RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by Metal-morphous   
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Warbirds and Warplanes >> RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by Metal-morphous
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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/6/2008 2:18 PM   
at-6 texan



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Status: offline 		I think the reason is to identify themselves during the war in Europe .... but I'm not sure .....

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/6/2008 3:28 PM   
Chad Veich



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ORIGINAL: Metalmorphous

More trivia,

For what reason did the 8th air force have a white band painted on the nose as seen in the picture, and kept the aluminum in front of the white band polished?




That was to make the aircraft appear as though it was an unarmed "droop snoot" P-38 and draw the enemy into a fight.

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/6/2008 3:50 PM   
lgarber


 

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Status: offline 		Yup. Make it look like a droop-snoot to start a fight.

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/6/2008 5:23 PM   
Metalmorphous



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Status: offline 		Wow you guys are good

Because the P-38 has such a distinctive shape, enemy aircraft did not like go head to head with a lightning un less it was an unarmed so our boys turned the tables on them buy making it look like the unarmed version known as the droop snoot.

< Message edited by Metalmorphous -- 11/6/2008 5:24 PM >

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/6/2008 5:25 PM   
at-6 texan



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Status: offline 		now i understood!!fight head to head!

< Message edited by at-6 texan -- 11/6/2008 5:30 PM >

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/6/2008 10:07 PM   
slowglowflyer


 

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Status: offline 		I can just see the expression on the zero pilot who tries to pounce on an "unarmed" p-38 and then realize his mistake. HaHaHa

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/7/2008 3:22 PM   
longeze



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Status: online 		So, you think your smart!
How many know the purpose of this inlet shown in the circle?


Glenn

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/10/2008 2:58 PM   
Metalmorphous



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Status: offline 		Hey Glenn, I think you might of stumped everyone, all I here is crickets
I think the word intercooler might help

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/10/2008 6:08 PM   
longeze



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Status: online 		the word is interheater. Its was the cockpit heater air inlet. Air passed through a chamber in around the exhaust manifolds to provide cockpit heat.

Glenn

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/10/2008 8:40 PM   
Metalmorphous



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Status: offline 		Now you got me on that one. I thought it was the intercooler inlet as shown in the picture... Guess I better do more reading




Ron

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/10/2008 10:41 PM   
longeze



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Status: online 		Ron, the intercooler is shown at #219 . Check out theses breakdowns

Glenn

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/10/2008 10:47 PM   
longeze



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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/11/2008 7:26 AM   
at-6 texan



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Status: offline 		Hi Ron i can help you look the photos!->

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/11/2008 8:09 PM   
Metalmorphous



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Status: offline 		Thanks for posting the pictures, make this a little more clear. I now see how the snorkel would drive the outside air over the hot pipes and feed into the cockpit.


I'm working on the saddles and went with a sheet of wax paper only because the area was so flat I don’t think the paper will move or wrinkle. Once I had the wax paper in place I media blasted the saddles and cleaned them with pre-cleano. I mix up a batch of West System epoxy with micro balloons, I had to sacrifice weight for strength in this area. As you can see in the pictures the epoxy mix oozed out and made a nice tight fit. The epoxy has to cure over night, once cured I will remove the excess epoxy and the saddles will be complete.

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< Message edited by Metalmorphous -- 11/11/2008 8:10 PM >

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/14/2008 2:53 PM   
Metalmorphous



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Status: offline 		I let the epoxy cure for 2 days and yesterday I wanted to remove the booms and see how the saddles look. I removed the wing bolts and figured that with the wax paper the booms should just fall off,,,,,,,,, This was not so.... A small bead of sweet started to form on my forehead It seems a very small amount of the West system got into the mounting holes and would not let go So with 2 guys holding down the center section and me working the boom, I was able to break the bond between the center section and the booms with NO damage. Once I got things apart I looked to see how much epoxy was holding thing together. It was an area about the size of a pea on 3 of the 4 mounting holes. Hard to believe that such a small area could hold that good. Next time I would apply some grease to the areas around the mounting holes, this would have taken care of this problem. After my knees stop shaking I cleaned up the saddles and mounted them back to the centersection. As you can see in the picture its a perfect fit. Now I can get back to the body work and get this bird ready to be aluminum plated

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< Message edited by Metalmorphous -- 11/14/2008 2:54 PM >

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/14/2008 3:00 PM   
Scotsman


 

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Status: online 		Should we mail you a new pair of underwear, or are you working commando now?......... I have rolled clay or play-doh into an 1/8" diameter "snake" and wrapped that around the mounting holes to act as a dam to seal out the epoxy slurry. Glad you could get them apart, it is no fun to go digging and prying and listen to all the cracks and pops while separating the parts.

Scot

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/15/2008 10:32 AM   
TomCrump



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Status: offline 		Glad that it "worked out" for you, Ron. I had a similar instance, when working on my Stuka.

See. You're not the only one.

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/15/2008 1:48 PM   
Metalmorphous



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Status: offline 		Scott you gave a real good description on how things sounded when it released from the center section ( my shorts were in jeopardy) and once it came free . .I though I was going to have another few hours of repair. After I examined the culprit and saw that the sound was the epoxy not the structure, I knew my shorts would last until the next hurtle The clay is another great idea and would help save others from a major hang up.

Tom I wasn’t going to add my mishap to this thread but then I thought how I have read about other people making small mistakes and how I learned from there experiences so I changed my mind and put into print for others to say,,, WOW did he make a major blunder but better him than me
Thanks for letting me know that your Stuka build was not just a walk in the park, if my build looks half as good as that stuka of yours I will be very pleased.

I did notice that once I re assemabled the center section how sturdy this thing got even with the wing bolts loose. I would recommend this mod. to anyone building a glass boom P-38 and again I have to give the credit to Scott for letting me know about it.





< Message edited by Metalmorphous -- 11/15/2008 1:56 PM >

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/21/2008 2:10 PM   
Metalmorphous



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Status: offline 		I know you guys haven’t seen much progress from me lately but I'm just getting over the shakes from the center section dilemma

Now that most of the major building is finished it time to concentrate on the fitment. Because the Ziroli P-38 doesn’t have the booms and stab permanently mounted together, it takes some work to get a nice tight fit. Because I am going with polished aluminum you will be able to see every flaw from 10 feet. I know if I go with a grained or dulled finish on the aluminum it would not only be easier but it can hide a lot of sins. But once its compleated it will be worth all the efforts. So I have to make sure all the seams are the same size as a panel line. There are ALOT of these I have to work on. The first area I had to attend to was where the turbo area meets the boom. The left one look good and needed very little filler to get them the same height but the right one needed about 1/8 inch of filler. The superfil product was perfect for this because of its light weight and how nice it can be feathered out. I'm now working on the fillets, again there are a lot of these. Anywhere the wing meets the boom or the wing meets the fuselage a fillet was added. All of them have to be built up and again the superfil product is perfect for this. The picture of the nose area shows how I got most of the seam looking like a panel line but if you look at the bottom area you will note the seam gets a little wide. If I aluminum plate this the way it is the seam would look out of scale so I still have to add filler to this. I will use body filler for this because only a small amount is necessary, once the seam is closed off tight I then sand back the edge to get the look of a panel line. This is where taking my time on the balsa will pay off. I took my time on sheeting the nose area and keeping all the edges straight, this made it easy to make the seam look no different than the panel lines I will be adding after I have aluminum plated the Lightning. The body work is only roughed out and I applied a thin coat of primer so I can see what things look like.


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< Message edited by Metalmorphous -- 11/21/2008 2:18 PM >

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/21/2008 7:25 PM   
lgarber


 

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Status: offline 		Looking good Ron!!Thought maybe you fell down and couldn't get up! Keeping an eye on your build is helping me on mine.
I look forward to your aluminom-'ating' !
Linn

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/22/2008 5:56 PM   
langerl


 

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Status: offline 		Hello Ron,
I am enjoying your build thread. Your metal cote stuff is still one of the finest finishing techniques in the hobby; if only it were more do-it-yourself we'd all be doing it.
Anyway to the point of this post. The close-up you gave of the wing and saddle fit (Pic 4) reminded me to pass along this caution. Since you said you were going to keep the booms removable from the wing, I'd strongly recommend you reinforce the boom interior exactly where the training edge of the wing meets the boom. Almost every P38 driver I've seen has told me that they have developed a stress crack on both booms right where the corner of the boom saddle and wing trailing edge meet. A carbon fiber reinforcement "L" bracket laminated to the boom interior at the saddle corner seems to do the trick.
Luckily, my Robart P38 is nearly a single piece of f/g; booms and wing are already one piece, so I don't have this problem (I hope....).

I just wanted to be sure you don't need to repair your lovely finish in the near future.

Just thought you'd like to know....

Regards,
langerl

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/24/2008 9:09 PM   
Metalmorphous



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Status: offline 		Linn I'm still here just needed to catch my breath. I will get the pictures and article for you that we talked about today and post them here.

Langerl- I thought I saw an article awhile back on a Z P-38 that had developed cracks in the areas you noted. I wasn’t sure if it was a problem with the glass booms or if it was a builder’s error but its sounds like cheap insurance for me to add the reinforement. Thank you for the advice and I will post some pictures of the upgrade when I get it done.


I have attached pictures of the steps I took to get the trailing edge of a fillet completed. Since I now have the Yellow P-38 back in my position again, I have been able to use it to help get some of the detail work right. I like how all the edges are finished on the Yellow product and I using this as my guide on the Ziroli. The wing fillets have a nice smooth transition and trail off in a half round configuration. I first apply one layer of glass and keep the shape of the wing to fuse the same, then once the curing process starts I applied a layer of body filler. Let this cure over night and with the correct size drum sander I rough out the half circle of the fillet. Using the drum sander helps keep both sides the same. Next I will sand smooth.


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< Message edited by Metalmorphous -- 11/24/2008 9:19 PM >

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/25/2008 9:52 PM   
Metalmorphous



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Status: offline 		Here is what it looks like roughed out with some primer applied so we can see how things fit. The parting line is starting to look good and I am very pleased with the flair on the fillet. Now making one fillet is easy but remember that I have TWO booms so every thing gets done again and they have to be the same but mirrored. I will accomplish this with nothing more than a paper template.

Ron


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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/26/2008 1:41 PM   
rich10


 

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Status: offline 		Ron I haven’t been to Metal-Morphous in awhile and I stopped in yesterday but you were not in, but I did talk to Joe and saw the P-38...WOW!! it looks beautiful and its only in primer. I can’t wait to see it morphed in aluminum. From what I could see it looks like it might be getting very close getting metalized. Joe said you finished the top side but still had some work to do to the bottom and then it needs a few more prep steps before the aluminum is applied. I will try to stop in again before the holiday is over.

Rich

PS
I didn't see the yellow P-38 you bought back from me, did you sell it already?


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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 11/26/2008 2:39 PM   
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Status: offline 		Ron, what are you have in mind to cover the holes from the fasteners of the booms? Pretty good idea to keep the booms detachable, more room for maintenance. I even think to make the firewall removable, like on my TF Jug. It is so much easier when the firewall is off - the fuse is wide open...

happy landings
G-Pete

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