuff was not thought out well...just another marketing strategy to get more business...I am not the only one that will see it that way. AMA may now be considered a service provider instead of a member’s organization...that would be unfortunate to say the least.

KidEpoxy -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/11/2008 7:43:15 PM)
Guys, lets stick to the sticker in this thread. Do all the classic 1/2A plane boxes have to get a new factory lable/sticker saying they can use a brushless too, so they can have the PPP sticker that keeps them competative to sell? Can the distributer mail a bunch of "Try It Brushless!" lables to put on 1/2A -A glow boxes to meet PPP Sticker reqs. The PPP sticker could be another nail in the coffin of 1/2A, if AMA declares some small planes for parks and ignores the other small planes. "Just look for the logo" implies that you take action depending on if you see the logo or not. No logo = bad. And that aint right or fair to boxes with 20oz 40mph planes that havent had the factory call AMA to say they can go brushless too.

littlecrankshaf -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/11/2008 8:05:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy The PPP sticker could be another nail in the coffin of 1/2A, if AMA declares some small planes for parks and ignores the other small planes. And another nail in the coffin of the essences of the hobby. RTFs are ok for a peak into the hobby but will be soon become less than fulfilling for real hobbyists. Maybe a “free“trial AMA membership certificate should/could have been enclosed in the box of some carefully selected small electrics or 1/2a kits. Just fill it out, send it in or register online and fly...see what it is all about... A win- win scenario for the AMA and model manufactures alike. Then we would have a real possibility of some returning as full AMA members from that throw...much better chances than this PPP stuff will ever have. Would cost us less than this campaign has so far and there would be no need for “defining” what a park flyer is. PPP sucks!

Acs_guitars -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/11/2008 8:38:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf PPP sucks! Now that we see where the other is coming from we can easily agree on this... For all purposses the PPP SUCKS! [:D] The defining of a park flier for insurance purposes is a BAD idea. I have more to say, but I feel this is a good way to leave my standing in the thread. Good Day Gentlemen! [8D]

bdavison -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/11/2008 10:15:34 PM)
No where does it say you cant build your own parkflyer, or keep flying your existing parkflyers under the PPP. You guys %^&$% bricks at everything...sheesh They are not telling AMA members to ban all PPP people that are flying planes that dont have the sticker...the sticker is just a logo to let PPP members know which planes fit within the criteria of a parkflyer. Its similar to those labels on toys that say "suitable for ages 3 and up". Its just a AMA supported sticker that is basically letting people know the plane is "suitable for the PPP" If your plane still fits into the criteria of the PPP program, its perfectly fine to fly it even if it doesnt have the sticker.

Acs_guitars -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/11/2008 10:22:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bdavison No where does it say you cant build your own parkflyer, or keep flying your existing parkflyers under the PPP. You guys %^&$% bricks at everything...sheesh They are not telling AMA members to ban all PPP people that are flying planes that dont have the sticker...the sticker is just a logo to let PPP members know which planes fit within the criteria of a parkflyer. Its similar to those labels on toys that say "suitable for ages 3 and up". Its just a AMA supported sticker that is basically letting people know the plane is "suitable for the PPP" If your plane still fits into the criteria of the PPP program, its perfectly fine to fly it even if it doesnt have the sticker. My point exactly!

STLPilot -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/12/2008 10:33:26 PM)
Great idea by the AMA, actually brilliant. I predict that Hobby Lobby will be the first to exploit this new marketing strategy, on a grand scale, and the rest will follow like lemmings. Especially the Chinese owned and marketed companies like NitroModels, Chinese love these kind of co-op'd marketing techniques of co-branding. The RC market is not only a copycat one, but a predictable one that that. Trust me folks, Hobby Lobby takes it and rolls with it like thunder. It's just the way things happen now. You don't need DC to help get the word out, companies have a vested interest to do it better, and louder, when they can make money via exploitation. AAA is the master of these kind of co-op marketing techniques. Find a tow truck without AAA logo. Find just about anything and anyplace offering AAA discounts and that partner bearing their logo. quote: if I manufactured RTF models I would be more than hesitant to attest that a model I produced could never exceed 60 mph or would never weigh more than 2 pounds. Repairs, mods, and battery choices are infinite and might be construed against me unless I had the purchaser sign some legalese BS document Well I suggest you try manufacturing, done it for years. You'll quickly learn it's not that complicated nor legally binding. Plus the fact the "legal limit" sticker is as legal as prostitution in Vegas, a non binding marketing gimmick. I mean how do you think so many new companies came to life the last 5 years selling "would be/could be" dangerous products?? Simple ... it's called USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. The only thing the manufacturers would be liable for are manufacture defects, and even that is on a limited basis, thanks to the great gift of incorporating. Again smart, very smart move by the AMA. I can now see why $58er's are under threat. Won't be too many years before PPP's are the dominant group. It's just father time doing his thing.

littlecrankshaf -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/14/2008 8:43:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: STLPilot quote: if I manufactured RTF models I would be more than hesitant to attest that a model I produced could never exceed 60 mph or would never weigh more than 2 pounds. Repairs, mods, and battery choices are infinite and might be construed against me unless I had the purchaser sign some legalese BS document Simple ... it''s called USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. The only thing the manufacturers would be liable for are manufacture defects, and even that is on a limited basis, thanks to the great gift of incorporating. stl But that doesn''t answer the liability issues...what AMA''s insurance is primarily about...you know "Use at other''s risk of injury". You seem to forget (or spin), this logo is more about qualifying risk of injury to others than the USER. That is much different than the simpleton picture you paint. Keep pitching…one day you might get one right. [;)]

kid chuckles -> RE: park pilot legal logo (4/14/2008 12:31:56 PM)
KE i think if it has a glow motor it says so on the box most times. That in itself is what you need to look at although it is in the catagory of Park Flyer in weight and scale it has a glow motor. The Park planes do not. Sorry for the guys that fly them but that is just the way the book reads at this time. I think so get a elec. conversion and WALA. rofl (VIOLA) was just waiting to spell correctly lol.

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