RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by Metal-morphous  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Warbirds and Warplanes >> RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by Metal-morphous
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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 4/25/2008 2:09:48 PM   
F86_SABRE


 

Posts: 949
Joined: 2/4/2002
From: Malta, MALTA
Status: offline 		Ron,

Thanks for the reply.
Presumably the outside part you will be molding will be the outer frame. Consequently, shouldn't the masking have been placed on the outside rather then the inside of the canopy since you will be molding the outer frame (which will be on top of the canopy you are holding)?
I am asking this because I wish to make a similar process on a much larger canopy than the one you are holding. Infact, I was trying to find a tape which would have covered the canopy in one go...or at least an impervious stretch material. However, the tape solution seems to be easiest and least expensive.....in short...practical!

Thanks again for your explanation

Reuben

(in reply to Metalmorphous)
       Post #: 26

RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 4/25/2008 3:38:22 PM   
Metalmorphous



Posts: 657
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Wallingford, CT, USA
Status: offline 		Reuben the plaster is applied directly to the outside unmasked clear canopy, this way you get all the details and the fabricated fiberglass frame will fit (after trimming) to the clear canopy supplied but Ziroli like a glove



This is a picture of my new frame that has been roughed out and a trial fit on the clear canopy. I like to leave at least 3/16 extra material so I can get a good fit and I have found its always better to trim off more than have to add more fiberglass because I cut too much. At this point I need to SLOW down and trim very slowly as not to remove or damage some of the very small cross bars.


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< Message edited by Metalmorphous -- 4/25/2008 3:42:27 PM >

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 4/25/2008 5:15:45 PM   
F86_SABRE


 

Posts: 949
Joined: 2/4/2002
From: Malta, MALTA
Status: offline 		Right. Next question (sorry )
Won't the plaster damage/scratch the top surface of the plastic canopy since it is not taped? I dont know what kind of plaster you are applying (plaster of paris?) but from experience the plaster of paris does heat up which might deform the plastic especially if a thick wall is applied.

Thanks again.

Reuben

(in reply to Metalmorphous)
       Post #: 28

RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by... - 4/25/2008 5:56:39 PM   
Metalmorphous



Posts: 657
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Wallingford, CT, USA
Status: offline 		Reuben -Good question, I didn't think to address the heat issue. The clear platic can take some heat without distorting but to be on the safe side I applied a thin 1/4 inch or so of plaster with a 2 inch paint brush, then let that set up for about 15 to 20 mins and I check the temp by placing my hand on it, if it should get too hot I would just spray on some water to cool it. After the 15 min. set up I applied the paper towel soaked in plaster, again not too thick, 15 min. later more plater until the hard shell is about 1/2 to 3/4 inch thick, again I cooled it with a spray of water, then let it air dry for 12 hours or more and pop out the plug. The picture of my clear canopy above was taken after the mold making process was completed, no damage at all, looks like it just came out of the box. And please... ask any questions you like, I too have always found this site helpful and I glad to be of help.

R%on

< Message edited by Metalmorphous -- 4/25/2008 9:24:22 PM >

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by... - 4/25/2008 8:18:29 PM   
F86_SABRE


 

Posts: 949
Joined: 2/4/2002
From: Malta, MALTA
Status: offline 		Many thanks for your explanation. Sorry for briefly hijacking your thread for a while . So now I will let you go on with the show.
I look forward to see the metal morphosing part. That always intrigued me.

Ron...thanks ever so much.

Regards

Reuben

(in reply to Metalmorphous)
       Post #: 30

RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by... - 4/28/2008 2:05:49 PM   
Metalmorphous



Posts: 657
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Wallingford, CT, USA
Status: offline 		I only had a chance to do a little more trimming, at this point I am using the clear canopies registration points to get the frame to sit perfectly. I know it sounds like a lot of work when it would have been alot easier to just aluminum plate the clear canopy but once I saw how nice a separate frame looked on the Yellow Lightning I knew this was the only way for me In this picture you can see that I now have filed, ground, cut and sanded the frame down but still left between 1/8 to 1/16 of an inch extra material. I have done this so I can do a finial fit and make sure that the new frame will rest right over the frame work that is embossed on the clear canopy, once this is confirmed I am going to heat the frame up with a heat gun and pull it tight over the canopy, doing this will soften the glass and the frame will start to conform to its new home. I will post more pictures of that later.

Ron


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< Message edited by Metalmorphous -- 4/28/2008 4:28:23 PM >

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by... - 4/29/2008 2:32:39 PM   
Metalmorphous



Posts: 657
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Wallingford, CT, USA
Status: offline 		Well we are into our busy season but I did get a chance to applied a 2 part primer to the frame so I can see the edges better. At this stage I am just using a very fine file and sand paper to slowly get the edges of the frame straight and in the exact location they need to be. I still have to stretch the frame out but not until the sizing of the frame is completed. I can also start adding some of the details but the rivets will be added after I aluminum plate it with out process. Just a small note, there are lots of way to make a frame like this and one of the advantages of doing it this way is the smoothness of the glass is just great. Once the primmer was applied I expected to see some defects like pinholes, but because the mold is set upside down the air bubbles move away from the outer frame which becomes the area you see once its pulled from the mold. It just saves some time filling the defects later on.

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< Message edited by Metalmorphous -- 4/29/2008 2:34:14 PM >

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by... - 4/29/2008 6:33:12 PM   
rich10


 

Posts: 20
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: , CT, USA
Status: offline 		Wow!! That looks great!! I was just wondering what you mean by "stretching the fiberglass" and why do you have to do this?

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       Post #: 33

RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by... - 4/30/2008 2:06:03 PM   
Metalmorphous



Posts: 657
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Wallingford, CT, USA
Status: offline 		Rich in the second to the last picture you will notice that the top window support does not touch the clear canopy, its because the frame is somewhat a tight fit against it so what I have done is lined up each support on the clear canopy then when they all register I will heat up the frame and pull it tight and let it cool in place. Fiberglass like all other plastics does not have a memory like metal and will pretty much go where you want it and will hold that position along as it is supported. I have found the thinner the fiberglass the more it will move without stressing.

Here is a picture I just took that show how high the frame is sitting. I will take another picture after I have warmed it up and pulled it into place.
The primer help show some of the details I have added, I will add panel separation lines after its been aluminum plated along with rivet and fastener details. A friend and fellow modeler drilled and added very small screws to his BVM F86 canopy and I think I would like to go this route with mine. I know it over kill but that’s the fun of it

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< Message edited by Metalmorphous -- 4/30/2008 2:07:41 PM >

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by... - 5/1/2008 12:02:50 AM   
JSZ


 

Posts: 48
Joined: 3/28/2002
From: Laurel, MD, USA
Status: offline 		Pretty cool stuff Ron, very nice! I have a couple extra ABS turbos from Ziroli that I'm going to try the same as what you did on yours for expierence.

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 5/2/2008 2:08:18 PM   
Metalmorphous



Posts: 657
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Wallingford, CT, USA
Status: offline 		Johnny I find working on the fine details to be one of the most rewarding aspects of the build process, my advise is just take your time and enjoy what your doing.


I have now warmed up the frame with a heat gun before pulled it over the clear canopy as tight as I can get it, then I secured it with masking tape so it can cool in place. The frame fit prefect!! I'm very pleased with the out come and look forward to getting it aluminum plated and the rest of the details addded but that will have to wait untill the rest of the plane is built. After I have built the wood part of the plane that the canopy will be attached toI will trim the canopy and the new frame to fit. I still have not received my laser wood parts yet but in the next few days I will be getting the build area ready.

Ron


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< Message edited by Metalmorphous -- 5/2/2008 2:12:31 PM >

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by... - 5/2/2008 2:26:31 PM   
Scotsman


 

Posts: 79
Joined: 3/19/2004
From: Westford, MA, USA
Status: offline 		Ron,
Who did you order your laser cut kit from? I put one of these together through last Fall and Winter and found a few things that may help if it is the same kit. Nothing major, but things that can probably make life a little easier. The P-38 is a tough kit to make up unless you have built one. There are a lot of pieces that don't look much like airplane parts until you get them all glued together. It is a fun airplane to build, but there are no "easy" steps. Everything has a little challenge here and there to keep the whole airframe straight and true. You going to add Fowler flaps?
Scot

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       Post #: 37

RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 5/3/2008 3:52:16 AM   
JSZ


 

Posts: 48
Joined: 3/28/2002
From: Laurel, MD, USA
Status: offline 		Ron, how do you intend on securing the frame to the canopy and will you be adding detail on the inside of the frame?

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       Post #: 38

RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 5/3/2008 1:57:46 PM   
Metalmorphous



Posts: 657
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Wallingford, CT, USA
Status: offline 		Scott, I have been doing alot of research on the Ziroli for about 2 years and have followed just about every Lightning build I could find, RCU names like longeze, Paperairplanes, Flydoc and GPakoz. I also have Nick himself just a phone call away and if there is one thing I have learned from all of this is that the RCU forum is GREAT. That’s why I have started this thread I know I am going to need lots of advice on this project to get it to the caliber that I would like. Please feel free to give your thoughts on any part of my build. I am not one of those builders that thinks he has it all figured out, I know that there are lots of other builders and modelers that have a better and easier way to do it and hope that they chime in. So PLEASE give me your input on how I can make this the best plane to leave this shop up to date[)]
Scott I am going with fowler flaps and hidden controls. The flaps design is from Gpakoz's thread and the controls are a modified version on what I saw on Simparfitt’s thread.


John - I will be applying alot more details to the canopy frame once its been aluminum plated and will not only glue it in place but I'm going to use a friends method to add just a little more kick to the canopy. I have attached a picture of Greg's method. The picture is of his BVM F-86 that we aluminum plated for him, he then did all his own detailing and painting work. I will be doing something along this look, I have found very small screws that are to scale and will drill and recesses them into the frame and canopy, then nut them from inside. The look is just fantastic.


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< Message edited by Metalmorphous -- 5/3/2008 8:06:36 PM >

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